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Post by The Doctor on Jul 14, 2008 15:07:27 GMT
He's entitled to his opinion. I can't disagree on any of the points made re: plot. The plot was indeed a mess, by any rules of critique. It was less of a story than a series of loosely linked set pieces with lots of 'Look! It's another character from the past!' moments. In many ways, TSE/JE was this generations The Five Doctors but without Anthony Ainley.
I still enjoyed it, as that is what I was expecting. If the show was like that every week I would be bored very quickly but as a one-off OTT slice of ham it was fine. It wasn't particularly big or clever, but I found it fun to watch. Except for the plot being resolved by Donna apparently flicking some pinball flippers on the Dalek ship. Even on second viewing I had no idea what was going on there. I'm also not sure the bit where Davros names the Doctor as "The Destroyer of worlds!!!!" is as dramatic as the programe makers intended, considering Davros had been trying to completely destroy "reality itself" ten minutes previously!
I much preferred the same writer's Midnight episode though.
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 14, 2008 16:07:50 GMT
Isn't "The Destroyer of Worlds" Tha Daleks name for the Doctor in the Rememberance Novelisation/ NAs ?
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Jul 14, 2008 16:31:55 GMT
I'm also not sure the bit where Davros names the Doctor as "The Destroyer of worlds!!!!" is as dramatic as the programe makers intended, considering Davros had been trying to completely destroy "reality itself" ten minutes previously! "I name you as someone less threatening than me! BURN!" |
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 14, 2008 17:01:39 GMT
In my head what he was saying was: "I name you...BILLY BOB!"
Later, when Doctor 10.5 whispered into Rose's ear, I did not think he was saying "I love you" to prove he really was the Doctor, but "My real name is...Billy Bob."
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 14, 2008 17:27:01 GMT
I got about three paragraphs in and had to stop reading. Somebody really needs to give that guy a cuddle. You got further than me. I read the anti-Christmas rant and decided I really wasn't interested in her opinion on Doctor Who. Martin |
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Jul 14, 2008 17:45:14 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 17, 2008 9:57:42 GMT
Series 4 is being repeated on BBC3, which for those of us without BBC3 means it is also on iplayer. Hurrah.
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Jul 17, 2008 20:35:13 GMT
Except for the plot being resolved by Donna apparently flicking some pinball flippers on the Dalek ship. Even on second viewing I had no idea what was going on there. She is working switches on a machine, and therefore doing something clever with technology. It seems to be that in the last couple of season-closers for New Who there is a machine that exists primarily to be used for switching off parts of the plot. (The Paradox Machine in the previous season, and the random bit of Dalek machinery that can do anything required to turn off the plot as swiftly as possible). I'd like to believe in the case of the Dalek machine there was some element of having a bit of a joke about this tendency in the show. I'm afraid I'm not as confident of that as I would like to be. I'd agree with the blogger about the plot though - or more correctly its absence. The episode was pretty much an excuse to put as many characters from New Who as they could manage in one scene. This became clear to me as soon as Mickey Smith and Jackie Tyler were Deus Ex Machina'd in to turn off part of the cliffhanger. To be honest I'd pretty much expected that approach from the previous episode, so I can't say I felt that much dissappointment. It was the "Doctor Who End of Term Panto" and in that sense pretty much achieved what it was aiming at. (I quite like your "Five Doctors" comparison Ralph, it has helped to coalesce my thinking.) As a bit of one-off nonsense and hi-jinks it was fine - but I wouldn't dare to hold it up to critical scrutiny, it would break up under the strain. I was half expecting Davros to make some comment along the lines of "how dare you be better at destruction than I am!" It was a bit absurd - a genocidal maniac accusing someone else of being a bit handy at killing things. Karl |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 17, 2008 21:25:51 GMT
Mickey's presence is more to do wih how he ends the episode than anything he does in it. He needed to be moved back here for reasons that may occur to you - note who he left with.
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Post by legios on Jul 17, 2008 21:33:46 GMT
Mickey's presence is more to do wih how he ends the episode than anything he does in it. He needed to be moved back here for reasons that may occur to you - note who he left with. Oh indeed, given what they are clearly planning to do with the actor they needed to put him in a certain place. And in fact they are laying the groundwork for this long before those later shots - witness his completely new character dynamic with a certain other cast member that was pretty much sprung on us whole cloth. His actual first appearance in the episode was pure "rabbit out of a hat" - it was the kind of cliffhanger resolution that I haven't seen since some of the more egregious examples in old movie serials. Karl |
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 18, 2008 10:58:15 GMT
I am currently watching The Keys of Marinus* via a certain website. It's a bit mental, while also proving that Terry Nation's best work was written by other people.
Episode 1 was a camp overload, with aliens in gimp suits, a Wise Old Man, many Billy fluffs and Ian being awesome. Then, episode 2 had mad screaming brains in jars! They were great, but not in it enough. Then Billy buggered off on his hols and episode 3 had too much Susan in it.
And now...episode 4...
EDIT: Watched it all now. By all the rules of drama, suspense and good telly, it was all pretty terrible. Yet I could not help liking it. Camp highlights included Mad Bearded Bloke In Hut and Hartnell turning into Quincy QC in episode 5. Sadly, Yartek (Leader of the alien Voord) was not in it much but was brilliantly awful when on screen.
Meglos to watch over dinner. This will be my second attempt to watch it all the way through. I have some ale chilling in the fridge, just in case.
-Ralph
*Well, there isn't a commercially available DVD yet.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 18, 2008 20:52:29 GMT
Keys of Marinus was in my "stories never watched" pile when I finished work. I watched them all. This wasn't the worst. That's cos I'd never seen the Dominators. But it ain't any good either !
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 18, 2008 20:56:31 GMT
The others were Edge of Destruction, Reign of Terror (excelent), Romans, Gunfighters and Dominators.
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 18, 2008 21:40:45 GMT
I just started watching The Dominators this evening. I thought episode 1 was pretty good!
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 19, 2008 22:55:50 GMT
Watched episode 2. Still enjoying it.
Now been through State of Decay. Surprisingly enjoyable for the period when Chris Bidmead was script editor. Can't go wrong with Uncle Terrance.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 20, 2008 18:31:57 GMT
Keys of Marinus was in my "stories never watched" pile when I finished work. I watched them all. That's what I've been doing, including listening to the audio of the missing episodes I haven't heard. I gave The Reign of Terror audio version a go. The VHS had pretty much washed over me. It's much, much better on audio and vastly helped by having all 6 episodes (the VHS missed out parts 4 and 5 as they exist only in audio format which is a shame as they are fairly vital to the plot). I got quite into it. Good stuff. Also on the menu has been the audio version of The Underwater Menace. I have watched the extant masterpiece of camp that is episode 3 more than any man should. Sadly, the other 3 episodes are not quite as bonkers, but Professor Zaroff is good value and you can't go wrong with a crap Atlantis story. Amusingly, the narrator gives up during the mind-bending Dance Of The Fish People in episode 3 and stays quiet. "We shall build a new Atlantis! Without Gods! And without Fish People!" -Ralph |
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 21, 2008 20:40:04 GMT
Finished The Dominators. Not as bad as it's made out but not a forgotten classic either. The first episode is great, but then the story fails to arrive and banal events keep going for another four episodes. The Quarks are fun though and the story is quite visually inventive, so probably one of those stories that will have its strengths brought through stronger when cleaned up for DVD.
Listened to all of The Wheel in Space. A shame only two of the episodes still have pictures as this is great tosh. It is complete nonsense of course and I do have a weakness for Cybermen, but I rather enjoyed it nonetheless.
To the interest of no-one, the stories I have left to watch are:
The Chase
Frontier in Space
The Brian of Morbius
The Seeds of Doom
Warriors Gate
On audio only:
The Smugglers
The Enemy of the World
The Space Pirates
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 21, 2008 20:52:11 GMT
Are you remedying Brain this week ?
Warriors Gate is superb
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 21, 2008 21:16:10 GMT
I plan on picking The Brain of Morbius up as it is on DVD though not this side of a job. The other stories are not scheduled for DVD as yet and so (cough) have been found via Other Means. I usually pick up stories on DVD/CD when available anyway so the Beeb aren't losing any money off me! And I used to have a shitload of Who stuff on VHS!
-Ralph
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 6,057
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Post by primenova on Jul 22, 2008 13:49:25 GMT
They did make a few mistakes in Ep 4.11. One being if that was Leeds then the roads are too wide. Is an area of Leeds that could have looked like the place they filmed in [in Wales] just north of St James in Leeds - but these roads are all on a hill - sloped & thin. It could have passed as Doncaster - see Open all hours, the roads are wider.
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 23, 2008 9:42:52 GMT
Four episodes into The Space Pirates, two to go. My goodness, it's hard going. Unless this picks up soon it could be the most boring broadcast Who story of them all. The extant episode 2 was watchable with some nice sets and good model work, but on audio this thing is just deadly. The biggest crime thus far is that you could take the TARDIS crew completely out of the plot and it would make no difference to the story at all!
Been re-watching some Davisons. Snakedance was much better than I remembered. The King's Demons...no. Just no.
-Ralph
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Post by KnightBeat on Jul 25, 2008 12:17:34 GMT
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jul 25, 2008 15:34:48 GMT
Where do you hear that ? Just cos she's got the Survivors job ....
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Post by KnightBeat on Jul 25, 2008 15:39:47 GMT
It's in the Sun today (yeah I know, but they've been right before). Click on the "won't appear in Torchwood" bit to be taken to the article.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jul 25, 2008 15:41:57 GMT
She's apparently going to be in the Law and Order remake.
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 25, 2008 15:42:50 GMT
Her career seems to be taking off and avoiding the Curse of Who that has affected many a past Who castmember. Good for her.
-Ralph
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Post by KnightBeat on Jul 25, 2008 16:02:02 GMT
It's strange that she has been criticised for her performance in Who by people on several forums. I hope that her casting in these shows demonstrate that she is an impressive actress, who was only limited by some poor writing in season 4.
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 25, 2008 16:56:54 GMT
Oh, I think she's decent enough.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 25, 2008 18:17:53 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 25, 2008 20:56:36 GMT
You were right. Watched it this evening. Very stylish. -Ralph |
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