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Post by Toph on Sept 5, 2015 21:42:36 GMT
Transmissions is still slowly passing out bits of info from their unknown contact on this line. There's been discussion several times about how the size class definitions seem to be unclear, and that maybe the size class currently called Voyager will be relabelled as Deluxe for Titan Wars. If Voyagers are the new Deluxes that will drive folk mental ah ha. -Ralph Voyagers are the new deluxes Right is the new left Up is down Orphan is the new Black Cats and dogs, living together! It's a world gone mad!!! That bit doesn't make sense. A new name is one thing, but reusing the old ones sounds like this info has got confused somewhere. Be interesting to see if any of this turns out to be true. The characters that have been named seem like a really eclectic bunch. It's bad enough that Legends has been used for like, multiple size classes. Legends of Cybertron which became Legion. That made since, since they're miniature versions of normal sized transformers. Legion as a name for that class doesn't make sense. For the same reason. Then they create a new class which is halfway between legend/legion, and scouts. And called it Commander. Which helps tie in with the legion, and together both make sense. Then they separate commanders from legions, split them among two different lines, and rename Commander class to Legend. Which makes NO sense at all. But this is also the same company which decided Leader is a perfect name for the biggest main size class, where very few actual leaders genuinely belong in it. What was wrong with bringing back the name Basic as the new name for the Commander class? What was wrong with keeping Super as the name for leader? Honestly I feel that if they start doing a huge restructuring of their pricepoint system, and modernize it for todays prices, they lost the opportunity when they failed to do so post DotM. •Basic- This class would be exactly the same as the current legends. Carded. Characters like Rattrap, bumblebee and swerve belong here •Deluxe- Scouts, that are upgraded a touch. They come with a weapon or accessory that helps justify their higher pricepoint. Carded. Is the backbone of the line. Characters like Tarantulas and Prowl belong here. •Mega- deluxes, as they were before the downgrade, and carrying a higher pricepoint. Carded. No longer the backbone of the line. Characters like BW Inferno and Movie Ironhide belong here. •Voyager- pretty much the same as is. •Ultra- bring this back instead of Leader. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 6, 2015 6:47:05 GMT
I like that CJ, that's more or less how'd I'd like it.
Where did 'Voyager' come from as a size class name? Odd name.
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Post by Toph on Sept 6, 2015 16:29:55 GMT
I think Voyager came into play during Energon?
Beast Wars established the standard pricepoint system, which had never existed before.
Basic- $5
Deluxe- $10
Mega- $15
Ultra- $20
They introduced Super with Optimal Optimus, and Supreme with Supreme Cheetor and Air Attack Optimus Primal.
The prices changed for everything except Deluxe, which stayed $10 until only the last few years.
They dropped these names during Armada, and introduced
Mini-con
Super-con
Max-con- these were a rather large bump up from the oldschool megas. They're much more like BW Ultras.
Giga-con
Super Base.
This proved unpopular and nonsensical. So with Energon they tried again, with worse results. (So bad I actually wasn't aware of this)
Energon
Combat
Mega-combat
Commanders
Leaders
After this, they went back to something resembling the old system for Cybertron:
Legends of Cybertron
Minicons (the minicon twopacks)
Scouts
Deluxe
Voyager
Ultra
Leader
Supreme
Future lines dropped "of Cybertron" and only called the class legends.
Also dropped the minicon twopacks.
Prime renamed Legends to Cyberverse Legion, and introduced Cyberverse Commanders (halfway between scouts and legends).
And then modern Generations renamed Cyb Commanders to Legends.
And that is largely the size class history.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 6, 2015 16:50:37 GMT
The Voyager size was first seen during Armada, what's called Maxcons here. It's the same size from there on albeit different names.
The oldest size is the Megas which goes right the way back to the Euro 92 range and Rotorstorm & Stalker. Their boxes are exactly the same size as the Megas and were later sold as Megas in Machine Wars. Trakkons and Lightformers the next year used an identical box size here in the UK.
There's an important difference between the scouts (Energon onwards) and the Basics (BW - RID): the basics generally had 3mm hands, the Scouts generally have 5mm. It gets confusing later on as they start shrinking and thus loose the 5mm hands.
Interestingly although Armada throughout the old sizes, Universe kept using them being a mixture of deluxe and Ultra.
The same size names were used in Universe 2 with the addition of Voyagers.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Sept 6, 2015 17:14:54 GMT
Future lines dropped "of Cybertron" and only called the class legends. Also dropped the minicon twopacks. Prime renamed Legends to Cyberverse Legion, and introduced Cyberverse Commanders (halfway between scouts and legends). Cyberverse, as a concept, and it's accompanying commander size was introduced with Dark of the Moon before Prime. The commanders, with identically sized hands, are probably closer to older basics. And then modern Generations renamed Cyb Commanders to Legends. That happened because of the FOC tape interactivity. They made Legends sized tapes and bundled them in a 2 pack together. That lasted 2 waves. They then went to the larger sized figure, in similar packaging and identical pricepoint, packed with a companion and kept the same name. Then they lost the companion figure! They're in no way Cyberverse Commanders, because the modern Legends have 5mm fists instead of the 3mm fists all the Cyberverse toys do. If anything the current Legends are old style Basics but with 5mm fists!   Obviously you could fake anything just by using one example but generally these four illustrate the point well: Scouts (Energon & Cybertron) are substantially the largest sub deluxe price point toy. Cyberverse commanders are smaller. Basics and the current Legends are roughly the same size, albeit with different size fist holes. Sadly the only PCC Commander I had to hand wasn't parting company from his limbs and thus was unable to take part in this discussion! |
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Post by Toph on Sept 6, 2015 17:59:14 GMT
Fist size in no way a class makes. Old legends and legion are exactly the same class dispite the randomness of whether they have weapons or not, and whether they can hold weapons or not.
New legends are absolutely Commanders. If anything, they're downgraded because I have several commanders larger than my new legends.
Put bumblebee, optimus, megatron, ans starscream next to the prime commanders, and there is hardly any difference in design/engineering technique.
You are correct about DotM introducing Cyberverse and repurposing legends for that as legion, and introducing commanders.
I forgot about DotM.
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 8, 2015 16:39:42 GMT
Phil, you are obsessed with millimetres!!!
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Sept 8, 2015 20:26:32 GMT
Man's gotta have a hobby!
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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 8, 2015 20:37:48 GMT
There are worse hobbies.
Errr....
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Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 5,940
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Post by Stomski on Sept 10, 2015 14:22:13 GMT
It's only been touched on, but with the renames of the size classes came the introduction of different molds for the same character.
Back in Beast era the size class was the size of the character generally. (Some exceptions like BM megas!)
When the movies hit, the amount of character reuse meant different size classes were now (in places) like sub lines rather than working together.
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