How Do Transformers Fire Their Weapons?

[The Huff]

Dec 28, 2020 11:34:25 GMT The Doctor said:

Dec 28, 2020 11:25:26 GMT Philip Ayres said:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/TF_pr/status/1343391219859251202

But it looks daft. He's literally holding the handle of the handle of the gun he comes with!

-Ralph

No trigger either.
Actually, do Transformers always have triggers on their guns or do they fire them in a robotic telepathic electronic type way? Megatron certainly does - he just wills his fusion cannon to fire. Galvatron does too, but I remember an episode of the cartoon where they drew a stupid trigger on his beam cannon.
Shoulder mounted launchers seem to just fire on will too.

[Benn]

I think with the arm and shoulder mounted weaponry, it's like flexing a muscle to trigger it. At least when I played pretend it always was!

[Andy Turnbull]

I'd always assumed with the mounted weapons they were part of some onboard system so triggered by a mental command.

[Benn]

Targeting systems visually based, though. You look at something for long enough for the lock to be set. If they can see it, the missiles will try and go for it. Energy weapons just fire in a straight ahead manner.

[The Doctor]

If the weapons are indeed part of a Transformer, I always assumed a mental link ordered the weapon to fire.

-Ralph

[Toph]

Well I fogive triggers on toys because that would be a pointless thing to not only sculpt, but it'd get in the way.

In fiction though, even in Sundow which often forsakes details, handheld guns usually are shown with triggers.

I realize now I guess I've never put any thought into how arm/body mounted weapons work. But I guess I've always assumed it was a mental command, same as mentally commanding your legs to walk or your hand to grasp.
However... It must not be quite that straightforward because we've seen transformers who do not belong to those weapons use them.
We've seen transformers slap Megatron's cannon to their arms and use it like him (at least, I think we have?) And we've seen autobots pick up Starscream's null ray and fire it like a rifle.

What has always fascinated me, even if I don't like the execution of the toys, are Targetmasters.
I've always viewed these as the transformer outsourcing the weapon's function to the nebulon.
The nebulon takes care of the targeting and firing functions, while the transformer just points and focuses on survival.
And as they're bonded, there is a telepathic element between them.
Someone like Ratchet would benefit greatly from being a targetmaster. In an active fire situation, he can just hold his gun up while his partner provides cover fire, and he can focus his attention on helping people. In a calm moment, his partner can act as a nurse.

[The Huff]

Yes, Brawn has used Megatron's fusion cannon in the cartoon and Arcee pinched Galvatron's cannon too.

Megatron (in gun mode) can also fire on his own, but for some reason he let's fellow Decepticons wiggle his trigger - which is quite disturbing when you think about where it is in robot mode on the original toy.

Targetmaster Nebulans do the aiming - but surely the Autobot has to point them in the general direction don't they? Or can the shots just come out the barrel at any angle the Nebulan wants? Perhaps Targetmasters would make more sense if the gun was mounted on them somewhere, like Stepper.

[Toph]

That's what I said. The transformer just points the gun while the nebulon handles the targeting and firing.

[Andy Turnbull]

If the Transformer still has to point them in the right direction, that is a large part of targeting.

[Benn]

Maybe it's to do with stuff like range and calibration? The TF points and maybe pulls the trigger, but the Nebulan does the complicated detail targeting on the fly?

[Benn]

And does two consciousnesses improve reaction times, maybe? At least in theory? Two sets of senses in one place on a battlefield doubles what stimulus they can take in. So you got threat assessment, proximity, targeting, range, and picking the right moment to actually take the shot all working at twice the mental speed of a normal TF.

[Toph]

Dec 28, 2020 18:29:18 GMT Andy Turnbull said:

If the Transformer still has to point them in the right direction, that is a large part of targeting.

Isn't that what pointing the gun means?
I'm sorry if i'm not clear because I think that's exactly what I'm saying.

Point the gun in the direction of the person you want to shoot, the nebulon targets that person and shoots them.
And anyone else in that general direction they want to shoot.

I'm genuinely sorry if i'm not clear about thus because i literally don't understand how to make it clearer than "points the gun" can be.

[Toph]

I mean it's not like "hold the gun straight into the air and it shoots anything." It still has to be pointed towards the area you want to shoot in order to target it.

[Andy Turnbull]

Yes, but the fact the Transformer is involved by POINTING limits any real benefit of the targetmaster as they are still the most important part the process and unless you are using some amazing weaponry if your target is not in line of sight of what the Transformer is pointing at, you aren't going to be targeting it.

The Nebulan ia very much a junior partner and tbh pretty redundant.

That is my point, the Targetmasters contribution to the actual targeting is pretty minor.

[Andy Turnbull]

Out of all the binary bonding gimmicks Targetmasters always struck me as the most contrived and least beneficial.

[Toph]

Dec 28, 2020 18:49:25 GMT Toph said:

Dec 28, 2020 18:29:18 GMT Andy Turnbull said:

If the Transformer still has to point them in the right direction, that is a large part of targeting.

Isn't that what pointing the gun means?
I'm sorry if i'm not clear because I think that's exactly what I'm saying.

Point the gun in the direction of the person you want to shoot, the nebulon targets that person and shoots them.
And anyone else in that general direction they want to shoot.

I'm genuinely sorry if i'm not clear about thus because i literally don't understand how to make it clearer than "points the gun" can be.

Dec 28, 2020 18:53:02 GMT Toph said:

I mean it's not like "hold the gun straight into the air and it shoots anything." It still has to be pointed towards the area you want to shoot in order to target it.

Okay so a regular human gun, unless you're just randomly shooting in the general direction and hoping for the best like on TV, then you have to aim and sight the thing you want to shoot, for a precision shot.

One could argue that regular TF guns have an indiscriminate targeting system that automatically locks on to a target like a handheld phaser in star trek.

I'm saying targetmasters aims their partner in the general direction of the enemy, the nebulon calculates, tracks, locks on, and fires themself, with the same precision of someone who actually looks down a sight and lines up the target. Which leaves the cybertronian free to focus on other things, like not being shot.

[Andy Turnbull]

Targetmasters would have made more sense if they were mounted as opposed to being hand held.

[Toph]

Well if it's mounted to your shoulder like Stepper, then you have to step out into the line of fire to use it. You have to face your entire body to your enemy to use it.

Holding it like a pistol, you can reach around a corner, or whatever cover you're ducking behind, and still have the precision of a sniper without you (the bigger target) actually being able to see the enemy, as long as your gun can see it.
If your partner is fixed to you, you have to step out in the line of fire for it to do it's job.

[Andy Turnbull]

Dec 28, 2020 19:39:52 GMT Toph said:

Well if it's mounted to your shoulder like Stepper, then you have to step out into the line of fire to use it. You have to face your entire body to your enemy to use it.

Holding it like a pistol, you can reach around a corner, or whatever cover you're ducking behind, and still have the precision of a sniper without you (the bigger target) actually being able to see the enemy, as long as your gun can see it.
If your partner is fixed to you, you have to step out in the line of fire for it to do it's job.

Didn't say the mount would be fixed, would have a range of movement.

[The Huff]

Dec 28, 2020 19:19:44 GMT Andy Turnbull said:

Targetmasters would have made more sense if they were mounted as opposed to being hand held.

And that's what I said. (Smiley face emoji).

But you are right - if the Nebulon is mounted (like Stepper) it can aim/revolve/rotate around in any direction it wants, not needing the Transformer to aim it at all. Leaving the robot's hands free to do other things in battle - like hold and shoot extra guns themselves. (Or check their phones).

Targetmasters might not make the best sense in fiction, but the toys worked better than Headmasters to me, as you had two fully functioning figures. Just a shame they couldn't sit in the cockpits. Perhaps the opposite should be the feature - that their guns can change into extra troops.

[Andy Turnbull]

Targetmasters in Sunbow make slightly more sense than in Marvel as at least ita grizzled resistance fighters in the Autobot guns as opposed to random folks from a world at peace.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Dec 28, 2020 19:19:44 GMT Andy Turnbull said:

Targetmasters would have made more sense if they were mounted as opposed to being hand held.

They were mounted in vehicle mode.

(Which brings up another issue with TMs - unlike Headmasters, whose partners could sit inside them in vehicle mode, Targetmasters wanted the Nebulan to be in gun form all the time, and there was no place for the Nebulan being in humanoid mode whichever mode the robot took.)

Martin

[The Huff]

Scourge got the concept right in the comic. Try to take his gun from him and it transforms into a little man and runs away. What can you do about that? Nothing!