|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Nov 2, 2012 11:27:18 GMT
Different pronunciation? Depends on people's accent how different that pronunciation is and I dare say that if you are not familiar with a specific accent you might not detect any difference despite someone saying these words.
Seriously? When did you last get a written invite to tea, or in fact when did anyone you know receive such an invite?
"As long as when the time comes that you meet the Queen and she invites you for tea you understand that she means you'll be getting a beverage, perhaps some cucumber sandwiches and cake in late afternoon, then there's not actually a problem if you use it with your Ma and Pa to mean something different."
I am sure you are trying to be glib and funny while making your point here, but you instead come of as high-handed and extremely condescending.
Andy
|
|
Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 5,932
|
Post by Stomski on Nov 2, 2012 11:40:47 GMT
Pardon, I can't hear you up here on my high horse! There's one way to solve this that I think we can agree on - what word does The Rock use to refer to his evening meal?
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Nov 2, 2012 11:42:44 GMT
Trick question, as we all know that the Rock likes Pie in the evening.
Andy
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 2, 2012 12:27:04 GMT
cob /0kɒb/ noun¹. LME. [ORIGIN Origin unkn.]
► I With the notion ‘big’, ‘stout’. 1 A great man, a leading man. Now dial. LME. ▸ †b A wealthy man, a miser. M16–L17.
2 A male swan. Also cob-swan. LME.
3 A sturdy short-legged riding horse. E19.
► II With the notion ‘rounded’. 4 ▸ a In full cobnut. A large kind of hazelnut; (as cobnut(s)), any of various children's games using nuts. M16. ▸ b In full cob-loaf. A round loaf of bread. E17. ▸ c In full (now dial.) cob-coal. A large roundish piece of coal. E19. ▸ d A testicle. Usu. in pl. dial. E19. ▸ e A (baked apple) dumpling. dial. L19.
5 â–¸ a A small stack of hay or corn. dial. E17. â–¸ b A bunch or knot of hair; a chignon. M19.
6 gen. A lump or heap of. dial. L19.
► III With the notion ‘head’, ‘top’. †7 ▸ a The head of a (red) herring. L16–M17. ▸ b In pl. Young herring. Scot. L19.
8 = corncob 1. L17.
corn on the cob maize cooked and eaten attached to the cob.
9 The seeding head of wheat, clover, etc. dial. M19.
Comb.: cob coal: see sense 4c above; cob-iron (a) in pl. (hist.), the irons supporting a spit; (b) an andiron; cob-loaf: see sense 4b above; cob-meal US corncobs ground down; cobnut(s): see sense 4a above; cob pipe = corncob 2.
Martin
|
|
Hero
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
King of RULES!
Everything Rules
Posts: 7,476
|
Post by Hero on Nov 2, 2012 15:06:08 GMT
Dinner RULES
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Nov 7, 2012 0:54:54 GMT
Over on my side of the pond, the term changes regionally. Generally, it goes like this:
Breakfast Brunch Lunch/Dinner Afternoon Snack (No official name) Dinner/Supper Midnight Snack
And Taco Bell would have you believe in "Fourth Meal."
Brunch, and the afternoon and latenight snakes are optional. Americans eat like hobbits. Though Brunch is something I've never understood the concept of. But then, I don't eat breakfast, either.
Dinner and Supper are generally interchangeable. I grew up calling it supper. But in the north, it's more common to call it Dinner. Though in the deep south, the old timers refer to lunch as dinner, which would mean the three meals are Breakfast, Dinner, and Supper.
It's safe to say we don't have a teatime. Although iced sweet tea is huge in the south. But oddly enough, it's surprisingly unknown outside of the south. I talk to northerners all the time who have no concept of sweettea, even though they put sugar in their tea and make it themselves tableside. >_<
This is an interesting thread! I'm sorry I haven't seen it earlier! I love learning about regional differences, especially within the same basic language.
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 7, 2012 8:15:49 GMT
Did the Americans have Teatime before Boston?
|
|
|
Post by duffism1981 on Nov 7, 2012 17:38:36 GMT
I eat dinner. I drink tea.
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Nov 7, 2012 23:35:31 GMT
Did the Americans have Teatime before Boston? Maybe. But I honestly don't know.
|
|
|
Post by Marc Graham on Nov 8, 2012 8:16:43 GMT
Iced Tea is still strangely popular stateside, maybe its mostly a New England thing - but there is a cocktail called Long Island Iced Tea. Of course a major difference is whereas we'd call breaks Tea Break - I found my stateside colleagues would have coffee breaks.
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Nov 8, 2012 15:35:59 GMT
Cwarfee!
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 8, 2012 17:17:05 GMT
|
|
|
Post by legios on Nov 8, 2012 21:18:08 GMT
Bravo sir, Bravo.
Have some Karma.
Karl
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Nov 8, 2012 22:04:51 GMT
Iced Tea is still strangely popular stateside, maybe its mostly a New England thing - but there is a cocktail called Long Island Iced Tea. Of course a major difference is whereas we'd call breaks Tea Break - I found my stateside colleagues would have coffee breaks. Yeah, it's rare for anyone here to drink hot tea. I myself do not like any drink to be hot. But then, I'm a very hot-natured person and have an aversion to heat. Something I've noticed, a difference between america and europe. Americans like their coffee hot and tea iced. Europeans like their coffee iced, and tea hot. As for Long Island Iceteas... yeah, it's an alcoholic drink here. I've never head one because I don't drink alcohol. it's a very popular ladies drink nationwide, it just originated (supossedly) in Long Island. So it's not just a new england drink.
|
|
|
Post by Marc Graham on Nov 9, 2012 19:30:04 GMT
Well - Northern Europeans definitely prefer coffee hot, I've tried iced coffee - but only in the US! Some of France/Italy definitely prefer hot coffee, but I'm not sure about Southern Spain and elsewhere. I guess a lot of trends in the US spread quite far and broad, as long as they are better than McDonalds I don't think that's a bad thing!
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Nov 9, 2012 23:06:49 GMT
McDonalds is indeed pretty nasty (But their french fries are soooooooo gooooooood). But I've seen some programs about how american fast food chains adapt to foriegn markets. And I have to say, some of the stuff McDonalds does in india and the middle east looks and sounds *really* good.
And I did not know that about coffee. I'd always heard that europeans prefer it iced. Because that's supossed to be where we got the idea for our iced coffee from.
Shoulda figured it's all starbucks conspiracy, maaan.
|
|
Cullen
Empty
Cat Stabber
Posts: 1,104
|
Post by Cullen on Nov 11, 2012 21:08:54 GMT
Stom, even in a technical document, context is everything. I (and just about everyone in the North East of England) use tea and dinner interchangably. I can't recall a single incident where I or anyone else has confused a meal with having a beverage - it always makes sense in the context it is used. Plus most people here would prefix 'tea' with 'cup of'. 'Fancy come round for your tea tonight' = an invitation to a meal. 'Tea?' while someone waves a mug at you = they are offering you a drink. If I wanted to be pedantic I find your references to 'tea' ambiguous. Do you mean the drink or the leaves from which the drink is brewed. You should be more precise! My lack of education means I can't understand sentences unless they provide all the context. You'll also find you use many colloquialisms like this that people from other backgrounds find odd, whether they are just from down the road or from thousands of miles away. Language isn't something you can tie down and elimate all ambiguity from.
|
|
Jim
Thunderjet
Micromaster Backside Monitor
Now in glorious Ultra HD 4K
Posts: 4,608
|
Post by Jim on Nov 16, 2012 9:22:43 GMT
|
|
Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 5,932
|
Post by Stomski on Nov 16, 2012 11:40:47 GMT
Cullen - You're proving my latter point.
I wouldn't dream of saying to someone from outside the Bristol area "where's Asdals to?" as you wouldn't have a clue that I meant "Please could you direct me the nearest Asda shop?". This s the context of which you speak - but it would appear that some people are prepared to ignore context and speak in way that is specific to their personal community as if it should be accepted by everybody.
We have a set of universal rules for us to communicate effectively with everybody. To not use these rules for reasons of laziness and ignorance is a bad thing in some cases. (Laziness can at times promote good evolution of language, making the accepted communication rules more efficient).
I'm not saying that anyone here is lazy or ignorant as in the specific case of tea vs dinner the evolution of the word tea stems back generations such that tea is now accepted to mean an evening meal.
I'm highlighting a wider problem with the dumbing down of language and people using words inappropriately to use different meanings to how they should. Something which occurred with the word tea before we were all born. No one has argued against the fact that the word has evolved to mean an evening meal despite it's original meaning.
There were no doubt already words to mean the evening meal, why did this evolution take place? Why were people using the word tea?
|
|
|
Post by Toph on Nov 16, 2012 19:31:51 GMT
I have to say that I feel this is one of the most interesting threads I've read, across all the boards I attend. I have an inherrent facination with variations of languages, and how supossedly one language can become so different across all the countries that speak it. How different words take on different meanings in different regions. If you took down global communications and severed everyone's ability to cross communicate... US, UK, South African, and Austrailian english would probably become incompatable within a hundred years.
Something someone mentioned earlier I don't know why I never commented on. Backtracked a bit to find and didn't quite spot it (didn't look very hard, I'll admit). But someone mentioned Coffee Breaks. Was thinking about this, and wondered why I didn't put coffee break in my breakdowns of common american terms for meals/snacks. Then I realized, this would be fairly confuising. In my personal experience, Coffee Break is used more to announce a 15 minute break during a work shift, more than anything else. Usually people drink coffee or eat a candybar for an energy boost. But it's not really a specific meal/snack time event. More so, I've never personally heard anyone use the term coffee break. Usually everyone just calls it break time, or "going on break." The only time I can recall hearing Coffee Break used is on TV, or in movies. But I can see how someone might equate it with an american version of tea time, especially given that the american obcession with coffee seems to be on par with the brittish obcession with tea.
Especially the butchering the language is receiving thanks to texting and twitter. Worse yet is when this butchering spills over onto message boards.
|
|
|
Post by Marc Graham on Nov 17, 2012 8:35:35 GMT
I love to say "I think you should go for coffee" quite fast so it sounds a bit rude, but that's just me. At work if someone invites me for tea I'll pop upstairs and have some water and a chat. Breaks are awesome, tea is optional.
|
|
|
Post by KnightBeat on Nov 17, 2012 18:43:35 GMT
We have a set of universal rules for us to communicate effectively with everybody. To not use these rules for reasons of laziness and ignorance is a bad thing in some cases. Where are these universal rules of which you speak?
|
|
|
Post by KnightBeat on Nov 17, 2012 18:54:07 GMT
Interesting discussion. When I were a lad (queue hovis style montage of a small child walking up hills in strange 19th century garb), meals were called the following:
Breakfast Lunch (11am-ish) - a snack provided in nursery school. I can't recall it being mentioned at home Dinner (around 12 or 1pm) Tea (around 5 or 6pm) Supper (an optional meal around 9 or 10pm, if tea had been missed/it wasn't sufficient)
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Nov 17, 2012 19:03:45 GMT
Breakfast Lunch Tea Supper
And one goes out to dinner.
That's how Grandad did it, that's how pappy does it, and it's worked pretty well so far.
|
|
|
Post by legios on Nov 17, 2012 23:22:31 GMT
There were no doubt already words to mean the evening meal, why did this evolution take place? Why were people using the word tea? Linguistic Drift. Words start out with one meaning and end up with another - sometimes a related one, sometimes one only tangentially connected. (caveat, I am not a linguist or other specialist in this field, just someone who has known some). Words are simply symbols which happen to convey particular meanings through a social consensus. If that social consensus shifts then then meaning conveyed by the pattern of sounds which forms that word will change. It is a result of the way that human communication operates. A feature if you will, rather than a bug. (There's another good example - bug, meaning an insect insect. Attributed to failures in a computer program due to the possibly apochryfal story about a fried moth in an early computer. Few people know the reason for the derivation but the term gets used for hardware and software failures nevertheless. The semantic content of the word has evolved due to a change in the consensus of what it means). Karl
|
|
Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 5,932
|
Post by Stomski on Nov 19, 2012 11:15:18 GMT
Yes, and I'm arguing that linguistic drift doesn't always happen to the benefit of communication. The use of the word tea to mean an evening meal does not benefit the language in my opinion as this has introduced ambiguity as to the time of the meal.
However, I'd rather have it this way than us all turn into Vulcans.
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Dec 29, 2016 10:09:43 GMT
Interesting.
-Ralph
|
|
|
Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 29, 2016 10:34:01 GMT
Mrs M confirms the evening meal to be called 'tea'.
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 29, 2016 10:37:59 GMT
It might be called that in the House of M but it's wrong!
You don't go out for tea, you go out for Dinner!
|
|
|
Post by Pinwig on Dec 29, 2016 11:13:10 GMT
You'll never settle this one. It's bound up in regional and class differences which have evolved over time, so no single definition will work.
You might be able to compromise if you separate afternoon tea from high tea - afternoon tea being effectively an upper class mid-afternoon snack to fill the gap between luncheon and dinner, and high tea being a more substantial early evening meal for the Victorian working classes derived from that. Drinking tea is a fundamental part of both, but high tea comes around 6pm by necessity and as such in modern parlance evolved into what some people now call their evening meal.
|
|