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Post by Toph on Mar 12, 2023 1:35:14 GMT
I recently read the words "...And since Enterprise the show) was decanonized, which is for the best..." And I'm like, since when???The TMP Enterprise was the same one from TOS/TAS just stripped down and rebuilt. A similar procedure was probably done on the Titan. Perhaps in the time since, Starfleet has deemed a rebuild over x-% gets a new suffix. Discovery was given the 'A' suffix when refitted in the 32nd century though that may have been part of a way to pretend it was a brand new ship. Personally, I would prefer it if suffixes were only given to 100% new builds, but hey ho. I am still confused though if the Stargazer in s2 was a new ship or Picard's old one refitted. -Ralph Well, the Enterprise wasn't rebuilt into a completely 100% different spaceframe. It would be akin to the Reliant being rebuilt into an Excelsior class. |
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 15, 2023 15:29:46 GMT
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 15, 2023 17:24:38 GMT
That'll do for me. Really enjoying season 3 still and honestly beginning to think that S1 and S2 had to happen for S3 to work as well as it is. Whether you like it or not the first two seasons did a lot of world building that benefits season 3. And I dont think we are losing anything getting the TNG reunion season 3 years in. If we'd got it in season 1 I really do think it would have been one and done. Reuniting them once is cool. Reuniting them again is questionable. Then reunited them again, again is just silly. And on a practical level I now 100% believe what I was initially half joking about season 3 looks this good because they stole the budget and production time from season 2 to make it happen. S2 used a redressed Titan for the Stargazer, reused the Chateau (with a few expansions) and La Sirena. The only set that seems like it was built for S2 is 10 Forward and maybe some of Soongs place. Everything else largely seemed to be location shooting. The series had minimal VFX in half the episodes. I really literally dont think this season could have been made without the lasts sacrifice. I was a little concerned about the pacing, but then this episode sort of changed the game. Spoiler
This wasnt episode 3 of a never ending being hunted plot. The last two were a submarine battle type story and this was a disaster survival story, but instead of the last story wrapping up and then the ship hitting a quantum string at the beginning of this episode they're combined. I really like that. I guess thats something that DS9 was doing by the end of its run, but it still feels fresh 20+ years later.
And this was the first episode that felt like a TNG episode. Up until this point it was a Trek show with TNG characters in it, now its is a TNG show.
Despite that Shaw and Seven may still have been the best part of the episode. If theres a spin of lined up I hope its them and LaForge.
And Im just going to defend the lighting here. I love it. Yes its Star Trek in Dark Mode, but given the option thats how most of my screens are set. Its the polar opposite to the Kelvinverses lighting. It looks fantastic and I have had no issues making out whats happening. {Spoiler}One minor quibble was the needless scene last week when Crusher had to prove she wasnt over the hill. It seems unneccesary at the time, but after her role this week as the brains of the outfit it makes it also redundant. |
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Post by Toph on Mar 15, 2023 17:30:16 GMT
That doesn't make it make sense.
That works for if they wanted to reuse Disco or SNW models. Or to explain that the new Stargazer is actually Picard's old ship.
But reusing some old parts in the construction of a completely different ship is not a refit. And it doesn't make it the same ship.
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Post by Jim on Mar 15, 2023 23:06:54 GMT
And Im just going to defend the lighting here. I love it. Yes its Star Trek in Dark Mode, but given the option thats how most of my screens are set. Its the polar opposite to the Kelvinverses lighting. It looks fantastic and I have had no issues making out whats happening. My daughter has really got into TOS recently, she's watched the whole thing with some episodes multiple times, so the other day I started watching Wrath of Khan with her. Her first big reaction: "Why is it so dark?!? I hate this!" I laughed out loud... |
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 16, 2023 9:05:38 GMT
That doesn't make it make sense. That works for if they wanted to reuse Disco or SNW models. Or to explain that the new Stargazer is actually Picard's old ship. But reusing some old parts in the construction of a completely different ship is not a refit. And it doesn't make it the same ship. Depends on what "some old parts" actually means. If all the guts of Rikers Titan are wrapped around a different skeleton is that any less a refit that if the skeleton of Rikers titan had been wrapped in brand new guts? From the episodes so far we can be fairly certain the computer core and the inner gubbins of the nacelles are from Rikers Titan. And if the Nacelles are then is the warp core likely? And the impulse engines? and the deflector systems? And anyway if the skeleton is actually the original 2280s Titan then its a Titan refit either way. |
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Post by Llama God on Mar 17, 2023 8:36:35 GMT
I can kinda get that. But the thing for me is that the two ships are completely different shapes - the nacelles are the other way up, the saucer sections are different shapes, and the "refit" has a neck. Which of course doesn't preclude the parts from having been re-used anyway, in a very extreme way, treating the earlier Titan more like a Lego set, but it makes it very hard to square the two as being even remotely the same.
So whilst I can certainly get the argument that this the new Titan is an extreme parts reuse of the older one, it just doesn't *feel* like the same ship. Which is harder to justify, but nevertheless...
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Post by Toph on Mar 17, 2023 8:47:05 GMT
All of this would have been avoided had they omitted the word "refit" entirely.
Had they just simply said that the Titan had been retired, and the Titan-A christened to carry it's legacy.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 17, 2023 20:28:54 GMT
Just watched Episode 5
Still good.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Mar 17, 2023 21:21:46 GMT
Agreed!
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 17, 2023 21:54:13 GMT
Yup.
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 17, 2023 23:39:24 GMT
Not my favourite episode of the season, but thats more to do with how good the last two were.
And it did its job of setting up the back half of the season.
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Post by Llama God on Mar 18, 2023 9:50:43 GMT
Yeah, still enjoying this, despite my quibbles above. Things actually moving forwards now, which is nice. Although - and I know this is an odd complaint to level at a Trek show, but nevertheless - it's also still feeling a little static since they've not used any new sets for a few episodes now. Which as I say, isn't unusual for Star Trek at all, but feels odd for Picard given the previous two seasons visited a lot of different locales (not necessarily to the show's benefit, of course, but all the same, it still gave it a certain feel). But not a complaint. Now it all hinges on whether they can stick the landing or not...
One thing I was grateful for was Worf's fake-out "death" not being dragged out. Between this show and Discovery they've really over-used the whole "they're dead... cry for them... oh they're not, surprise!" thing to the point that if someone dies now I'm not convinced that they won't be back shortly, so I'm glad that was resolved in minutes.
I am, however, relatively certain that Ro's dead. Which was a surprise. I'd actually managed to avoid having her appearance spoiled at all, so her appearing at all was a surprise, but just for one episode... ballsy. And I was convinced she was a Changeling when she came on board, so well played to them there.
And on the ongoing starships discussion, Intrepid has an interesting design, but I can't help but think about how it would make a good bookmark...
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 18, 2023 10:08:26 GMT
Anyone else distracted by a Very Obvious Wig?
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Mar 18, 2023 13:48:33 GMT
Outrageous. I am NOT obvious. You do not know I'm here.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Mar 18, 2023 15:11:13 GMT
Anyone else distracted by a Very Obvious Wig? -Ralph No. |
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 18, 2023 17:10:56 GMT
It was mesmerising.
-Ralph
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Post by Jim on Mar 18, 2023 23:11:23 GMT
The streak continues!
I had no idea Ro would be back, that was a nice surprise in this day and age of social media spoilers and trailers which summarise the whole plot. And even if her death was sad, it didn't have the pointlessness and cynicism of the deaths of Hugh and Icheb, or even Q (which was more stupid than anything).
Someone else is going to turn out to be a changeling, aren't they? I feel like going back and rewatching to look for clues, which is something I couldn't possibly have said about the previous seasons...
The other nice thing about the unexpected face is it feels like it opens up the show for all sorts of appearances and cameos. Barclay? Pulaski? Lefler? I know, I know, extremely unlikely for various reasons, but I can dream...
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Mar 19, 2023 0:52:05 GMT
I'm quite delighted that everyone's focus on *the* TNG cast kinda made us all not think about the other great characters in it like Ro. An absolute delight to see her turn up and just go "Oh yeah..." and have all the other possibilities open out. Just hope they don't over do it. |
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Post by Toph on Mar 19, 2023 6:21:31 GMT
Speculation: Well, Barclay is certainly plausible.
But personally I'd prefer him in Prodigy. I mean the Voyager crew certainly has a strong affection for him after everything he did for them.
And I certainly could see Admiral Janeway making certain he's looked after.
Him being a senior officer on the Voyager-A (Speculated to appear in Prodigy S2) or Voyager-B (speculated to appear later in Picard S3)
There's also rumors of a major Voyager cameo who's not Janeway. My money is on Harry Kim as captain of V-B. |
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Post by Llama God on Mar 19, 2023 9:23:39 GMT
That seems unlikely - surely Kim'll be an Ensign serving on the Voyager-B?
I think I read somewhere that Janeway's basically reserved for Prodigy, so it's unlikely to be her. We've had Tom Paris in Lower Decks already. So my guess is... the Doctor? That seems like an obvious and easy one to do. Especially with the focus around Daystrom.
But it'll actually be Neelix. Because of course it will.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 19, 2023 9:34:14 GMT
The AI on the Daystrom station will be... {Spoiler}Lore. |
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 19, 2023 19:23:31 GMT
Though it would be great if isn't actually Lore but B-4, who is vengeful after being stuck in a drawer for 20 years by a Federation which is supposed to respect all life.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 19, 2023 19:27:17 GMT
{Spoiler}The Federations ability to respect all life is...variable as we have seen over the years.
They will keep B4 in reserve for Picard Season 4/Riker Season 1 don't want to use them all after all, running out of Soong merchandise. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Mar 19, 2023 20:11:33 GMT
My money is on Moriarty being the DS AI and Lore is rolled out to defeat him. That way they can get 'Data' into group shots of the team. |
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 19, 2023 22:19:27 GMT
If only for an excuse to hear Jerrey Combs again I'm hoping it Agimus.
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Post by Bogatan on Mar 19, 2023 22:29:10 GMT
As we've reached the half way point, Ive realised that for the first time we'll know we are watching the last TNG story as we watch it*.
With TNG we knew the films were coming.
(Did Generations come out before TNG finshed in the UK?)
And I dont think anyone went to see Nemesis at cinema assuming it would be the final film. At least not in the first few days.
So this is going to be a new, somewhat sad experience for me.
* I mean theres going to be some kind of spin off that may or may not feature TNG characters, but I dont see us getting them all together again after this one.
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Post by Toph on Mar 19, 2023 23:06:59 GMT
We did not know Nemesis would be the last.
But after reading about Burman's plans for the next one, I'm very glad it was.
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Post by Llama God on Mar 20, 2023 8:29:02 GMT
I don't think I know about those plans. And for that, I'm glad. But yeah, that's a good point - they never deliberately ended TNG, it just stopped. Now I'm feeling things I wasn't expecting to feel. As to the rest...
Just to be contrary (although not just) it'll be Lore that's the issue, and it'll be Moriarty they use to defeat him. And the reason that Lore is the issue is that it's him that the Changelings were after, not the portal gun - following the compromise of the Jem'Hadar they want a new force of unstoppable, loyal warriors, so they're planning to replicate Soong-type androids. (This was a key plot in some of my head-only fan-fiction that thankfully never saw the light of day.)
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Post by Jim on Mar 20, 2023 8:59:49 GMT
I don't think I know about those plans. And for that, I'm glad. But yeah, that's a good point - they never deliberately ended TNG, it just stopped. Now I'm feeling things I wasn't expecting to feel. As to the rest...
Just to be contrary (although not just) it'll be Lore that's the issue, and it'll be Moriarty they use to defeat him. And the reason that Lore is the issue is that it's him that the Changelings were after, not the portal gun - following the compromise of the Jem'Hadar they want a new force of unstoppable, loyal warriors, so they're planning to replicate Soong-type androids. (This was a key plot in some of my head-only fan-fiction that thankfully never saw the light of day.)
I like where that theory is going!
I wonder if that's why they're also after Jack then - maybe he isn't human after all, but another android. It would fit his lightning fast reflexes in dealing with those changelings, and there's no way his story is as simple as being Picard's son. Beverley's pregnancy didn't work out, so this was her solution and why she had to stay away from Starfleet?
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The TMP Enterprise was the same one from TOS/TAS just stripped down and rebuilt. A similar procedure was probably done on the Titan. Perhaps in the time since, Starfleet has deemed a rebuild over x-% gets a new suffix.
