Strikes

[Nigel]

I can't claim to know the ins and outs of the all various strikes at the moment; I'm sure there are legitimate grievances. I understand that ambulance workers have a fair claim about working conditions, for example. However, many of the striking workers seem to be doing so with the aim of getting more pay in the face of the increased cost of living. For these workers, I have no sympathy. Most people are impacted by the cost of living and most people don't have the luxury of striking; they just have to cope. If wages go up, then costs and prices go up for everyone. We're going into recession and the striking workers should consider themselves grateful to have a job at all. I, of course, have the perspective of a self-employed worker that has no guaranteed income, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no maternity pay or any of the other benefits that the striking workers have; like many small businesses, I'm in the position where I can't afford to employ staff but if I was, I'd be legally obliged to pay the staff more than I take home myself, as well as providing the other benefits. Meanwhile, there are strikers in secure jobs that are paid well above minimum wage yet want significantly more.

The economy hasn't recovered from covid; businesses and industries haven't recovered. The strikes are making things worse. I was listening to the radio the other day, where they were discussing Boxing Day sales; footfall but not sales were up, though not to prepandemic levels; the expert pointed out that the figures would have been better if not for the train strikes. Another example: the hospitality Industry is expecting heavy layoffs following a poor festive season because of the train strikes. Then there were all the workers that were unable to return to work after New Year because of rail strikes. A personal example: when I was selling full time online, I'd send dozens of parcels daily in the run-up to Christmas, with the most I ever sent in one day being 100; I'm glad I don't rely on this income any more because I sent only forty parcels for the whole of December (including after Christmas), and I can put the fall down only to the postal strikes - it's not the cost of living, as then shop sales would have been down too and they were significantly up on last year. But there are plenty of small businesses and sole traders that do rely on this income, especially at Christmas, and I feel for these people; I'm sure there will be many who've been put of business this Christmas.

Then there are the more personal impacts caused by strikes. Figures released before Christmas showed that only a third of energy vouchers sent in December to households with pre-payment meters had been redeemed, attributed to postal strikes. People are missing medical appointments and receiving delayed diagnoses because hospital letters are delayed.

In fairness, I should point out and praise those union workers that voted against strike action. For example, while some staff in my local post office seem happy, even smug when talking about the strikes, and blase about their effects on their customers, there's one who's very apologetic about the whole affair. Then there's a local postman who's breaking the picket line, still delivering on strike days but having to do so out of uniform.

[Andy Turnbull]

I'm sorry Nigel, but while I sympathise with any small business affected by the strikes, saying striking workers should be greatful for a job is a load of absolute shit.

Wages are lower than they were in real terms in 2007, there is no money to give Royal Mail/RMT workers pay increases but there is money to pay dividends to shareholders.

You want to be angry, be angry at the ones who are responsible for the situation not the people who are just looking for a fair wage for their work.

[Nigel]

Just voicing my opinion, Andy, and to say that opinion is "absolute shit" is against the spirit of this board.

[Andy Turnbull]

Jan 5, 2023 12:08:10 GMT Nigel said:

Just voicing my opinion, Andy, and to say that opinion is "absolute shit" is against the spirit of this board.

I was voicing my opinion on your statement, which I found morally repugnant. Noone should have to be simply greatful for a job, that thinking is the slippery slope to treating people as serfs, something the current Tory regime would be rubbing their hands with glee to come to pass.

[Nigel]

In a bouyant economy, with plenty of money around, you're right. In the current climate, with a depressed economy still struggling with covid, job cuts, a record number of organisations going out of business and prices on the rise, then a regular income is a pretty darn good thing to have.

[Andy Turnbull]

Jan 5, 2023 12:19:44 GMT Nigel said:

In a bouyant economy, with plenty of money around, you're right. In the current climate, with a depressed economy still struggling with covid, job cuts, a record number of organisations going out of business and prices on the rise, then a regular income is a pretty darn good thing to have.

No, I am right in any circumstance, irrespective of the economy. Yes it's good to be in a job, but you are missing the point. I shouldn't have to be greatful for the fact I have a job. If I am doing my job I should be fairly compensated, when profits are being taken out of the business and I am being asked to do more for less, I shouldn't have to bow and scrape and say thank you to my employers and suck it up. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT PEOPLE ARE BEING ASKED TO DO.

The only way they can force their case is to withhold their labour, and people willing to lambaste them when what two and a bit years ago they were key workers and kept things going. It's disgraceful and shocking how fleeting people's memories are.

[The Doctor]

It's certainly an emotive topic.

I am being personally affected by strikes. I am rarely getting any mail now even weeks after items were posted, which is causing some stress. I was unable to attend a blood donation apppointment as the trains were off. The NHS were unable to arrange an ambulance for a family member and we have had to physically move for up to two months to provide care as they were discharged too early. The NHS does not have enough beds or staff so we are picking up their slack.

All of this combined is causing me a lot of distress. I am also being affected by the cost of living as what was a well paid job a year ago isn't now. So we are making cuts and spending a lot less on discretionary things like hobbies.

However, I personally support all the strking workers. I want the Postie not to be worrying if they can eat tomorrow. I want railway staff to be happy at work. I want NHS staff not to be so knackered and poorly resourced that they cannot provide basic levels of care.

Therefore, I hope all the strikers get the improved pay and conditions they are asking for.

This is of course only my personal opinion. Others are available.

-Ralph

[Nigel]

Withholding labour is not their only recourse, Andy. Just like anyone unhappy with their lot, they have the option to leave. Admittedly, it's not the best time to look for a job; but plenty of people stay in their jobs for long as they need to and then move elsewhere. But no, they've chosen to strike and make everyone else suffer.

As to a fair wage, I know that the local Post Office staff are paid more than a retail shop manager that I know personally. I don't see the fairness in that.

I've only personally, directly been affected by the Royal Mail and Post Office strikes, so I can only comment in a general way on other strikes. I've seen no sympathy for them at the Post Office or in concversations. It's gone beyond inconveniencing people as a bargaining chip, for the reasons outlined above. I don't want to get into an argument about it so will end by paraphrasing a customer to Post Office staff: what have you got to complain about? I'm an ex doctor and have to use the food bank.

[Nigel]

Jan 5, 2023 12:39:26 GMT The Doctor said:

This is of course only my personal opinion.

-Ralph

It's an opinion well said.

[Andy Turnbull]

Yes and them leaving allows for unfair salary and conditions to persist, so withholding their labour is the only recourse to affect proper change.

Your retail shop manager is clearly in the same boat as them, as are many because profits get spaffed to shareholders while costs are continually cut, and the quickest and easiest way to cut costs is staff, either numbers or remuneration or both. Him being paid less than them in no way delegitamises their actions.

Does the ex-Doctor know whether the Post Office worker also has to use a foodbank? Do they know their personal situation, no, they are simply griping.

[Bogatan]

In almost all cases its not just that the individual wants an increase in pay. An increase in pay is one of the only ways to encourage the recruitment needed to fill the huge gaps in the workforces. And until that happens theres no chance of relieving the pressure and creating a better working environment which is the only other way of increasing staffing to the required numbers. Till that happens delay and substandard treatments, work etc will remain a massively destructive issue whether strikes are happening or not.

A year ago a family member burned their hand, they passed out while running it under water and had a small fit or some kind. 999 was called and the wait was 45 minutes (Short compared to now but still too long). When they arrived the treatment they provided was first class, no issues at all, They gave the option of taking them to the hospital, but they made it clear that, A, in their expert opinion it wasnt neccesary as there were people to keep an eye on them and B, the wait times in the hospital meant they would have to remain in the ambulance for likely 4-5 hours before being seen. While they didn't say it the knock on affect of that was the paramendics would be out of action for those 4-5 hours as well.

All of this, the Doctors (when they strike this year) and Nurses striking is about getting the needed funding at every step of the system starting with pay levels needed to retain ands recruit and then possibly most importantly to support social care, so that the 30% of hospital beds with otherwise ready to be discharged patients can be handed over to social care and those 5 hour waits for beds in ambulances can be brought back down to workable times (now far longer a friends Dad was waiting in an ambulance for 9 hours with no strike action involved).

Teachers, postal, bus and train strikes while less life threatening are all addressing the same issues with profiteering and or under funding.

Have fun on the trains when all the ticket office and station staff are cut and the ticket machines dont work and you jump on a train that you cant buy a ticket on board so, when caught, you end up paying a huge fine instead. Look at the train unions dispute in the US if you want to see where this is going.

You think the post is bad now wait till Royal mail gut their operations and turn posties into independent contractors and Yodel/Hermes become the default standard of postal serive in this country.

As for the foodbanks, yeah theres a really good chance the postal worker is using one. Supermarkets are now running their own foodbanks FOR THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES!!!!! Thats where we are at as a country. And cost of living is absolutely playing a huge part in it. Im seeing first hand the change in food buying habits over just the last year. The price increases are huge and the big sellers have leaned heavily into the cheap ranges in a way Ive never seen before. Like they sell so much lines go out of stock for day or weeks at a time, causing the buying pressure to shift to one of the other cheap lines till that also goes out of stock too.

And frankly, strikes work (except when a government with no hope of reelection is happy to drive the country down just to spite the next government or hope to flog off the nhs before losing power). We had local bus strikes a few months ago because they were being paid significantly less than colleagues in a nearby town. The company made a fair pay offer and the strikes ended. The same could have happened with most of the recent strikes (like the lawyers strike) but as I said the government have no interest in resolution.

[Bogatan]

Jan 5, 2023 12:49:40 GMT Nigel said:

Withholding labour is not their only recourse, Andy. Just like anyone unhappy with their lot, they have the option to leave. Admittedly, it's not the best time to look for a job; but plenty of people stay in their jobs for long as they need to and then move elsewhere. But no, they've chosen to strike and make everyone else suffer.

As to a fair wage, I know that the local Post Office staff are paid more than a retail shop manager that I know personally. I don't see the fairness in that.

I've only personally, directly been affected by the Royal Mail and Post Office strikes, so I can only comment in a general way on other strikes. I've seen no sympathy for them at the Post Office or in concversations. It's gone beyond inconveniencing people as a bargaining chip, for the reasons outlined above. I don't want to get into an argument about it so will end by paraphrasing a customer to Post Office staff: what have you got to complain about? I'm an ex doctor and have to use the food bank.

Really important to recognise the difference between the Post Office and Royal Mail.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

As is often the case, I take a see-both-sides view of the situation that will no doubt infuriate 99.9% of people on the Internet.

It feels good to be angry, but while I never have and never will vote Conservative, the current situation is only partly their fault and only partly in their gift to make right. The war in Ukraine is all down to Putin, and it's right to put taxpayers' money into defending them, because they have it a lot worse than we do. While aspects of the pandemic could have been handled better, the government didn't cause that. And Brexit was at least partly the fault of the media and the 52% of voters who went against the advice of the Conservative government of the day. All those things contributed in part to where we are now, and things would be very tough whoever was running the country these last 2 years. Government incompetence of course also made things worse.

Have I alienated everyone with my hard-right views yet?

I think it is oversimplistic to say all strikes and strikers are right or wrong as a point of principle.

The right to decide whether or not to strike is right as a point of principle, and should be defended.

The decision to strike, and the demands made by strikers, are sometimes justified and reasonable, but may not always be - or may be for some of the strikers but not others. Those who voted against striking for whatever reason should be defended as well as those who felt striking was the answer. They aren't a homogeneous body of people in identical circumstances, but unions have to set their demands and negotiating stances broad enough across the workforce to command a majority in support of strike action, which might mean trying to get something attractive for middle-earners as well as low-earners.

I consider myself a middle-earner in the public sector. I got a 4% pay rise this year, which I think is about right. It's way below inflation, but I think middle-earners like me should expect to suck it up in light of the inevitable financial hit to the country from Brexit, Covid and Putin's war. I think it's fine for government to borrow to invest in the future, but not to maintain the standard of living of people like me during a recession.

I think low-earners should get rises in line with cost of living, and this shouldn't just be for public sector workers, but for everyone, through living wages and benefits where necessary. I think top earners should get nothing and be taxed more, but that money shouldn't go to top up the salaries of middle-earners. It should only go to those in the bottom 25%, and to invest in better services.

And I do sympathise with small businesses who take a hit from the withdrawal of services. After all, if the strikes succeed, the strikers will benefit, but they won't.

Martin

[Bogatan]

On the other hand. The current government is made up of the people who actively sought Brexit so allowing that to be used as a partial defence, no.

And predating all those valid points.

*Austerity was considered a stupid idealogical position right back in 2010 when the economy was already getting back on track. Thats the root cause of most current issues.

* Didn't they also fail to implement their own pandemic preparedness plans, or restock the existing one properly?

* It was a choice to significantly reduce the countries gas storage capacity over the last few years

* It was choice to sell off Royal Mail.

* And to keep reprivatising the rail companies even when they consistantly perform better when renationalised after private mismanagement.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Jan 5, 2023 17:20:36 GMT Bogatan said:

On the other hand. The current government is made up of the people who actively sought Brexit so allowing that to be used as a partial defence, no.

I just said it's not _all_ their fault. It was _also_ the fault of the complicit media, some business leaders, members of other parties and large segments of the voting public. You can list things the Conservatives have done wrong all day long and I won't argue with you, but you can't deny that other factors and people have also contributed and would have made this a tough time (albeit less tough than it is) regardless.

Martin

[Nigel]

Jan 5, 2023 16:52:04 GMT Bogatan said:

Really important to recognise the difference between the Post Office and Royal Mail.

A lot of people don't realise they're separate entities. Which I don't find surprising, really, given that they were one and the same for so long, and so many people now don't participate in the start of the chain and only receive mail: the number of people I've seen in the Post Office that don't know how to send a letter or what to do with a stamp is incredible!

In terms of the strikes, the fact that the two entities' workers are of the same union makes matters worse for individuals and organisations affected by the strikes, and for the economy. The two groups of members have been effectively taking turns at times to strike, maximising disruption.

It's worth noting that I can't fault A&E for how quickly I was seen and treated for my broken ankle on Tuesday. Quite possibly this was because it was a case with heavy swelling near a diabetic's foot. (Diabetes can cause serious foot issues.) I was there for less than two hours in total. I don't know much about the nurses' grievances, but especially after the last few years, that's one profession that may well be deserving of a decent pay rise. That said, pay rises in one part of the NHS usually mean cuts elsewhere in the overall budget, and the 19% rise the union was asking for seems incredibly high - but I think that's just a starting figure for negotiation.

[Bogatan]

Jan 5, 2023 17:27:39 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

Jan 5, 2023 17:20:36 GMT Bogatan said:

On the other hand. The current government is made up of the people who actively sought Brexit so allowing that to be used as a partial defence, no.

I just said it's not _all_ their fault. It was _also_ the fault of the complicit media, some business leaders, members of other parties and large segments of the voting public. You can list things the Conservatives have done wrong all day long and I won't argue with you, but you can't deny that other factors and people have also contributed and would have made this a tough time (albeit less tough than it is) regardless.

Martin

Which I didnt disagree with, that one point though might be valid for the government of 7 years ago, just not for the current one.

[Nigel]

Jan 5, 2023 17:08:38 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

As is often the case, I take a see-both-sides view of the situation that will no doubt infuriate 99.9% of people on the Internet.

Maybe so, but it is was reasoned view.

I consider myself a middle-earner in the public sector. I got a 4% pay rise this year, which I think is about right. It's way below inflation, but I think middle-earners like me should expect to suck it up in light of the inevitable financial hit to the country from Brexit, Covid and Putin's war. I think it's fine for government to borrow to invest in the future, but not to maintain the standard of living of people like me during a recession.

If only more people were taking that attitude rather than striking.


Incidentally, my local Post Office was closed on Tuesday, the day it was supposed to reopen after New Year. I've just been informed that it was an unofficial strike and the workers have been let go as a result. I haven't verified this myself.

[Andy Turnbull]

Yes, because it's only middle earners that are striking.

I'm in a reasonable position currently so can afford to stomach a below inflation pay rise. But guess what hundreds of thousands of workers are not. The people at the lowest rungs are being bled dry for much less reward than they are due. A government can always find money for the projects it wants when it chooses to, austerity has been a decision made consciously by the Conservatives.

And let's be clear the strikes have been going on as long due to the government, hindering any real attempts to negotiate.

[The Doctor]

This article may partially inform some of the current debate:

www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jan/05/cost-of-living-crisis-england-most-deprived-area-birmingham-hodge-hill

-Ralph

[The Doctor]

I'd just like to add that I worked in Social Care for about 20 years and don't want to go back. In the last 10 years of my working time in Scotland I received *one* pay rise so my wages were effectively always declining. Then I had to change jobs and the best option I had paid 4k even less than that (despite being highly experienced and educated to PG level) and I did have to rely on same handouts.

I was sick of being treated like crap. I was mostly lone working, often in dangerous sutuations. I loved helping folk out and despite the crap terms and conditions I never would have left. There comes a point, however, when enough is enough. When doing 1-1 work in deprived areas in unsafe close quarters with complex and challenging people (some with serious convictions) I did often think: "Why am I doing this for minimal pay and no recognition or possibility of job progression?".

So when you see stuff on the news about gaps in social care provision partly caused by retention and recruitment issues there is a certain truth to that. This then has a knock-on effect on the NHS indirectly leading to strikes.

Society is interconnected. Treating some sectors badly affects us all.

I now have an HE Cert, a PG Diploma and two degrees. I still can't get a job that pays near the average wage. I can handle it as my current personal circumstances are pretty good but not everyone can. So I support strikes.

Incidentally, I was once part of a strike (organised by union) when working in Glasgow. That was just to force the employer not to refuse to impliment the *0.5%* pay rise, which they had threatened to do. I had to withdraw my labour just to get 0.5%. The decision was not taken lightly, I felt enormous guilt and it was very stressful. In the end, winning only got us an extra £7 a month after tax, but the principle was important.

-Ralph

[Grand Moff Muffin]

It's OK, it's fine now, Boris had a plan and fixed the social care system. By funding it with that National Insurance ri- Oh. Yeah.

Martin

[Rich]

I'm a teacher. I expect to be going on strike before long. I voted 'yes'in the indicative ballot and I have voted 'yes' in the official ballot. My wages, higher than many people's, but lower than many other people's have decreased in real terms for many years before the pandemic (there is no pass for the Tories re:Brexit in my world). My mortgage increases by 500 a month shortly. A rise was inevitable but the mini budget fiasco increased that rise by at least 350 a month. It is not possible for many people to absorb this kind of thing and say, I'll do it for the good of the country.

The government offered 4% to experienced teachers a year ago (finally get this in my Jan pay) but 8% to new teachers. It's a way of enticing people into a career that then becomes very difficult to leave. Divide and conquer. I cannot change career after 20 years in this profession - there are three other people who depend on my income and we wouldn't be able to survive financially if I had to retrain - my experience is too specific.

The public sector does not exist to prop up Conservative ideology of tax breaks for the wealthy, allowing oil companies to profit from war and building enormous white elephant railways that are carving a huge swathe through the countryside. Would I be willing to have less if it meant a fairer society for all? Yes. Will public sector workers (and workers in industries foolishly privatised by guess who) accepting a fraction of what they're losing to inflation create a fairer society? Not a chance.

Do the government need to be reminded that they cannot exploit their position of being a monopoly employer? Yes, they do.

Does education generate wealth? Not immediately. Does it educate all those people who will one day pay all the tax (and at the same time provide cheap childcare so parents can go to work)?

Society need not be a race to the bottom.

[Cullen]

I support the right to strike (a basic human right) and I support the decision of anyone wishing to strike, whether that be popular with the populace as a whole or not. I'd be surprised if you could find a strike that was purely motivated by greed of the workers. For example Royal Mail Group made profits of £758 million last year with £400m being paid to shareholders. I think it's completely reasonable for the people who generated those profits, the workers, to have a share in the profits and to be paid fairly - especially in the face of a cost of living crisis.

I also reject the narative and the general sentiment that because other people are suffering or unable to negotiate better pay, then no one should get anything. This isn't a zero-sum game amongst workers: train staff, post men or nurses getting paid more does not mean others will be paid less. In fact the opposite tends to be true: people getting pay rises will drive wages up in general. And if you are worried about a wage-price spiral driving inflation then it probably won't, despite what the government say. It didn't in the 1970s and is unlikely to now. In fact if wages don't keep up with inflation economic growth will slow down even further as people will have less to spend.

In general I think you should support people trying to get a better deal for themselves and look to the real causes of this crisis. Remember the strikes didn't just happen overnight: they are a result of failed (sometime non-existent) negotiation and could have been stopped before they happened. There are a lot of the public who don't like strikes like Nigel, especially when they are directly affected, and this is not lost on the institutions negotiating with unions and workers. Public support for strikes, as if that legitimises them, is part of the media narrative, which again suits the institutions trying negotiate down. The rail companies attempted to change the rail workers terms at the end of Nov, right before Christmas - funny that eh? Perhaps they were banking that unpopular strikes around Christmas would give them a better position to impose the new terms.

Having workers at each others throats instead of looking up is Capitalism 101.

Some links:
www.rs21.org.uk/2022/07/10/five-reasons-why-pay-rises-dont-cause-inflation/
theconversation.com/why-wages-should-keep-up-with-inflation-the-economic-case-for-getting-a-pay-rise-186851

[chrisl]

Union members who do not go on strike are often those who will be hit hardest by doing so, rather than some altruistic "I can't inconvenience people" nonsense. Nobody wants to go on strike, it is a last resort by desperate people who are being treated and/or paid unfairly for the work they do. If my union passes the ballot threshold to go on strike - I would, as I am fortunate enough as a middle earner to be able to afford it and it would cause inconvenience. I would not expect a cleaner or member of groundstaff to do the same because they are already in a difficult position and the lost pay would compound their situation.

I am sick and tired of the "me first" garbage being spouted by our right-wing press and selfish individuals who have absolutely no understanding of basic economics (such as our current government). Wage rises do not, in and of themselves, result in inflation. In any capitalist economy, costs and prices are dictated by the forces of supply and demand. Brexit, Putin, and Covid have (especially through the deliberate mismanagement, incompetence, and corruption of the Tory Party) have contributed to shifts in the supply and demand chains, but the underlying problem of low wages/privatisation is what has led us into being vulnerable to such events impacting on already declining living standards / rising poverty.

Anyone in a "non-essential" (this term is meant only in the sense of the fact that people spend their disposable income on them) industry (entertainment, hospitality, luxury goods, etc, etc) should understand the basic fact that people "on the ground floor" being paid more (whether that is in the form of wages or benefits) results in more money flowing around the system, which means that they have more disposable income to spend on 'non-essentials' so more money flows in to those businesses! A low-wage, "high dividends to shareholders" approach takes the money OUT of the system and leads to a race to the bottom where nobody has the disposable income needed to sustain non-essential private businesses.

I fully support all of the striking staff, and will never use (and will withdraw my custom from) any business/service (especially "non-essential" ones) that espouse rhetoric of "Just have to cope", "be grateful for a job". This assault on our public services by some of the richest, nastiest people in the country (in the form of the Tory Party & the right wing press) is a deliberate attempt to make themselves and their rich friends even richer through further privatisation, while some of the most vulnerable people pay the price.

[Nigel]

Jan 6, 2023 16:27:58 GMT chrisl said:

Wage rises do not, in and of themselves, result in inflation. In any capitalist economy, costs and prices are dictated by the forces of supply and demand.

No, wage rises in themselves don't result in inflation. However, if a business wants to maintain profits, then prices go up. Or another alternative is to cut jobs.

It is inaccurate to say that costs and prices are dictated by supply and demand, rather that costs and prices are influenced by supply and demand and vice versa, and wages are often one of the largest fixed costs.

Writing as the owner for seventeen years of a non-essential business (preceded, I might add by six years of economics and business training and well aware of the concepts and factors involved) that has faced significant and frequent cost increases, not only within the business but in my personal spending, I am very much aware of cost pressures and of consumer spending behaviour. I'm amazed, actually, at how inelastic the demand has been this past year for luxury goods; however, I could certainly do without more upward pressure as I try to maintain affordable prices.

For the record, not once have I said that I don't support the right to strike. In most cases, striking usually being the last resort (bar quitting), there must be genuine grievances at play. What I have said is that given the current situation, with the economy far from recovered from covid and so many organisations struggling to survive, I don't support those who voted to strike on the basis of the cost of living crisis.

[Andy Turnbull]

Jan 6, 2023 19:57:39 GMT Nigel said:

Jan 6, 2023 16:27:58 GMT chrisl said:

Wage rises do not, in and of themselves, result in inflation. In any capitalist economy, costs and prices are dictated by the forces of supply and demand.

I don't support those who voted to strike on the basis of the cost of living crisis.

So you don't think those who voted to strike because they are being asked to work for less, many of whom are resorting to foodbanks, skipping meals, unable to afford to heat their homes, face unprecedented mortgage hikes should have done so?

I haven't the words to express my feelings in any way approaching a polite or restrained manner.

[Nigel]

My apologies. Allow me to rephrase. I don't support those that are using the cost of living crisis as an excuse to strike when they don't need to. Those such as the staff I mentioned in my local Post Office that are smug and blase, who are treating the strikes as days off, and talk about the cost of living but could still happily afford to have a staff Christmas party at a restaurant.

[Andy Turnbull]

THEY AREN'T.

Their union is striking, and if the majority of members of a union agree to strike then they all strike. When this happens there will be people who are striking who are probably in comfortable positions already. But guess what, not all of the union membership will be in comfortable positions. So they strike in solidarity of the people who are really in need, because if they don't they weaken the collective bargaining position of the union. How they treat it as individuals is a matter for them, and if some are blase, then what difference does that make to the strike.

Also, you still don't know enough detailed information about their own personal positions, they could be acting blase, because who wants to broadcast they are in a position of poverty? They might be embarassed or ashamed, also what right does a customer have to a genuine insight into their life?

And even if they weren't and they were holding a staff christmas party at a restaurant? Well so what? Should they only be spending to exist, to fulfil their work duties? They shouldn't have nice things, or the odd treat, which given Christmas is once a year it's hardly a regular occurrence now is it?

You are spouting off what can only be charitably described as right wing, recycled Daily Mail drivel. You'll be up for policing what people on welfare spend their money on next.

[Nigel]

I let it slide yesterday, but I am offended that you associate me with the trash that is the Daily Mail. My opinions are my own and I have a right to them.

I am not coming from a right wing position. I am looking at the effect of the strikes on the country as a whole. How people can't get to work. How people haven't received their help with energy bills. How people have missed important medical appointments. How wage increases will lead to price rises for all, or unemployment. Deeper recession.

I didn't want to bring this up, but I buy for food banks because there are people in real need.

As for your suggestion of policing welfare, how dare you! I have a life partner who faced discrimination and lived on benefits for most of her adult life - and that was even before she became disabled. Not that it's any of your business. I know about social injustice, the realities of low incomes and the benefit system, a lot more than I've said here!