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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 21, 2018 18:11:26 GMT
The problem is though, that the longer they spend on Earth, the more acclimatised they would become to it, so their would naturally be less of the culture adjustment over time. That's fine, as long as it's a plausible learning process. And binary-bonding to Headmasters/Powermasters refreshes the concept. The relationship should certainly evolve. I was pleased, for example, when after four years on Earth, the human authorities in the Marvel comics realised at last that the Autobots were friendly and opened the door to an alliance. But that didn't get explored properly before the TFs were whisked away to fight Unicron. Martin |
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Post by inflatabledalek on Dec 21, 2018 18:46:05 GMT
Whilst a full on reboot does give the chance to make them something they've very rarely been beyond an occasional superficial Johnny 5 "Tell me about this strange human custom" way, I think we'd lose a lot of what makes Transformers a success which is the largely well defined and very human characters. Those personality filled tec specs did a lot of the heavy lifting over things like Go-Bots back in the day.
Plus, I think you could only go down that road with an Earth based story with heavy human involvement so you could have some recognisable characters in there as well (which is what the strongest poster child for "Make them really alien" Man of Iron did, it's a story about a boy and his family going through hell rather than the robots. Same for a lot of the first Bay film as well).
Yes, them always having been so human in personality has always been "Unrealistic" for outer space robot people (though you can hadwave it throught the different origins, Quintessons programmed them to be like their organic masters or having glowy bit of SPACE Jesus as your soul changes the rules), but that's a conceit we're all generally fine with making at this point surely?
As for the limited stuff we know now...
All the ideas look fine and solid, but it doesn't quite have that one big USP to grab me and get me really excited yet.
Was hoping that, if they weren't going to try for as big a name as they could get, we'd be looking at brand new young and more diverse talent for a real fresh perspective. A 52 year old Scottish novelist feels like the most bland choice they could have gone for. Especially as, really oddly, IDW aren't mentioning he's written comics for them before, inlcuding a Highlander miniseries only last year that presumably got him this gig (indeed, that book seems to have fallen into obscurity so fast I kind of want to read it to see why, even though I suspect it won't be representative of Ruckley at his best).
Would have really liked some women on the creative team as well, that well of talent being overlooked again (I think you barely need two hands to count every female writer and artist IDW have used?) continues to feel a missed opportunity to, again, bring fresh perspectives and ideas. And especially bad timing with the book starting the same time as the "LOOK AT ALL THE WOMEN WE EMPLOY AND HARDLY ANY OF THEM WERE SEXUALLY HARASSED BY THE PUBLISHER BEFORE WE SHOVED HIM OUT THE DOOR" special.
Still, the set-up is fine. The covers we've seen look good, so it's just a case of wait and see what gets done with it.
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Post by blueshift on Dec 21, 2018 19:01:08 GMT
Was hoping that, if they weren't going to try for as big a name as they could get, we'd be looking at brand new young and more diverse talent for a real fresh perspective. A 52 year old Scottish novelist feels like the most bland choice they could have gone for. Working on transformers, that feels anything BUT a bland and safe choice. |
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Post by drmick on Dec 21, 2018 19:42:07 GMT
Can you give an example though? OK, in the Marvel comics we had Bluestreak asking Buster Witwicky what a kiss was, whether it was a form of data transfer, and we had Autobots thinking cars at a drive-in movie were in some sort of ritual trance, and we had Skids and co. struggling with the concept of music and how humans behaved at rock concerts, and not understanding the concept of gender, and we had TFs uploading their consciousness into computer games and fighting in virtual worlds and the Internet, and we had Ratchet trying to talk to a traffic light and telling Buster that it proved speaking politely worked when it finally turned green, and so on. Little things like Jazz revealing that his name is unpronounceable by humans, and the Battlechargers mimicking a rebellious child and learning about graffiti, and the Throttlebots' brains being installed in toy cars, and so on. The concept of death was also different, because TFs could be smashed to smithereens and put back together again provided their brain module was intact or had been backed up. And TFs could repair or alter their bodies quite easily. All that stuff made the TFs appealing to me because it made me see our world with an outsider's eyes. And then Headmasters/Powermasters added a new dimension to the comparing and contrasting of cultures, by forcing the robots and humans to understand one another better in order to function as one. Nowadays, TFs have all those human cultural and biological concepts themselves, so the alienness that made them interesting is often diluted or gone. Martin All of those examples involve an interaction with humans though. As others have pointed out you either have Transformers be human in nature, or have them completely alien but interacting with humans, or human-like characters. Those examples are also from the very early days, it could be said the majority of Marvel G1 involved more human motives. This pre-War setting isn't going to involve humans. And if it were to involve human-like non-Transformer aliens to fulfil that role it is going to take a massive plot contrivance to get said aliens on Cybertron in the first place. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 21, 2018 20:02:42 GMT
Yes, I agree it would be a challenge to portray a convincing sentient machine society prior to its having any contact with organic life-forms, and make it an engaging story for human readers. But science-fiction is supposed to be about thinking creatively. Portraying their society like human society is the easy option, but rather wastes their potential. Might as well not make them machines at all if the writer wants to do that.
Martin
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Post by drmick on Dec 21, 2018 21:25:32 GMT
Yes, I agree it would be a challenge to portray a convincing sentient machine society prior to its having any contact with organic life-forms, and make it an engaging story for human readers. But science-fiction is supposed to be about thinking creatively. Portraying their society like human society is the easy option, but rather wastes their potential. Might as well not make them machines at all if the writer wants to do that. Martin Fair point. I would love to see Roberts take on a kooky superhero/supervillain team book. |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 21, 2018 23:05:36 GMT
And especially bad timing with the book starting the same time as the "LOOK AT ALL THE WOMEN WE EMPLOY AND HARDLY ANY OF THEM WERE SEXUALLY HARASSED BY THE PUBLISHER BEFORE WE SHOVED HIM OUT THE DOOR" special. What are you referring to? -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 21, 2018 23:06:28 GMT
Was hoping that, if they weren't going to try for as big a name as they could get, we'd be looking at brand new young and more diverse talent for a real fresh perspective. A 52 year old Scottish novelist feels like the most bland choice they could have gone for. Working on transformers, that feels anything BUT a bland and safe choice. Indeed. What does the age of the writer have to do with anything? -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 21, 2018 23:08:38 GMT
Yes, I agree it would be a challenge to portray a convincing sentient machine society prior to its having any contact with organic life-forms, and make it an engaging story for human readers. But science-fiction is supposed to be about thinking creatively. Portraying their society like human society is the easy option, but rather wastes their potential. Might as well not make them machines at all if the writer wants to do that. Martin I was going to type a long reply about my preference for TF's as alien robots but Martin's comments sum it up better than I could! Of course, there is (and has been) room for the type of comics were TF's are more 'human'. Room for both approaches I say. Readers are free to go with what they like! -Ralph |
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Dec 21, 2018 23:27:17 GMT
I remember chatting with Andy T at a convention once about what TFs on Cybertron should have originally been like and we came up with ideas like them all looking like Ratchet/Ironhide toy types - their robot modes would be the most practical for their function. Optimus pretty much being the Combat deck and Megatron pretty much being some sort of defence weaponry.
They would communicate in bleeps and binary codes, transformation would just be a form of travel and any 'streets' or 'social areas' would be recharging points.
It wouldn't be until contact with Earth (or some other life) that they would configure themselves to mimic that style of robot body (2 arms, legs etc) and verbal communications. (I always loved the fact that prior to the Marvel comic, organic life was completely unknown to the Autobots).
Of course, this would make a pretty boring comic to most people, so expect there to be library's, public houses, male and females, streets, chairs and amusement parks etc in pre war Cybertron in the stories.
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Post by blueshift on Dec 21, 2018 23:38:00 GMT
Working on transformers, that feels anything BUT a bland and safe choice. Indeed. What does the age of the writer have to do with anything? -Ralph Or the gender. Let's not forget that the writer with the most 'diverse' comic was James Roberts. Seen a worrying amount of people on twitter attacking the new team with even some namecalling because they are all male (and some of the team is on twitter, how awful must it be for them to see that!) I am sure that IDW chose the best team with the best pitch for the book. After the last few years I can't believe anyone can question their commitment to diversity |
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Dec 21, 2018 23:50:27 GMT
Female writers at IDW - Georgina Ball
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 23, 2018 20:43:02 GMT
Synopsis for issue one reveals possible concerns: Another Bumblebee/Windblade driven story... A NEW ERA DAWNS! In the infinite universe, there exists a planet like no other: Cybertron! Home to the Transformers, and a thriving hub for inter-stellar commerce, it is a world brimming with organic and constructed diversity. Immense structures line its landscape. Mechanical giants roam across its surface. Starship-sized titans orbit its skies, keeping a constant protective watch above and below. Ancient Transformers merge into its very fabric. Small, mysterious creatures skulk in its shadows. It is a truly amazing realm: long untouched by war, and exuberantly reaching for the stars. This is the Cybertron that Optimus Prime and Megatron vie for in this bold new origin—a world of seemingly endless peace! All that changes when Bumblebee and Windblade take a newly-forged Cybertronian on his first voyage through this world of wonders—they are confronted by the hard reality of the first murder to have occurred on Cybertron in living memory! tformers.com/new-transformers-1-comic-summary-reveal-series-to-be-bumblebee-story-line/34572/news.html |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Dec 23, 2018 20:49:51 GMT
No real concerns there as far as I can see.
Interesting enough premise, but it's all about the execution.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 23, 2018 21:39:10 GMT
I find both Bumblebee and Windblade utterly dull in all their incarnations (excepting Marvel UK Goldbug), so strong roles for them puts me off, but we shall see.
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Post by Pinwig on Dec 23, 2018 21:59:47 GMT
I just feel those two are getting the limelight in Cyberverse, so it'd be nice to see other characters having a go. The uniform approach to all the lines seems to mean the same focus characters in everything, yet there isn't a Windblade toy in Siege.
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Dec 24, 2018 12:53:25 GMT
How many issue are we going to see how the new writers cope or are we going to wait for tpb? So we are going with someone who's never written Transformers before, unless they are after getting 2 awards like James Roberts has done - the only IDW Transformers writer to get any awards (go check that out m scott - windblade doesn't get you winning any awards)
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 13, 2019 17:51:57 GMT
Spoiler free review
It's a low key opening issue, introducing a few characters and concepts - owes more to Furman's Infiltration and the early Barber RID for tone and feel.
I enjoyed it and I am looking forward for more to come.
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 13, 2019 18:07:48 GMT
It didn't blow me away but it was ok. Great opening: nice tone there and caught my attention. Then it devolved into Phantom-Menace-space-council-tax-zzzzzzzzzzz-meeting which was a trifle dull before picking up at the end.
If it was a monthly I'd probably leave it but as a fortnightly serial there's enough to have me at least come back for #2.
-Ralph
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Post by Benn on Mar 13, 2019 18:27:21 GMT
The meeting did feel like it was treading old ground, certainly in comparison with the rest of the issue. Solid attempts at world building and giving us a glimpse at how this Cybertron is different at least.
I'll be back for #2.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 13, 2019 18:39:37 GMT
I'd compare this to Furman's early Infiltration issues and John Barber's RID in the early days in terms of tone and mood right now.
I like it so will be back for Issue 2.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 13, 2019 18:40:32 GMT
With regards to {Spoiler}the apparent death of Brainstorm. I am hoping that's a bit of a bait and switch, as I think seeing the first death happen will be more impactful for the series. |
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Post by Benn on Mar 13, 2019 18:55:29 GMT
{Spoiler}Yeah, doing it this way feels like a bit of a non-event. Especially being discovered by someone who wouldn't grasp the full impact of it. |
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Post by Llama God on Mar 14, 2019 7:36:04 GMT
I thought it was... okay. I mean, part of it may be the usual issues with regeneration - you can't quite settle into the new Doctor at first because she or he is not the previous Doctor that you adored. But it usually ends up getting there. So I'm hoping this one does, too. For me, there wasn't enough that was new and different. Whilst they're touting the whole "pre-war" thing as being new and fresh, it isn't for me. I know it was only in flashback, but we spent a *lot* of time in pre-war times in IDW, Dreamwave had The War Within (although admittedly that was right at the outbreak of war), and Aligned spent some time there, not least in the computer game that was all about the outbreak of war. I know that this is a different Cybertron and all, and we are further back, but it still - in discussions of the politics and society - didn't feel fresh enough to justify an entire reboot. At least not yet, anyway. That said, the vision of a non-wrecked Cybertron *is* something that's new for an on-going series, and I liked that. And I do want to see where they'll take it, so I'll stick with it. As to matters of spoilers... I'm not entirely sure it is a fake-out. To me it seemed deliberate, taking a major character from the IDW-verse and showing that he's not going to be as big a player in this one. And, if that is indeed the case, it doesn't feel mean-spirited or anything - it just feels like it's making a statement. But we shall indeed see. |
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Post by Kingoji on Mar 15, 2019 9:15:18 GMT
Enjoyed it, but it felt a bit short after the wait and build-up. {Spoiler}Not sure how I feel about the death, but I have long held issue with named characters being killed off without having a chance to establish themselves first. |
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Mar 15, 2019 12:28:21 GMT
There is a perfectly good character for killing in the first issue they call the character windblade
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Post by Benn on Mar 15, 2019 13:35:37 GMT
Dude, she's been around years now. She's never been that bad.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 15, 2019 18:25:19 GMT
Indeed.
Also it's a new continuity so we have no idea what her character will be like.
Andy
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 15, 2019 18:26:55 GMT
Enjoyed it, but it felt a bit short after the wait and build-up. {Spoiler}Not sure how I feel about the death, but I have long held issue with named characters being killed off without having a chance to establish themselves first. {Spoiler}I don't mind that, if we get backstory to flesh them out later. However, I think the whole not seeing the killing takes away the impact somewhat. This is the first murder on the planet and it's not been seen. It would be easy to see how people would deny it in a fake news kind of way. Unless that is something that comes up as part of the plot. |
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Post by Llama God on Mar 16, 2019 8:48:55 GMT
Indeed. It's going to be the reaction of others to the death, rather than the death itself, that's going to be the driving point of the story, so really it doesn't matter if it emotionally resonates to us the reader at all. It's how it affects the remaining characters, and how we emotionally resonate with *that*.
Actually, thinking about it, it's a pretty clever move. All through the issue Brainstorm was being described as someone grumpy, a bit of a stickler, and that's not the Brainstorm that we've all grown to love in the previous contintuity. So already we the readers have our own opinions and questions formed about this one before meeting him, and whether or not we're going to like this new incarnation of Brainstorm. Finding him dead has then had an impact, and it's caused a lot of people to talk about it, and why it happened and why he was chosen... in exactly the same way that the characters themselves will now debate why it happened, and who the victim actually was and what he'd done to deserve it. So actually I think that's kinda clever. |
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