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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 9, 2009 8:19:11 GMT
Getting its and it's mixed up hardly ever makes the meaning of a sentence unclear to a native speaker. If you don't care about getting it right, that's absolutely fine. Please leave the thread now. If however you would like your use of its and it's to match the rules of grammar demanded by the publishers of all the books in Borders and Waterstone's (Borders has no apostrophe, Waterstone's has one, incidentally), please read on! Re: FICTION: Here Am I, Floating In A Tin CanThe apostrophes look fine to me, except for the few that don't belong grammatically, such as the two in this sentence:  Wheelie near enough counts as a Real Gear character, which the concept on it's own IMO deserved its own Transformers series. Your first "it's" has an apostrophe and is wrong, Ken. Your second "its" has no apostrophe and is correct. Re: What is the TMUK Broadside?So two issues with the same number wouldn't happen and if it did which ever one was done first would get to keep it's number. That "it's" should be an "its". Put simply, if you are shortening "it is" or "it has" to "it's", you keep the apostrophe. If you are using "its" to mean "belonging to it", like the word "his", except belonging to "it" rather than "him", then you don't have an apostrophe. If there is one simple thing TMUK can do to eliminate the maximum number of grammatical errors in fan fiction, it is to get the use of the apostrophe in possession correct. This is his toy car. - correct This is its toy car. - correct This is Bob's toy car. - correct - the apostrophe is needed here because "Bob's" is a shortened form of "Bob his" which we don't use any more. This is Susie's toy car. - correct - the apostrophe is needed here because "Susie's" is a shortened form of "Susie hers" which we don't use any more. This is the school's toy car. - correct - the apostrophe is needed here because "the school's" is a shortened form of "the school its" which we don't use any more. This is the schools' toy car. - correct, but this means the toy car belongs to the schools (plural) rather than the school. Think of "schools' " as a shortened form of "schools theirs". This is it's toy car. - incorrect - this doesn't mean anything, since "it's" must mean either "it is" or "it has", and "This is it is toy car" and "This is it has toy car" make no sense. This is Bobs toy car. - incorrect - no apostrophe, so no possession implied. The sentence doesn't make sense. Please forgive me for this, but I am cursed with noticing every time someone gets this wrong. (Unless it's me getting it wrong.) Martin |
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Hero
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Post by Hero on Feb 9, 2009 8:37:02 GMT
Most of my lecturers at Uni have a simular crusade too.
===KEN
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 9, 2009 8:44:49 GMT
I have a complete blind spot for 'its'. I've been taught many times to do it properly, but I still mostly get it wrong. It's just one of those things.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 9, 2009 8:53:51 GMT
I have a complete blind spot for 'its'. I've been taught many times to do it properly, but I still mostly get it wrong. It's just one of those things. It shouldn't really matter, and 99% of the time it doesn't. But one place where grammar does matter is job applications. I bet millions of applications have been tossed in the bin simply because the recipient spotted an incorrect use of an apostrophe, which changed their overall feeling about the level of education of the applicant. It's unfair, but true. I wouldn't rule out doing it myself, if I were recruiting for a job where I wanted a high standard of writing or typing ability, or English in general. So if you really have a blind spot for any aspect of grammar or punctuation I suggest you have someone else glance over your applications for grammar before sending them. Martin |
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 9, 2009 10:31:22 GMT
I embrace this thread, it's always good to attempt to improve one's grammar (and in my case spelling!).
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Hero
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Post by Hero on Feb 9, 2009 10:50:16 GMT
Its RULES.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Feb 9, 2009 11:04:18 GMT
Good show, Martin. As you know, I'm also a stickler for good grammar.
Curiously, though I've always known the proper use of the "it is" contraction, I don't think I was ever explicitly taught the proper possessive. It's only quite recently that I discovered the simple rule that it's basically the same as "his" and "hers".
On that note, I was appalled just before Christmas to see that Asda was selling a gift set of drinks glasses printed with "his" and "her's". Not long after, there were none on the shelf, leaving me to wonder if they'd been recalled.
This is quite a topical thread. Search Google for "Birmingham apostrophes". (Grammarians, brace yourselves.)
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 9, 2009 11:13:00 GMT
ITs ....
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 9, 2009 11:13:16 GMT
.... Monty Python's Flying Circus !
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Post by karla on Feb 9, 2009 11:53:07 GMT
oh noes, I hope I don't get picked on
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Post by legios on Feb 9, 2009 12:49:38 GMT
It is perhaps an irony, but it has been TMUK who have taught me the correct useage of "it's and its". I was never taught that kind of grammar in school - we were simply assumed to somehow know it without needing to be taught for some reason. Of course, I have also now been trained to notice it a lot out in the broader world as well - you would be amazed how many official documents and letters manage to use them incorrectly.
Karl
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 9, 2009 17:10:13 GMT
A few more examples:
This is the men's toy car - correct - the apostrophe is needed here because "the men's" is a shortened form of "the men theirs" which we don't use any more.
This is the mens' toy car - incorrect - the apostrophe goes where the letters have been omitted from the long form, i.e. before the s.
SO...
the toy car of the boy = the boy's toy car
the toy car of the boys = the boys' toy car
the toy car of the man = the man's toy car
the toy car of the men = the men's toy car
the toy car of Optimus = Optimus' toy car OR Optimus's toy car
(If you use Optimus', the apostrophe signifies the omission of the entire word 'his', which is permitted for ease of pronunciation when the first word ends in the letter s. If you use Optimus's, the apostrophe signifies the omission of the first two letters of 'his' - as it does when the first word doesn't end in the letter s.)
'Its', 'hers', 'theirs', 'ours', 'yours' don't have apostrophes in them any more than 'mine' or 'his', because they are single words, not a contraction of two words.
You would never say "This is their's," because the apostrophe means it is a contraction of two words. What would those two words be? Their theirs?
As long as we have spelling and grammar conventions widely used by professional publishers, people who don't use those conventions in letters, e-mails, blogs, etc. sadly will create an unfavourable impression of themselves. ("Either they don't know or don't care.") There's no good reason for what the specific rules are, and they change from one century to the next - I don't know what the publishing houses' rules of grammar will be 100 years from now - but whatever the current rules are, either you are seen to follow them or seen not to.
And I suppose following the rules helps you avoid confusion about what you mean.
Martin
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Feb 9, 2009 18:32:50 GMT
the toy car of Optimus = Optimus' toy car OR Optimus's toy car... (If you use Optimus', the apostrophe signifies the omission of the entire word 'his', which is permitted for ease of pronunciation when the first word ends in the letter s. If you use Optimus's, the apostrophe signifies the omission of the first two letters of 'his' - as it does when the first word doesn't end in the letter s.) I was always taught that words ending in S should be followed only by an apostrophe, as was my brother's fiancée (who's a year older than me and from another county). She's a primary school teacher and she was taken aback to find that current guidance is to teach "apostrophe S" as the correct form. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 19:35:15 GMT
Maybe an episode or two of Look and Read would come in handy here.
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Post by jameso on Feb 11, 2009 22:26:31 GMT
Misspelling definitely bugs me, loads of people think it has an a in it.
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Post by grahamthomson on Feb 12, 2009 8:28:30 GMT
Which misspelled words definitely bug you, James?
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Feb 12, 2009 10:01:41 GMT
I think he's referring to "definitely" itself.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 12, 2009 11:30:02 GMT
You do realise Graham was making a joke don't you?
Andy
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Gav
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Post by Gav on Feb 12, 2009 11:39:09 GMT
There are no jokes! Not where grammar is concerned!
It's all very serious.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Feb 12, 2009 14:22:13 GMT
You do realise Graham was making a joke don't you? Andy I wasn't sure, to be honest. I had to read James' post a few times before I realised what he meant. It all depends on where you put the emphasis. |
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Post by jameso on Feb 13, 2009 2:48:19 GMT
Surely the second part of my sentence indicates I was talking about a specific word rather than in general?
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Feb 13, 2009 11:07:56 GMT
It does, yes, but the first time I read it, it was as " Misspelling definitely bugs me..." rather than "Misspelling definitely bugs me..." so the rest of the sentence just confused me.  |
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Post by grahamthomson on Feb 15, 2009 19:41:22 GMT
After weeks of speculation, Europe's largest Transformers convention Auto Assembly 2009, is proud to announce it's second voice actor for it's convention taking place over the weekend of 15th-16th August 2009... Tsk, tsk, tsk. |
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Apr 15, 2009 17:32:26 GMT
I was appalled just before Christmas to see that Asda was selling a gift set of drinks glasses printed with "his" and "her's". Not long after, there were none on the shelf, leaving me to wonder if they'd been recalled. Asda is guilty again: a few days ago, I saw a T-shirt with an apostrophe that shouldn't have been there. (I don't remember the slogan.) I can't help thinking that they have a buyer with a recent degree, who doesn't have a proper grasp of English. |
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 14, 2023 21:57:54 GMT
Shocking.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Nov 14, 2023 22:24:16 GMT
Jesus.
So easy to misread that thread title as Martin's Tits Crusade.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 14, 2023 23:44:24 GMT
The temptation to do something naughty with the swear filter....
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Post by Philip Ayres on Nov 14, 2023 23:46:05 GMT
ALSO: THE CURRENT RULES FOR RALPH ARE: RULE 1: DO NOT MIX YOUR DRINKS!!!!
RULE 2: DO NOT EAT THE EGGS
RULE 3: DO NOT EAT PIZZA WHILE DRINKING
RULE 4: NEVER EAT CURRY FROM A CAN
RULE 5: THOU SHALL NOT GET HOPELESSLY HEE-HAWED ON A DODGY TUMMY AND CHUNDER ALL OVER A HOTEL ROOM AND YOUR OWN TROUSERS
RULE 6: THOU SHALL NOT EAT ALL THE CAKE THAT IS MEANT FOR RALPH AND ANDY
RULE 7: THOU SHALL NOT NECROBUMP! |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Nov 15, 2023 5:55:25 GMT
So easy to misread that thread title as Martin's Tits Crusade. Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Nov 15, 2023 9:35:30 GMT
Jesus. So easy to misread that thread title as Martin's Tits Crusade. Ahahahahaha! -Ralph |
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The apostrophes look fine to me, except for the few that don't belong grammatically, such as the two in this sentence: 
So two issues with the same number wouldn't happen and if it did which ever one was done first would get to keep it's number.
