|
Post by charlesrocketboy on Jul 31, 2008 12:25:50 GMT
Yeah, but that ALSO made no sense.
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Jul 31, 2008 12:37:21 GMT
It made more sense than being easily taken out by some elderly Autobots when previously only Time itself could do the job!
-Ralph
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2008 18:03:18 GMT
Galvatron had more lives than a cat. Everytime he was disposed of he kept on returning.
|
|
|
Post by legios on Aug 5, 2008 20:41:14 GMT
As no one has yet made a nomination for the next story to tackle, might I humbly propose that we take a look at "Crisis of Command"?
Karl
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Aug 6, 2008 21:19:23 GMT
It still annoys me that Titan skipped it when they had the reprint licence and IDW have thus far not done it.
-Ralph
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 6, 2008 21:46:35 GMT
It fills me with rage as well.
Especially as Part Two has the best looking art Geoff did for the mag. EVER.
Andy
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 6, 2008 22:19:15 GMT
I loved it. Having since read the earlier US story 'Plight of the Bumblebee' I now see that the story is in large part a repeat of that combined with 'Prime Time', but it's still a great romp. Pity Geoff couldn't do Part 3 to round it off.
Martin
|
|
|
Post by legios on Aug 8, 2008 21:39:16 GMT
“Crisis of Command” is one of those UK stories that is perhaps easy to overlook in some ways. It isn't directly referenced by later continuity in any way, and could be excised without changing anything in terms of the story flow of the UK comic. Nevertheless, it is one of those stories that stuck firmly in my head from when I read it as a youngster, and is still enjoyable to read now that I am older.
Part of this is, I think, because “Crisis” is very good in terms of its fundamentals. It is a pacy story, with a very strong three act structure. Each part opens with something dramatic – part one opening with the Autobots verbally at each othes throats, part two beginning In Media Res with Bumblebee in pursuit of the fleeing Ravage, and part three with Optimus receiving a challenge over the life of the hostage Bumblebee. Strong hooks all of them, which open the story with something attention getting before slowing down to do any setup that is required. The three parts together have a good three act structure – the first issue sets the ground work, the second brings the situation to a crisis point, and the third issue is all about the resolution. I like that clarity of structure and I think it combines well with the sense of pace that the story builds up as it goes. There is a sense of energy in the story that builds up until Prime's battle with the Decepticons channels it into the resolution of the story. It also has some absolutely wonderful art to help it along the way. Geoff Senior's work on parts one and two is, for my money, not only the best work he did on “The Transformers” but a good candidate for the best art on any Transformers comic. It is a great pity that he couldn't be retained to do part three. Although there is nothing really wrong with John Stokes' work it suffers in comparison to what has gone before.
The story also does well by some of the characters. We get the first real glimpse of Soundwave as manipulator, something that was returned to in Dinobot hunt. Here it gives him some well deserved depth and allows him to step out from the shadow of holding the coats for Megatron and Shockwave. Amongst the Decepticons Starscream also benefits from some decent treatment – portrayed as “all mouth and no trousers” very effectively, both in his inability to recognise a subtle plan when he sees it and in his typically bullyish collapse when he he is stripped of anyone to hide behind. Amongst the Autobots Bumblebee comes across quite nicely here – the story is partly driven by his need to prove his worth to the other Autobots. His courage, even if it overpowers his commonsense, is rather admirable. But the story doesn't belong solely to Bumblebee, as much as anything else this is a story that asks why Optimus Prime is the leader of the Autobots and whether he can still live up to that role. Not only asks it, but answers it conclusively. We see Prime struggle with a difficult decision, one where any choice will have significant consequences that he will have to live with. The story clearly wants us to know that the reason Prime is the Autobot leader is because of his resolution – his ability to weigh the choices and to make a decision and then stand by it. We see it in his determination that he will rescue Bumblebee, his soldier and therefore his responsibility, and in his eventual decision that there will be no Autobot Supersoldiers and that he will accept the consequences of that decision. It is a very satisfying character arc that Prime has in this story. When you are dealing with this kind of material it is very easy to veer over in the realms of angst, but I think that “Crisis of Command” manages to stay fimly on the right side of that line. It is nice to see Prime's combat abilities put to the fore as they are in part three. The story does a good job of showing Prime as a powerhouse on the battlefield – his determination giving him the strength and power to force aside the Decepticons standing between him and his goal. It is a really satisfying action sequence, I just wish – after the job he did on the Decepticon ambush in part two – that Senior had been able to draw it. I also think that this story has one of the best uses of Ravage anywhere in Transformers media. The first part really sells his “master of stealth” shtick, and I think makes him quite a formidable presence as a covert agent (and all without the need to give him any dialogue at all).
Interestingly, one aspect of the story that I find myself having changed my view on over the years is the Autobot's philosophical conflict. Prowl's faction argues for building Autobot supersoldiers and ending the war in a single stroke, whilst Jazz's faction is opposed to that on the moral principle that Autobot's don't do that sort of thing. When I was younger I was strongly on Jaz's side and felt that Prime's decision at the end of the story was absolutely the right one. Over the years I have come around a little bit on this, to the point that I am not so sure that Prowl isn't right. I can see an argument for ending the war quickly and efficiently – there may be some collateral casualties, but that would happen if the war dragged on and on. (Interestingly, what Prowl is arguing for is similar in some ways to the “shock and awe” part of the so-called Rumsfield Doctrine. He's arguing for hitting the enemy so hard and fast that you effectively deny them the ability to respond. Arguably real world experience does support the idea that what Prowl is suggesting can be workable.). Not to say that Jazz's side doesn't have a strong argument as well – is it fair to create Autobots bred only for war? Is it worth winning the war by risking losing what they are fighting for? (For that matter, the question of whether it is logistically viable to provision this army is a perfectly fair one. Odd to see the Special Forces guy throwing the long-term logistics argument at the Strategist with seeming impunity. I suspect that some of Prime and Prowl's private conversation may have covered the groundwork Prowl had done on that question though). I'm not as sure of the answer as I was as a kid - I find myself thinking that Prowl has a valid point, and a plan that is potentially workable. The nice thing is “Crisis” still works as a story even if I am less certain that Prime make the right decision, because more that the decision itself the story revolves around the making of the decision. It is through making the decision, firmly and commitedly making a choice, that Prime resolves the crisis amongst the Autobot ranks and within himself.
All told, “Crisis of Command” is a brisk and well structured story which makes a positive virtue of its page count. In the modern era the themes and story element in “Crisis” would be used over many more pages but “Crisis” feels pacy, not rushed. In three relatively short installment we get three distinct acts with distinct flavours, a philosophical question posed to us whilst we are distracted by the shiny robots, a couple of nice action set pieces and some decent characterisation for the players. All of which combine to make it the story a strong contender for my favourite Transformers story acros the various media.
Karl
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 10, 2008 16:04:06 GMT
'Course, a couple of months later in 'Second Generation', Buster had a dream in which the Matrix said "Build super-soldiers!", and Prime said, "OK, then," and did a spectacular u-turn.
And unlike Prowl, the Matrix wanted super-Decepticons as well as super-Autobots, in order to escalate rather than swiftly end the conflict, and by that time Bombshell had a cerebro-shell in place to hack the life-giving program, so everything went pear-shaped.
Martin
|
|
|
Post by legios on Aug 10, 2008 19:39:08 GMT
'Course, a couple of months later in 'Second Generation', Buster had a dream in which the Matrix said "Build super-soldiers!", and Prime said, "OK, then," and did a spectacular u-turn. Well yes, there is that. One of those times that the UK comic managed to shoot itself quite nimbly in the foot. As they often say, timing is everything - and sometimes once the window has closed it can be better to just retire a plan rather than dust it off in changed circumstances. Karl
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Aug 11, 2008 21:55:54 GMT
COC was my introduction to the world of Transformers and for that I will love it forever. And how pleasant that it holds up. I do wish IDW would reprint it. My original copies are somewhat dog-eared.
-Ralph
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Aug 12, 2008 10:45:07 GMT
And now... What is the deadly secret of the Z-Foundation? Find out in...
CASH AND CAR-NAGE
-Ralph
|
|
|
Post by charlesrocketboy on Aug 12, 2008 13:56:21 GMT
Why didn't the Decepticons just test their jamming devices on their already-captured Autobot prisoners?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2008 17:00:48 GMT
Wasn't this the one where Budiansky tried to introduce some new human characters into the comic but wound up giving us some totally depressing guys who were thankfully never seen again?
|
|
|
Post by legios on Aug 12, 2008 20:09:18 GMT
It has been a long time since I have read "Cash and Carnage", and I don't recall it leaving any impression on me other than "the writers heart really isn't in it anymore is it?"
I was reminded at the weekend however of the absurdity of the sequence where "Mister Zee" reveals he is secretly Lord Zarak! There is just something a little surreal about seeing him rip off the business suit to reveal his headmaster armour underneath. The brain's circuit breakers trip when trying to assimilate the whole "but you didn't have a square torso a moment ago" thing.
Karl
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2008 17:34:46 GMT
Maybe Zarak has privileges to use Subspace like all of the other TF's do?
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Aug 18, 2008 17:49:30 GMT
Possibly.
Everyone goes on about how crap the Roadjammers are, and I agree, but that is to miss the point of CRASH AND CAR-NAGE (if one switches on tat sensors that is), namely the utter hilarity of the Z-Foundation. There is nothing about it that isn't funny, down to Mr Z and co referring to themselves as 'Mr Z' and co, even when they are alone.
-Ralph
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Aug 18, 2008 18:00:35 GMT
This week, picked by closing my eyes and randomly sticking my finger on the screen at tfarchive's list of stories is Marvel UK #99's
UNDER FIRE
Will Ultra Magnus execute Optimus Prime? Will Outback be ok?
*frets*
-Ralph
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 18, 2008 18:05:03 GMT
Re: the crapness of the Roadjammers:
I dunno, I'm quite impressed by a guy who can use a spiked ball-on-chain in conjunction with a motorcycle without killing himself.
Re: Under Fire:
Ultra Magnus is a stupid robot. Prime was too forgiving. He should have demoted him to serve as Outback's personal lackey.
Martin
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 22, 2008 20:03:25 GMT
I'm a ways behind on this thread so:
Crisis of Command - the last time a non Furman writer gets to tell a story of any weight in the UK comic. Loved it back in the day and love it now and it's an absolute crime that IDW or Titan have skipped this over in their reprint programs. Part two has the best looking Geoff Senior art ever to grace the printed page and the story is a fairly interesting one and nicely gives us some serious ramifications to Optimus Prime being captured for all those months. John Stokes does a good job with part three but it falls short of the heights of part two.
Cash and Car-Nage
Gah! Simply woeful. Bob at this point doesn't really care and the sloppy internal logic and art flaws don't help matters. It's another introduce the toys story, but I can't see anything in this tale that would even remotely make me think of getting a Sparkabot or anyone else.
Under Fire
What is it about Optimus Prime that causes mental problems for those around him. First he drove Megatron doolally and now he's affecting Ultra Magnus. Here we have a Magnus hanuted by failure and making rash actions. We'll frequently return to the haunted part as the issues go on but the rage seems a little forced. Probably due to the fact we never saw his reaction to his failure to be there for Operation: Volcano. Outback shows more guile and intelligence than many of the Autobots we will see in this title. Shame he fades into the background after this story arc. He'd have been a good pov character on Cybertron to fall back on as opposed to the Xaaron/Wreckers contingent. Bang up art by Jeff Anderson.
Andy
|
|
|
Post by legios on Aug 22, 2008 20:36:22 GMT
"Under Fire" is one of those stories that I feel has a good idea inside it, but is a little let down by some of the execution. As Andy has observed there is a potentially very interesting character arc for Magnus here but it suffers from a lack of set-up. I can understand what they were doing with Magnus, and can see how it could be made to work. His bio suggests he is not good with complex situations, it suggests a personality that is most comfortable with certainty and simple situations. So the idea that he might fixate on the "known fact" that there is a Decepticon imposter on the lose and, driven by his guilt and anger for self-percieved failings, barrel headlong down that line without considering the alternatives could have been quite interesting. Unfortunately it doesn't work without a little bit more work to set it up. I can see why they rethought Magnus a bit after this. Not that it is a bad idea, just one that is rather botched.
Outback I will agree is a very likeable Autobot and would have had a lot of potential as a viewpoint character. He is a bit of an "everybot" - not an elite combatant, not a high ranking officer, just another Autobot in the war. He could have given a nice flavour to the war on Cybertron if they had come back to him.
I'd have to give "Under Fire" marks for trying some interesting stuff, but they get points deducted as well for somewhat fumbling what they did try.
Karl
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 22, 2008 20:47:27 GMT
I wouldn't call Outback an "everybot" - he was too much of a maverick for that. If the standard Autobot soldier was Outback, there wouldn't be much point having officers. Somehow though, Outback never annoyed me in the way that other mavericks like Blaster, Grimlock and Kup did. Probably because he was quite modest, and intelligent beyond his pretensions.
"Under Fire" could have been a great story if they'd extended it and shown us Megatron's deception in detail, making it a really clever and convincing plot that could leave Magnus with no option but to believe Prime to be an imposter. Instead they left it vague, so that it gave the impression of being neither a work of a manipulative genius nor one that deserved to fool someone of moderate intelligence.
Martin
|
|
|
Post by charlesrocketboy on Aug 22, 2008 22:20:40 GMT
I wouldn't call Outback an "everybot" - he was too much of a maverick for that. If the standard Autobot soldier was Outback, there wouldn't be much point having officers. Somehow though, Outback never annoyed me in the way that other mavericks like Blaster, Grimlock and Kup did. See, that just proves he is an everybot - half the cast seem to be mavericks! In fact, command hierarchies and structures were extremely lax in Marvel, with no overall Autobot/Decepticon commanders and seemingly sporadic communication between the groups at times - it's only with IDW they seem like structured armed forces. Then again, Marvel was showing the war when it was in the dregs and most people were dead, the Autobots were reduced to pockets of resistance and the planet was incinerated, so it makes some sense (the Future Transformers had a definate "Rodimus and Shockwave/Soundwave are in charge" set-up by comparison).
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 23, 2008 6:52:16 GMT
Not sure I agree with that, Charles. I think it's more a case of the stories focussing on the mavericks, and almost never showing us what was going on in the more disciplined parts of the Autobot army. But we did see glimpses of it, e.g. when Xaaron tours the Autobase beneath Iacon, where preparations are going on for Operation: Volcano, and when Optimus Prime addresses Xaaron's troops alongside Xaaron and Ultra Magnus before returning to Earth. We started to see some of these troops as individuals only in the 'Matrix Quest' era (Nightbeat's trio, the Triggerbots, the mighty Longtooth & co.). And the Triple Changers and Sparkabots I suppose, though the latter were dull as ditchwater. Lastly, as the Unicron war approached, we caught glimpses of the Autobot Double Targetmasters, who were a sixth trio solidly under Xaaron's command.
A rehabilitated Outback returned later on in 'Underworld' alongside Pipes and newbie Tailgate.
Hmmm, seems that excepting the Micromasters, Xaaron's army was organised in teams of three. He was also quite good at off-loading potential trouble-makers, sending the two Micro teams he didn't like and Pretender Grimlock to Earth as soon as the opportunity presented itself.
The mark of a good commander - send the trouble-makers far away where they can do no damage to morale. Pity Optimus Prime wasn't as wise in this regard when it came to the likes of Grimlock, making him his lieutenant instead, which in turn made him look weak whenever he refused to follow orders.
Martin
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Aug 24, 2008 11:31:36 GMT
For me, 'Under Fire' is an example of one of those stories that does not hold up to analysis when taken out of context. It's easily forgotten that the UK strips had a shelf-life of one week, with perhaps a collected comics reprint which would be on shelves for around 3 months and then gone. In the context of another weekly instalment and set-up for the Big Exciting 100th Issue, it's perfectly fine. It does the job. It's pacey. Jeff Anderson puts in a good shift, especially page 1 where he makes essentially a whole page of 'flying box not doing much' visually interesting. Outback is a fun new character. The strip just does not hold up when examined from a 2008 adult perspective.
-Ralph
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2008 17:12:01 GMT
Changing the tone of this thread slightly the Adbot is now bringing up something about an online RPG game called Asda Story. Is this something where yu run around a supermarket patting other peoples arses to see if they have got some spare change in their back pockets before Dale Winton comes along for some unknown reason?
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Aug 24, 2008 23:09:58 GMT
So long as there is an option to atomise Dale Winton.
This week, for a change, a mini-series. The mighty...
HEADMASTERS
*removes head to show peaceful intentions*
-Ralph
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2008 9:15:48 GMT
The Headmasters mini-series was an up-and-down story for me. It started off moderatly well then tailed off a bit at certain points in the middle before coming back at the end.
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 25, 2008 16:03:23 GMT
I get the impression Headmasters was the last TF story Bob Budiansky really put his heart and soul into, and tried to write his best on. Yeah, the first half of #3 and the first half of #4, which are taken up with run-of-the-mill toy intros for the Technobots, Terrorcons, Monsterbots and Targetmasters, could have been done without, but ignoring those it's a solid, intelligent, original and coherent piece of work. I might even go so far as to say there hasn't been a better TF plot since, dealing with war, peace, trust, fear, treachery, love, ideals, errors, duty and redemption.
If the unnecessary toy promos were cut out (though the war-mongering character of Kup must be kept in), and the artwork for the robots was more consistent, I think it'd be damn near perfect.
My favourite TF comics post UK #100.
Martin
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Aug 31, 2008 10:52:20 GMT
It's cracking stuff, though I would have prefered it if HM had kept going with those new characters rather than going into the main strip when it all got a bit cluttered. And killing off Galen as soon as HM crossed over into the main title still annoys me.
-Ralph
|
|