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Post by chrisl on Aug 29, 2023 8:45:44 GMT
For those who don't use social media and might not have seen James' posts, I thought it would be worth sharing this on here. He is currently developing a proposal/ideas for a new book that documents the history of Transformers fanzines in the 1980s/1990s and is looking to interview/raid the archives of creators who were active from back in the day. I've already contacted him to express an interest in taking part, but I know there are several people (Matt D, Martin, Andy D, Graham T, Ken) who are more historically historically important (in the context of this project) who may want to get in contact with him to either contribute or request that any reference to them is excluded. Anyone who was a fanzine producer/regular contributor from back in the day can contact James about the project at tfzines40 at gmail dot com. https://twitter.com/jroberts332/status/1695730796248633848 |
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Post by The Huff on Aug 29, 2023 11:02:47 GMT
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Post by chrisl on Aug 29, 2023 16:06:09 GMT
Wow Matt! That is some collection! Assuming each pile is a complete set of all issues of those zines, you might even have copies of things I made but don't have anymore!
Aside from the stuff you produced (Transtrip, CG2), the only obvious significant publications I can see that are missing in the photos are a few of the US zines from that period like Heather Feldman's Maelstrom comic, (which was notable as being one of the first to have digitally coloured prints in during the 90s/won several BotCon art contests), Raksha's ConQuest zine, and Malakai Keller's Victory Saga. Sadly, I think I may have passed my copies of Maelstrom on to someone on here, but I do have a couple of Conquest zines along with a complete digital set of Victory Saga. Ricky Miller's Pathfinders (unless I've missed it) is also a shout for inclusion.
If James were only to interview a handful of creators from that period (excluding those who turned pro) the two essential names would be you (as arguably the king of Transformers fanzines back in the day and, as the editor of CG2, the person most responsible for publishing the early work of Jack, Nick & James), and Graham T who was the first and best of the "Generation 2" TMUK fanzine editors for the way he revolutionised the making of TF zines from cut and paste, photocopied booklets to DTP professionally printed full-colour publications.
Martin would be the third on my list of people whose contribution would be essential to James' project as he was arguably the person responsible for the incredibly tight-knit TMUK continuity of that period. The importance of this is massively undervalued as TMUK was one of the few international fan-fiction groups of the time with a shared universe which arguably improved the quality of its outputs and helped sustain this incredibly prolific period of production). In addition to this, (I believe) his accolade of being the first TMUK fanzine editor/contributor to receive a credit in officially published TF media for his contribution to Simon Furman's TF Encyclopedia, as well as the cover artist for the iconic #1/13 of TFCG2 which featured in the final issue of Fleetway's G2 comic, cements his legacy in the story that James is trying to tell in his new book.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Aug 29, 2023 16:16:45 GMT
I concur with my colleague on all of his above points.
Andy Dornan should get a nod too not just for his fiction but for the Informer and the excellent job it did circulating news and ideas prior to the G2 TMUK and Digital eras.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 29, 2023 18:25:17 GMT
I accept the points being made and appreciate what TMUK fanzines meant to people at the time, but I myself would request not being included as I prefer my amateur work from when I was a teenager and student to be just something produced for a small network of friends at the time and not something that keeps being resurrected decades later for wider/subsequent TF fandom. There are millions of Transformers fans in the world, and thousands of fans who have written and drawn art and stories (and constructed fan continuities) for fun. It's true that a few fan writers and artists went on to become professional and some of those happened to have TMUK roots, and they should be applauded and recognised for doing so, but as a fan who remains just a fan I really don't want to be given special recognition for anything I produced just for circulation among a network of friends half a lifetime ago.
I really don't think it's right to say that the TMUK fan continuity was any better or more special than any of the hundreds of other fan continuities other people constructed around the world, and it would be an exagerration to put it on a pedestal compared to anything numerous other fans who we weren't in touch with were doing at the same time.
I am of the view that if James Roberts and Nick Roche had fallen in with a different bunch of fans rather than with TMUK, their own talents and love of TFs would still have resulted in them becoming the professionals they went on to become.
Martin
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Post by The Huff on Aug 29, 2023 19:50:18 GMT
The book will, of course, be about all Transformers fanzines of the late 80's and nineties, not just TMUK.
It's been quite nostalgic finding and sorting all these 'zines and old Transmasters paperwork etc over the last couple of weeks. The sheer volume everyone produced is simply amazing.
And nice to see how well it has progressed to the completely professional looking fanzines the incredibly creative fans make today. I remember when a colour cover would have been a pipe dream...
(And Andy Dornan has been messaged).
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 29, 2023 19:59:30 GMT
Agreed, Matt, I remember the novelty of when Graham T started doing things with a colour printer for the first time.
Good to hear it won't be biased towards any one fanzine community.
I really don't want to poop any parties, but I am a lot more conscious now of issues around use of personal data (including names), amateur intellectual property and ages of creators than I was in the early days of the Internet. So long as those fans whose work and personal info is included have consented to the inclusion, it'll be great and I'll enjoy reading it when it comes out (while opting myself to remain a non-celebrity fan).
Martin
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Post by chrisl on Aug 29, 2023 22:09:19 GMT
I accept the points being made and appreciate what TMUK fanzines meant to people at the time, but I myself would request not being included as I prefer my amateur work from when I was a teenager and student to be just something produced for a small network of friends at the time and not something that keeps being resurrected decades later for wider/subsequent TF fandom. There are millions of Transformers fans in the world, and thousands of fans who have written and drawn art and stories (and constructed fan continuities) for fun. It's true that a few fan writers and artists went on to become professional and some of those happened to have TMUK roots, and they should be applauded and recognised for doing so, but as a fan who remains just a fan I really don't want to be given special recognition for anything I produced just for circulation among a network of friends half a lifetime ago. I really don't think it's right to say that the TMUK fan continuity was any better or more special than any of the hundreds of other fan continuities other people constructed around the world, and it would be an exagerration to put it on a pedestal compared to anything numerous other fans who we weren't in touch with were doing at the same time. I am of the view that if James Roberts and Nick Roche had fallen in with a different bunch of fans rather than with TMUK, their own talents and love of TFs would still have resulted in them becoming the professionals they went on to become. Martin It was you I had in mind Martin (along with Andy D, and maybe Graham - albeit for different reasons) as someone being really active in that scene during that time period but not wanting their old work being shared with future generations - and that’s totally cool and understandable, I just wanted to alert you to it as (to my knowledge) you don’t use social media. You’re also incredibly modest about things, and I have massive respect for you. While I do absolutely agree that it is your right to deny the use of any material you created, I hope you can work something out with James/Matt about including your cover art to CG2 1/13 in the project (perhaps uncredited and your name/signature photoshopped out?) as it is one of the most iconic images of that time period for various reasons and it’s publication in fleetway’s G2 comic gives it a slightly different status as a historical artefact in the public domain in comparison to your other work (which is rightly private). In terms of other fan groups/TMUK’s output being superior - it wasn’t my intention to make a sweeping generalisation about quality as some of it (especially the early stuff I did as a 13 year old) is utter dross outside of the friendships that incubated it. However there are (objectively) some absolute gems which stand the test of time, went on to influence official media (ie the portrayal of Star Saber), and in the context of the pre-internet/pre-80s nostalgia world, it is highly unlikely that any other multi-National fan group of that size existed, let alone had a highly prolific (if even in terms of volume) production rate for material in such a tightly woven shared continuity. |
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Post by chrisl on Aug 29, 2023 22:17:50 GMT
I concur with my colleague on all of his above points. Andy Dornan should get a nod too not just for his fiction but for the Informer and the excellent job it did circulating news and ideas prior to the G2 TMUK and Digital eras. I totally agree with this. This might seem silly now (and not to disagree with the importance of the things you’ve listed Gavin) but, in that period, Andy’s most overlooked contribution was actually his stylised computer lettering in early CG2. Even in the professional comic world this was ahead of its time as Marvel US were still predominantly doing things by hand. Yes I know Andy used the physical cut and paste method rather than doing it digitally, but at the time, and in that context, it was still revolutionary. |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Aug 29, 2023 22:49:51 GMT
I think it would be perfectly possible for a balance to be found for Martin's (very worthy) contributions to be acknowledged without going into too much detail.
They are very much a part of the story to be told and a matter of historical record which should be honoured while respecting his own desire for a good level of anonymity (and modesty! 🙂).
The CG2 #13 cover as Chris points out is a particular noteworthy moment that could be included without too much direct attribution given the collective nature of how CG2 was produced.
Anyway, conversations for Martin and James to have between themselves. Both have the wisdom and grace to handle it all well.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Aug 29, 2023 22:51:23 GMT
I concur with my colleague on all of his above points. Andy Dornan should get a nod too not just for his fiction but for the Informer and the excellent job it did circulating news and ideas prior to the G2 TMUK and Digital eras. I totally agree with this. This might seem silly now (and not to disagree with the importance of the things you’ve listed Gavin) but, in that period, Andy’s most overlooked contribution was actually his stylised computer lettering in early CG2. Even in the professional comic world this was ahead of its time as Marvel US were still predominantly doing things by hand. Yes I know Andy used the physical cut and paste method rather than doing it digitally, but at the time, and in that context, it was still revolutionary. Now that's the kind of thing that would be interesting to hear more about. I'd completely forgotten that until you mentioned it but it was very distinctive and really helped set the tone of things. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 30, 2023 4:17:25 GMT
your cover art to CG2 1/13 in the project (perhaps uncredited and your name/signature photoshopped out?) That would be fine, though I should point out that it wasn't original fan art - I just copied a picture of Optimus Prime from a still in the Ladybird adaptation of Transformers: The Movie: www.cybernetspacecube.com/tftm/images/art_hires/ladybird_book/04.jpgMartin |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Aug 30, 2023 9:00:09 GMT
WHAT.
All these years...... 😂
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Post by The Huff on Aug 30, 2023 9:10:23 GMT
Yours is far superior, Martin.
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 30, 2023 9:40:06 GMT
I wonder if the book will also consider the early 2000's. While past its peak, the fanzine scene was reasonably healthy until tapering off post-Dreamwave era. It's the period that gave us Eugenesis!
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Aug 30, 2023 9:56:18 GMT
A period definitely worth considering, especially in light of printed fanzines tapering off as digital began to take over. Interesting questions around how that changed the output of fiction in that period.
As well as Eugenesis I still remember fondly G's Interplanetary game here and the supporting (interactive!) fiction that went with it. It was also the era of serials and round robins like DeceptiKombat and Last Odyssey. More writers, faster turnaround, etc.
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Post by The Huff on Aug 30, 2023 10:31:22 GMT
I wonder if the book will also consider the early 2000's. While past its peak, the fanzine scene was reasonably healthy until tapering off post-Dreamwave era. It's the period that gave us Eugenesis! -Ralph A lot of the Dreamwave comics should certainly be included - as most of the contributors were also doing it for the fun of it. Har har! |
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Post by chrisl on Aug 30, 2023 12:07:55 GMT
I wonder if the book will also consider the early 2000's. While past its peak, the fanzine scene was reasonably healthy until tapering off post-Dreamwave era. It's the period that gave us Eugenesis! -Ralph While I'm not against it as there were some interesting developments and great zines during that period, personally, I'd rather have the 2000-2020s (internet fandom & first wave 80s nostalgia to the modern fanzine scene/age of the fanzine contributors turned professionals) kept in reserve for a second book as it is a separate story which would make a really good contrast with the fanzine scene of the 1980s & 1990s. Given that anything James turns his hand to TF wise sells out almost instantly due to his talent & gravitas (his MTMTE notebooks for example), I wouldn't bet against there being a follow-up if the first book sells well (which I'm sure it would). |
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Post by chrisl on Aug 30, 2023 13:12:46 GMT
A period definitely worth considering, especially in light of printed fanzines tapering off as digital began to take over. Interesting questions around how that changed the output of fiction in that period. As well as Eugenesis I still remember fondly G's Interplanetary game here and the supporting (interactive!) fiction that went with it. It was also the era of serials and round robins like DeceptiKombat and Last Odyssey. More writers, faster turnaround, etc. For me, there are several distinct differences between the two eras. During the "golden era" of TF fanzines (1990 - 1999), Transformers was (to all ends and purposes) a dead property. Yes there was Beast Wars from 96-99, but it was a massive departure from its predecessor and the brand wasn't at the level it is at now. At that time, nobody really admitted to being a Transformers fan publicly as it was the kind of thing that wasn't cool. To some extent, that almost "underground" nature of the fanzine scene was arguably one of the things that helped to germinate and sustain it. There was no official TF media for several years, so fanzines were all there was if you were interested in Transformers. In terms of the fanzines produced during this pre-internet period, there was an equal balance between prose, comic, and newsletter/information-based publications which made it accessible for anyone who wanted to make something creative to join the party. For example, you didn't need to be able to draw like the CG2 artist roster, or write long-form prose to make an interesting zine. Neither did you need the level of computer DTP skills/equipment Graham used to push the (then) boundaries of the possible in making TMU. From a production values perspective, Lawrence Evans' "Japan Files" fanzine was quite primitive, but it was (for the pre-internet world) fairly well researched and brought (for the time) rare information and artefacts from Japanese TF media into the UK & USA fanzine scene. While it doesn't stand up to either the modern world view/knowledge on this aspect of TFs or indeed the original translation work and vintage Japanese TF scholarship stuff Lawrence has produced in the last year or so (see the feature coming soon in Desolation #2 - plug, plug), it's still important as a historical source of information about how Japanese TFs were perceived and understood in that context, as well as the nature of TF fanzine production and culture at the time. One of the biggest differences in the post-2000 era of TF fanzines is that the internet made many of the newsletter/information-based fanzines redundant and consequently many of the newsletter/information-based fanzine editors/contributors pivoted to the online medium or disappeared from the scene. In the USA scene, Auto-Update (the king of the newsletters) died out due to changes in the editor's circumstances, while other newsletters of the time evolved into what are now some of the biggest fan-sites online (i.e. Seibertron.com). In the UK, the postal newsletters slowly withered away while creators who were (primarily) known for information-based fanzines pivoted to the web. As Gavin points out, Graham took things to a whole new level of creativity with the Interplanetary game here and the supporting (interactive!) fiction. Another key change during this period was around how the dominant type of publication/fanzine shifted. While there were some very talented and prolific new creators in the scene during this period (looking at the dynamic duo of Turn & Burn here), the bi-monthly, long-form ongoing comic style fanzines slowly died out for a number of reasons including the age/life-stages of the contributors and the return of "official" comic media from Dreamwave. It wouldn't be until the Mosaic project in the late 2000s on the IDW boards that fan-comics (albeit in the form of single-page, one-shots) became a big thing. But importantly, this was only in the digital world. Printed fan-comics were (and still pretty much are) virtually dead aside from the super-high-production value annual one-shot projects. Conversely, as Gavin highlighted above, the early 2000s internet also facilitated the era of serials and round-robin publications (especially prose-based ones) due to the opening up of the various TF communities and the speed with which they could be collaboratively produced. |
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Post by james113 on Sept 1, 2023 12:52:39 GMT
Hello!
It's been a while :-)
Thanks to Chris to creating this thread.
So -- I've been obsessed with fanzines ever since I received TransTalk #4 in 1991. For years I thought about pitching to IDW the idea of a deluxe, coffee table-type softcover celebrating the Transformers 'zine scene'. For various reasons I never got round to it, and when IDW lost the license I put the whole idea to one side.
This year's TF Nation changed that. Nick, Jack and I were asked to do an extra panel after another guest fell ill, and it ended up being about how we got into TFs - which of course meant reminiscing about TMUK. That panel, combined with the usual post-TFN enthusiasm to Do Something and the impending 40th anniversary, has spurred me to pull me finger out and try to make this happen, all in time for an August 2024 launch.
Three other things have helped, actually. The first is having a brother who runs a graphic design company, so I know the finished product will look gorgeous. The second is a new book from Telos Publishing which takes a VERY deep dive into the Doctor Who fanzines of the 60s, 70s and 80s. And the third was the decision to make this a focused project, looking only at TF zines of the 80s (there are ridiculously few) and the 90s. That said, I'm sure a few from 2000 and 2001 will creep in.
The 90s focus came about because of a realisation that hit me during the TFN Panel, namely that ours will be the only generation to ever think that Transformers was dead. Since Beast Wars, it has evolved into an evergreen brand - a global mega-franchise that will ALWAYS persist in some shape or form. But in 1991/2, and again in 1994/5, when G2 faltered, we thought TFs were on the way out. (I know that the Euro range continued and that there was talk of a 1996 revamp even when G2 was dying, but were entitled to think the franchise was on its last legs.)
And so this project has morphed into a visual-heavy celebration of 20th century TF fanzines PLUS an examination of how fandom experienced and celebrated TFs in the days before the internet. I intend to interview as many zine editors and contributors as I can.
We all know that a great many of the fanzines produced in this era were connected to TransMasters - but not all of them were. The Survivors offshoot, the Australian club, some Japanese material... Even Matrix (1988) wasn't badged as a TM product, even if it was edited by the club president. All of which is to say that, as much as I love this club, and as much as I know that the bulk of zines will be TM-related, I am very keen this project isn't *perceived* as 'The History of TransMasters', not least because it will limit the appeal of what is already a pretty niche product.
Matt's already been really helpful, and I just received a nicely detailed email from Chris. I'm hoping that Andy will make contact. It would be useful if, as well as emailing me (tfzines40@gmail.com), we could keep this thread going. It's a very useful way of crowdsourcing info and finding obscure zines.
I have to pop off, but before I go I want to put Martin's mind at rest. I don't intend to include in the book anything that people don't want in there. Where someone produced something of historical importance, like the cover to CG2, I'd hope the compromise is that it's included without crediting the creator. Martin - happy for us to discuss this elsewhere.
Speak soon
James
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Sept 1, 2023 17:13:54 GMT
Where someone produced something of historical importance, like the cover to CG2, I'd hope the compromise is that it's included without crediting the creator. Thanks, James. That's completely fine - you have my complete blessing for that without any reservations. Very best of luck with the project! Martin |
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Post by james113 on Sept 2, 2023 8:10:18 GMT
Where someone produced something of historical importance, like the cover to CG2, I'd hope the compromise is that it's included without crediting the creator. Thanks, James. That's completely fine - you have my complete blessing for that without any reservations. Very best of luck with the project! Martin That's great to hear - thank you! I'd still like a chat (generally, and about TFUK) at some point - I'll be in touch |
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Post by james113 on Sept 2, 2023 8:10:28 GMT
Where someone produced something of historical importance, like the cover to CG2, I'd hope the compromise is that it's included without crediting the creator. Thanks, James. That's completely fine - you have my complete blessing for that without any reservations. Very best of luck with the project! Martin That's great to hear - thank you! I'd still like a chat (generally, and about TFUK) at some point - I'll be in touch |
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Post by james113 on Feb 17, 2024 12:25:51 GMT
Time for an update!
After being distracted by MTMTE books at the end of last year, I'm now focusing purely on this project.
I've interviewed some key people and I've got some more interviews lined up, and I've scanned all of the fanzines in my collection that need scanning. At the moment - apart from actually writing the book - I'm trying to track down zines that I don't have.
It's easier to tell you what I *do* have (either in my possession or have access to), and then hopefully you can tell me what I'm missing:
TransTalk, TransWord, InFormer and InFormer G2 - all issues
CG2 - all issues
Brothers In Arms #1 to #4
Matrix (2000) #1 and #2
TransStrip - all issues
Beast Wars (Dallas, Thomson, Lawrence) - all three issues
Cybertronian Times #1 and #2
Energon up to issue #10
Lost Chronicles #4 and #5, #11 and #12
Microzone #1 and #2
Nova Wars Universe #1
Pioneer #1 to #3
Prime Sacrifice #1 to #3 (Nick Roche referred to it as PRISAC the other day and the Proustian rush nearly killed me)
TF Galaxy #1 to #10
The Blitz
Life And Times of Throwback
Polyhex Wars #1 to #3
TransText (G1 and G2) all issues
BotCon Europe magazine
Last Days of Huffer
Trans Wars #3 and #7
TransFixion #1
Untold Tales #1 and #2
Transforce 2000
Regen CG2 Special/#1
TF Universe up to #27-ish
Hubris and Polaris - most issues
Cybetronian Times #13
T-25
Junk Files Presents The Queen is Dead
333/334
Daily Straxus
As you can see, these include some 21st century zines - that's because I'm doing a short section at the end about post-1999 fan material.
I've not listed Martin's various zines as he's asked for them to be omitted from the book.
Actually, I will have a stab at what I'm missing:
Junk Files
CG2 Holiday Specials
Trans Humans
Transformers Epic
All That Jazz
Jack Lawrence's own Beast Wars comic
CG2 Earthforce
Continued Earth Wars
Tales of Cybertron
The Japan Files
Transformers Power The Convoy Saga
Transformers Desolation (BotCon Europe)
What I'd like:
For anyone behind one or more of the fanzines above to get in touch (tfzines40@gmail.com)
Scans of the covers of those fanzines (or select covers, if it's a long run)
More details on each zine: when did it start and finish, format, brief description of contents, number of issues etc
To be told about any fanzines I've completely overlooked, 1990s or later
If anyone can help, either email or reply to this post.
The plan is to release a deluxe hardback as a one-off at TF Nation, with unsold stock available to buy online. But having just had the printer quotes back, it's such an expensive endeavour that I'm almost certain it'll be a one time only deal. Which is another reason I want to make it perfect.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Feb 17, 2024 22:16:58 GMT
Pinged you an email.
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Post by that_bluestreak on Feb 18, 2024 19:49:45 GMT
i'm really looking forward to this. i didn't know about most of this until it was almost all over, and i've never seen any of these that weren't on the internet in the late 90s. will almost certainly get this book.
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Post by Cullen on Feb 22, 2024 10:21:14 GMT
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chrisl
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Post by chrisl on Mar 2, 2024 22:47:11 GMT
I've sent a whole bunch of scans over for this.
I won't be at TFNation - will there be a way to purchase a copy in advance?
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Post by skillex on Mar 3, 2024 19:41:03 GMT
Yes, I'm also very unlikely to be able to be at TFNation but would absolutely love this book, too. Any chance of a way to pre-order, James?
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Post by james113 on Mar 5, 2024 8:55:27 GMT
Time for another update!
Thanks to Matt sending me a box of zines (that weighed as much as a small hatchback), I've managed to plug nearly all the holes in my (1991 - 1999, printed) TMUK fanzine collection. (I say 'mine' -- Matt's getting all his fanzines back ASAP).
Liane Elliott is sending me another box, and between her and Tim "Trans Spoof" Finn (another kind soul who doesn't mind taking a chance on snail mail), a lot of the American fanzines are covered - not just TMUS, but Survivors and the Australian club, plus oddities like Transformers Infinity and The Transfer that weren't affiliated to any club.
Gavin - I'll be interviewing you about Tales of Cybertron soon
Chris - I've just sent you questions about the Holiday Special series
I'd like to speak to Lawrence Evans about his long-running Earthforce fanzine (forgive me if you're here pseudonymously, Lawrence!); and to Darren Grant (? Forgive me - I'm typing this without the zines to hand) about Trans Humans 97 and 98, two really interesting fanzines I'd not come across until yesterday. Can anyone help?
For those asking about getting a copy of the book, I intend to launch it at TFN in August, but at this rate it's going to be a very big and heavy hardback, so I don't know how many copies I'll have with me. Maybe 50?
After TFN, I will take pre-orders for a one-off, never to be repeated print run, so anyone who wasn't at TFN (or who wants another copy!) will have a chance to get it then.
James
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