Batwoman

[Toph]

Batwoman premiered here, tonight.
I guess it's some time earlier than her appearance in last year's crossover, because the pilot is the origin story.
Without spoilers, because I don't really have enough to talk about, it didn't blow me away like Black Lightning and Legends did.

However that's not saying I didn't enjoy it! It was a really simple plot, which is honestly refreshing. And Ruby Rose gave a significantly better performance than in the crossover. Still kinda stiff and a bit wooden, but I think she'll improve.

The early previews really did it a disservice. Making it seem campy, but not quite as much. Lines that were chosen to sound big and exciting that instead came off cringy, are actually in context not really a big deal.

[Toph]

Aug 9, 2020 21:16:56 GMT Pinwig said:

The whole crisis event was just a mess over here, which is a shame because it was really good.

Not sure how Batwoman is going to cope without Ruby Rose though. I enjoyed the series but to go forward without the lead character and not recast her seems odd. That said, there are enough potential replacements in the series ready to take her place.

They already announced the new Batwoman.
Javicia Leslie, who's best known from God Friended Me (never seen it), but was also in MacGyver (kinda remember her there).

She'll play a new character Ryan Wilder, who's a former drug runner, and lives out of her van.

I kinda don't know how to feel.
I wasn't fond of Ruby at all in the beginning. She was just really wooden. But good lord did she improve. She really found the role, by the end.
So if they had recast her between Crisis on Two Earths and Batwoman, I'd have not missed her at all. But the second half of Batwoman, I've been really into it.

I was really afraid for a while that they'd recast Kate and then use stupid face swapping shenanigans to explain it. So I'm glad they didn't do that.
But also Batwoman is in general a fairly new character, and not a legacy like Green Arrow is.

All THAT said, if they're handing over Batwoman to someone else, part of me would prefer another established character in the batfamily, like Alicia Fox (a future Batgirl, and would be Luke's sister. And Javicia would be great casting for her).

All THAT said, the little I've read about her, Ryan sounds like a really fun character.

I don't know how to feel.

[Toph]

I do wonder why Ruby's leaving, though.

I know some people can't handle the stunts and workout regime on action shows like this. Sometimes people can't handle the costumes.
All of these are valid reasons. But like if that was it, she doesn't have to stop being Kate.

I just hope she's okay.

[Pinwig]

Have to see when the series eventually cones back. It'll need to be a partial reboot in format I think, the first series was so tied to Kate's family that a random new Batwoman would be irrelevant to that narrative. Some kind of twist would be needed to make the existing characters care about a Batwoman who has nothing to do with them.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Didn't particularly enjoy season one, but thought I'd give season two a go since it has a new lead.

www.channel4.com/programmes/batwoman/on-demand/70769-001

Episode one increased its appeal
When it introduced the

SPOILER: Click to show

BATMOBILE.

Martin

[Toph]

Ryan has been fantastic. I adore her, and Javicia is just... So much better than Ruby Rose.
It wasn't until the end of Season 1 before Ruby stopped being a wooden plank and actually gave us some emotion.

[Nigel]

Even after just two episodes (not yet having seen last night's), I'm already enjoying the new girl more.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

May 3, 2021 16:08:16 GMT Nigel said:

Even after just two episodes (not yet having seen last night's), I'm already enjoying the new girl more.

I watched last night's. Definitely an improvement on season 1, but I've been binge-watching Pennyworth this weekend and it's a far superior Batman spin-off. Top quality, albeit gory in places. Game of Thrones meets Agent Carter. So Batwoman inevitably drops down in my estimation a bit as a result.

Martin

[Nigel]

What service are you watching Pennyworth on?

[Grand Moff Muffin]

May 3, 2021 16:38:03 GMT Nigel said:

What service are you watching Pennyworth on?

Watching season 1 on Blu-ray.

But it appears to be also on something called Starzplay via Amazon Prime. Hmmm, might be able to get season 2 for nothing if I sign up for a 7-day free trial of that. (Season 2 not yet out on disc.)

Martin

[Toph]

I couldn't make it through even one season of Pennyworth. Just way too boring for me. Also the gruesome public execution in the pilot just pretty much killed suspension of disbelief in this show, right from the start.
But Batwoman just keeps getting better.

Minor non-plot related spoilers:

SPOILER: Click to show

I also both love and hate the new Batmobile.
I love it in that it's the most realistic and truly believable batmobile we've ever had.
An incredibly teched out supercar. It's practical and discreet (in as much as a supercar can be), and if it drove past you on the freeway, it'd grab your attention, but not to make you go "HOLY SHIT A SUPERHERO!"
It's also practical in that it's within the show's budget, and something that they can keep functional.

But a huge part of me is addicted to the fantasy batmobiles. I don't like all their designs, but they're all more fun to a degree, than a teched out supercar.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

May 3, 2021 17:00:08 GMT Toph said:

Also the gruesome public execution in the pilot

I didn't understand that at all. Completely unnecessary. Thankfully not repeated in subsequent episodes. But the acting and dialogue are great. And Alfie is so obviously intended to be the young Michael Caine Alfred.

Pennyworth is very much like the Kingsman movies in many ways. OTT but stylish and witty.

Re: Batwoman Batmobile - too much like a Bond car for my liking.

Martin

[Nigel]

Watching season 1 on Blu-ray.

But it appears to be also on something called Starzplay via Amazon Prime.

Ah, I thought it be on a channel I can watch. Starzplay is a paid add-on.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

May 3, 2021 17:14:48 GMT Nigel said:

Watching season 1 on Blu-ray.

But it appears to be also on something called Starzplay via Amazon Prime.

Ah, I thought it be on a channel I can watch. Starzplay is a paid add-on.

Hmmm, yeah, I thought I might be able to get a 7-day free trial of it, but I'd have to pay to get on Amazon Prime first. And I'm not due for another free trial of Prime just yet. I shall wait for the s2 Blu-ray.

But if you're already on Amazon Prime you can get 7 days of Starzplay for free.

Martin

[Toph]

May 3, 2021 17:10:39 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

May 3, 2021 17:00:08 GMT Toph said:

Also the gruesome public execution in the pilot

I didn't understand that at all. Completely unnecessary. Thankfully not repeated in subsequent episodes. But the acting and dialogue are great. And Alfie is so obviously intended to be the young Michael Caine Alfred.

Pennyworth is very much like the Kingsman movies in many ways. OTT but stylish and witty.

Re: Batwoman Batmobile - too much like a Bond car for my liking.

Martin

Yeah, I didn't care for Kingsman. And I generally do not particularly enjoy anything in the spy genre.
I didn't even like SHIELD as an organization in comics, until it shifted from espionage, to "organization that deals with X-Files type weirdness."

[Stomski]

Urgh, those radio talkshow announcer narration bits with city b-roll drone shots are terrrrrrible. I don't know why I persist with this show, I seem to get very little from it. Season 1 I didn't really enjoy until late into it and Season 2 (up to end of Ep3 so far) doesn't hold much interest either.

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}Still... worth watching for the mention of a painting by Jack Napier if nothing else.

[Toph]

The voiceover has meaning. Not so much to the DCU or anything, but to the queer community.
She's voiced by an openly lesbian pundit named Rachel Maddow, who hosts the highest rated cable news show on american television.
Her playing the voice over is kind of a geek out moment for both her, and the cast/crew.
Here's a bit if her, for anyone curious. Hidden under the spoiler for those who aren't:

SPOILER: Click to show

Jack Napier isn't the only name turning up- spoiler for those who don't mind knowing

SPOILER: Click to show

Black Mask is the central villain for season two.

[Stomski]

Anything that promotes inclusivity and broader appeal is ok in my book.

[primenova]

I got the series 1 box set £7 from Sains with Dr Who 2 for £14

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I stopped watching this when it moved to an after-midnight slot on TV. Now I'm 6 episodes behind and can't summon the enthusiasm to catch up on All4. I fear season 2 episode 9 may be where Batwoman and I part company...

Martin

[Pinwig]

I was dubious Batwoman would work without Ruby Rose, so it's taken me a while to get to season two, but I'm 13 episodes in now and really enjoying it. How they worked her character out and brought the new one in I thought worked well. I did think the Kate Kane related twist in ep 9 wasn't necessary, they'd just very suitably resolved all that, but then realized Alice as a character would become redundant without it.

Rose leaving has meant the show has become more balanced as a team effort, all the characters have a purpose. I thought that was something that never worked with Supergirl in its later seasons when the focus shifted from just Kara to the group. The drip feed of the various twists has kept it interesting, two great ones in ep 13 that are making me want to binge the last five eps. So far here we've only had the first half of season three, but I'm glad there's more to come.

[Toph]

Season 3 is absolutely spectacular.

[Toph]

And I mean it is proper comic book fun.
While Legends is my favorite show, BWS3 may well be my most favorite of all the arrowverse stories.

[Pinwig]

Finished season 2. That was really good. So fast paced for an Arrowverse series. Every time there was a twist you'd think, okay that's what the next few episodes will be about, then it gets resolved twenty minutes later with another twist. These series work so much better as an ongoing narrative instead of the old villain of the week format with a vague subplot that takes twenty episodes to get anywhere.

Watching Titans season 2 now in the hope Batwoman season 3 part 2 comes back on E4 soon.

[Toph]

Batwoman and Legends were canceled.

[Pinwig]

What's still going Arrowverse-wise now then? I've lost track.

[Toph]

The only confirmed arrowverse renewals are The Flash (which I thought was in its final season), and Superman & Lois.

They also renewed All American, Walker, Nancy Drew, Riverdale, and Kung Fu.

Naomi and Stargirl are still unaccounted for.

Flash is getting a little long in the tooth, while Superman & Lois has continually failed to get me invested in it.

[Pinwig]

Only two left! Wow.

[Toph]

So I hadn't heard anything about Stargirl because it isn't part of this conversation because season 3 had already been cleared and is already part of the fall line-up.

Current rumors are that Batwoman and Legends were cut for Naomi and Gotham Knights. Out of four shows they only wanted to keep two.
All this has something to do with a merger because CW is for sale/was sold.

I think Doom Patrol and Titans are in trouble because after leaning so heavily into the multiverse angle, WB wants the success Disney has had by linking all it's D+ marvel shows directly into the MCU.
All of their upcoming DC content fot HBO Max is DCEU based.

[primenova]

I'm downloading 3.1-7

So it's waiting for them to air 8-13?