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Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 29, 2016 13:42:33 GMT
Cba tagging, godmod feel free. My memory is we agreed to spoiler leaked images, nothing more. If anyone thinks different start another thread and we'll thrash it out there. |
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 29, 2016 22:14:40 GMT
Cba tagging, godmod feel free. My memory is we agreed to spoiler leaked images, nothing more. If anyone thinks different start another thread and we'll thrash it out there. It makes logical sense to have leaked pictures and discussion of leaked pictures either under the spoiler tab or in a separate thread. It can be annoying when I am trying to avoid leaked pics then read descriptions of them, which amount to the same thing really. -Ralph |
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Post by Pinwig on Apr 29, 2016 22:55:20 GMT
We agreed on spoiler tags so Phil wasn't constantly having to disect a separate rumours thread to move info to the right place when it is confirmed. I think.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2016 6:01:36 GMT
Well, I tagged all mine, and someone undid it. It's a pain in the butt on mobile to do it in the first place, so I'm not gonna redo it. That was me, cos I don't believe that's what we agreed. |
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Dezzeh
Thunderjet
Wait, what?
Posts: 4,888
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Post by Dezzeh on Apr 30, 2016 6:17:24 GMT
Yeah I mostly post on mobile these days and tagging is awful, along with pretty much all other formatting tbh. I can understand people not wanting to see leaked content but does feel that it will limit contributions somewhat
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Post by Llama God on Apr 30, 2016 8:09:48 GMT
Perhaps a vote? I mean, I'm not fussed about leaked images myself, but I will, on the other hand, track down and kill anyone who spoils the plot of films, shows or books that I care about. So if other people feel the same about leaked images, then I'm more than happy to respect that.
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2016 13:33:49 GMT
Seems simple enough. Have this thread for discussion of leaked photos and descriptions of these photos or from certain click-bait podcasts, websites and the like. If something is officially announced discuss as normal in the appropriate threads. Easy!
For me when there was the odd leak I let it go but now there is such a high volume of it that the issue is drowning out the proper reveals thus killing the fun of catching up on news from Toyfairs and the like. At the end of the day it is theft anyway.
Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Apr 30, 2016 13:40:05 GMT
Agreed.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2016 13:56:54 GMT
<God Mod Hat On, as the person who's probably going to have to do the hard work here>Well there's one option, and that had occurred to me. I don't think it's as cut and dried as you think and it would need a bit of moderation to police the threads for rumours. But as it's only really the Generations toylines threads it should be easy enough to do. Then when the toys are revealed the relevant posts are moved back in? The options, as I see it, are: A) People who want to avoid the rumours avoid the ongoing toyline threads.
B) we spoiler the images
C) we spoiler the images and comments - as we've seen mobile users have issues with the tagging and knowingif something should be or not.
D) we ban discussion on non Hasbro reveals - not terribly realistic
E) Separate thread for leaks and rumours Have I covered all of the options? A show of hands on how many other people want to avoid knowing stuff before an official reveal might be useful. <God Mod Hat off> |
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Post by Benn on Apr 30, 2016 13:57:07 GMT
Ayup. I'm in the 'wait for the official reveal' camp, and thusly would vote 'E'
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Post by blueshift on Apr 30, 2016 14:00:49 GMT
I don't mind either way!
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Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2016 14:08:55 GMT
<personal opinion hat on> I don't like the spoilering of comments on stuff. I think spoilering is a hindrance to discussion: look at how many posts we get on the ongoing comics. I don't think these images are theft: somebody has broken contract by revealing them but nobody has gone in and taken them. Stuff has always got out before Hasbro has said anything. Prototypes, images, computer listings etc ..... There's several threads here with pages and pages of speculation and rumour before anything solid emerges. Where do you draw the line? If it's at "stuff shown at toyfair, Botcon, SDCC and NYCC plus any odd timed reveal" then there's not much to talk about in the main body of a thread. That said a separate Generations Rumours/Leaks/Pictures thread is PROBABLY the best solution that been suggested yet. It's the way we've gone for Rogue One and seems to work there. The words "New Pictures Thread" keep going through my head for some reason! <personal opinion hat off> |
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Post by blueshift on Apr 30, 2016 14:21:13 GMT
My personal opinion is that if you spoiler pics you should also spoiler discussion or not bother.
I have no problem with leaked pics. In this modern age, the line between where a leak starts and where an official announcement begins is blurry. Hasbro don't officially announce everything after all! Would prototypes on ebay be verboten? Would listings on store computers count as leaks if they've not been officially announced yet? Is it just 'stolen' images from Hasbro, however you define that? At the end of the day, if Hasbro didn't want those pictures out there, the would not be out there. It would be trivial for them to C&D the major sites.
I can understand wanting the surprise of a Toyfair announcement, but that's not really how today's marketing, twitter-driven 'exciting' social media tiny reveal model works anymore.
Now, that's my view and why I have no moral issue with this: namely Hasbro wants to create a buzz around their product, and they're clearly happy about the social media buzz no matter where the stuff comes from, as they have the ability to shut it down if they wish, and they do not.
BUT I'm easy really. If you guys want to spoiler all new toy discussion, I'm up for that. Don't want to go making anyone feel they can't post here as they don't want to be spoilered!!
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Post by Pinwig on Apr 30, 2016 14:27:41 GMT
As is always the case, I'd vote for what makes the majority happy, so go E for me. I don't think there's any need to merge about specific toys when they're properly announced either.
The problem will be in general quick discussion remembering what is a rumour and what is properly announced. There are likely to be spoilers in the proper threads if you ask me. Half the time I can't remember what's official and what isn't. There's also stuff like Lio Kaiser - we know it's coming because it was on a box at Botcon, but it hasn't been announced. So is it a rumour or official? It's a tough area to define.
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Post by Llama God on Apr 30, 2016 14:29:08 GMT
Aye, I'm quite down with option E. As no kids anywhere I know would say.
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Post by Llama God on Apr 30, 2016 14:29:40 GMT
The problem will be in general quick discussion remembering what is a rumour and what is properly announced. There are likely to be spoilers in the proper threads if you ask me. Half the time I can't remember what's official and what isn't. There's also stuff like Lio Kaiser - we know it's coming because it was on a box at Botcon, but it hasn't been announced. So is it a rumour or official? It's a tough area to define. Yeah. That would be my only problem, also. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2016 14:44:11 GMT
Lio Kaiser is, to me, like the heads on Friday at Botcon. Hasbro have shown it, their fault if it wasn't shown when they wanted. Ditto the Titan Wars banner which "accidentally"* went to Botcon last year.
* Accidentally, my backside!
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Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2016 14:47:11 GMT
Also TFYuki, and his silhouettes, are officially mandated by Takara so they'd be OK.
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2016 15:49:38 GMT
Option E.
And no-one has the right to steal images of products for personal gain. People work hard on these things. It's not alright to steal images for the purpose of "Look at me! Give me attention!" no matter how much the narcisism of social media demands it.
I always take issue that there would be little discussion in threads without talking about leaks. There are hundreds of existing toys past and present to talk about!
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Apr 30, 2016 16:10:34 GMT
That's not what I'm saying though, I'm saying it'd be very easy to talk about upcoming toys and not remember whether they've been announced or not. Like right now I could name about six upcoming TR figures and I've no clue if they've been officially announced or if the images I've seen are leaks. If I have to go back and double check every toy I'm talking about to see, I'd probably just not bother posting.
However, as said, I'm more than happy to keep unannounced toy discussion to a single thread, but you'll have to forgive the occasional slip if it happens anywhere else.
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Post by Toph on Apr 30, 2016 16:40:53 GMT
I don't like that the leaks exist, and wish hasbro would sue the shit out of whoever is doing it. 2016 has barely started and we know half of 2017's offerings.
I also disagree that hasbro is secretly allowing this. That just sounds insanely silly that they would be happy that they have nothing to show us in product reveals.
That said, the leaks are virtually impossible to avoid, especially when every news site frontpages them. And at some point it becomes silly asking people to police talk about Rodimus ten months after it's become common knowledge.
And where do you draw the line? Rumor? Wish lists? Talk about what a mold may likely be used for? This sounds like I'm being hyperbolic, but there honestly isn't that big a difference between all of these. If you start looking into censoring one, sooner or later you're gonna start looking into censoring the others.
Here's a real life example that this slope is slippery.
Discussing the show Once Upon a Time with my sister, two years ago, I said I wanted to see Karen Gillan cast as Merida. She freaked out about how I just spoiled it for her. Her logic being that that means Merida isn't in it yet and thus I have ruined the rest of the season, and any surprise when the character does show up.
Granted, this is insane, and the most extreme instance of spoilerism that I have ever encountered, but I am banned from even common fan speculation and wishing, around her.
It really isn't hard to start to apply this logic to the toys, when we start speculating what a newly, honestly revealed toy may get used for.
And at what point do they stop being spoilers? When hasbro reveals them? Hasbro didn't used to do that, and we'd have no clue what was coming until they showed up in stores. Is that the line? I would enjoy that sort of surprise, too. But it's not realistic.
So the real question is, when you can't even look at a news site (and they're *all* guilty), is it realistic to bar or tag all discussion until Hasbro does reveal?
I'd be more inclined to agree if more sites treated it as such.
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Post by Benn on Apr 30, 2016 18:44:40 GMT
Just as a note, I don't actually go on any of the news sites. This place is my one-stop shop for all my Transformer needs. Off the top of my head the only one I can think is Seibertron, and that's cuz I used to try and do the Heavy Metal War game thing they ran.
I guess I'm a tad unique in that respect then.
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
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Post by primenova on Apr 30, 2016 18:53:20 GMT
I always check 3 sites everyday - so if the toy pics are on the main news page I've seen them & don't mind seeing them, but some people might not check news sites (I expect most people do check the latest news & why most of the time I don't post a link)
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Post by Pinwig on Apr 30, 2016 19:02:35 GMT
Which does also raise the point that the news sites obviously don't get many complaints about showing the leaks front and centre.
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2016 21:29:55 GMT
As the line in Jurrasic Park goes: "Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should." (Or words to that effect).
-Ralph
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Post by Baron B of Triple B on Apr 30, 2016 22:26:17 GMT
As the line in Jurrasic Park goes: "Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should." (Or words to that effect). -Ralph 'You(r scientists) were so preoccupied with whether or not they could they didn't stop to think if they should.' |
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Post by Baron B of Triple B on Apr 30, 2016 22:37:09 GMT
As for the leaks of upcoming toys and discussion of them, I don't mind. It's different from spoilers for films etc, with those you sit through a film building suspense before the plot reveals itself. Someone spoiling that removes the suspense and the need to sit through the film.
With the majority of toy leaks it's someone showing you something in almost the same way the manufacturers are going to show you, just a few weeks earlier. In fact I would say they even help build interest for the official reveals. All you're doing is finding out upcoming toys. If you liken it to spoilers for films, it'd be like you not being allowed to know who was in the film until it started.
has there been many leaks where it's ruined the plot for an upcoming show or movie? Other than just to tell you who the characters will be?
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Post by Kingoji on Apr 30, 2016 22:43:49 GMT
When a product is leaked, it's out there. I dislike the frequency of leaks this year as much as anyone, but once it's happened, that's tough tiddies on all of us, and I'm sure as hell not going to police my discussions about something that is now public (and widely reported, as many have already stated).
I *do* sympathise with those who don't want to know, and I'd really like something done about the leaks. But I'm not going to stubbornly close my eyes and ears and "lalala" for what could be months between leak and release.
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Rich
Protoform
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Post by Rich on May 1, 2016 8:01:01 GMT
BBB summed up my view, but I also wish we could get rid of the spoiler tag on the comic thread too. It's a spoiler thread, don't read it if you don't want to see it. The only things in it that don't get spoilered are very vague comments like 'it's good' and links to interviews which are probably spoilers themselves.
I know there has been an issue with some people reading the forum by looking at unread posts, but maybe the people who do that should be inconvenienced rather than the people who select the threads they want / don't want to read?
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Post by blueshift on May 1, 2016 8:13:17 GMT
BBB summed up my view, but I also wish we could get rid of the spoiler tag on the comic thread too. It's a spoiler thread, don't read it if you don't want to see it. The only things in it that don't get spoilered are very vague comments like 'it's good' and links to interviews which are probably spoilers themselves. I know there has been an issue with some people reading the forum by looking at unread posts, but maybe the people who do that should be inconvenienced rather than the people who select the threads they want / don't want to read? Eh, in terms of stuff like comics etc, if it is a new release (ie last week or so) stuff should be spoilered. And I know a lot of people here read the forum using 'recent posts' rather than go by thread. |
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