MP's expenses

[Rich]

Firstly, I think the issue of MP's expenses is an important one, and where it's debated in a sensible manner, as it has been in this thread, it’s a debate worth having as interesting points can be raised and we can hope to work towards a proper solution. However, the raving hysteria with which this story has been reported is a more significant problem in British politics than the stupid expense claims put in by MPs who were taking advantage of a legal system. For all that I find a lot of a our leading politicians to be creepy, overly-ambitious schemers, when it comes to corruption, there are a hell of a lot of politicians around the world who make them look like saints. So yes, make changes and strive for the ideal, but for God’s sake keep a sense of proportion (again, I’m not criticising people here, just expressing the views that I keep shouting at radios, televisions and newspapers).

I just wish the bbc would replace the uk version of its site with the international one which has a much greater sense of what’s really important in the world.

Here's another thing that’s really struck me about the reporting in the last week since I've been back in the UK: why is it the ultimate and unforgivable crime of uk politics to change your mind? Surely the whole point of reasoned political debate is to explore the strengths and flaws of proposals? The ridiculous response to every 'dramatic U-turn' is beyond absurd - if the government propose something; or decide something, and the opposition demonstrate it to be flawed; or the will of the people is entirely against it, and so the government changes its mind, good. That's the whole point.

[blueshift]

No-one's saying MPs shouldn't be able to claim expenses, or not claim for living closer to London. It means they can do their job properly.

However stuff like porn, duck islands and tax scamming is nothing to do with their job

[Andy Turnbull]

Friday's Have I Got News For You has some great sport at the MP's expense pun not intended.

Andy

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Wales puts its house in order.

Martin

[The Doctor]

Let us hope the rest of the UK follows this as an example.

-Ralph

[Andy Turnbull]

Indeed.

Andy

[legios]

That is excellent news, and a fine example for the rest of the country to follow.

Karl

[The Doctor]

Draw your own conclusions:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8588803.stm

Personally: what an arsehole.

-Ralph

[Andy Turnbull]

Douchebag.

Andy

[Deleted]

That doesn't surprise me. It's because of them why we are facing a potential hung parliament at the next General Election. The MP's are so out of touch with the people who vote for them that it beggars belief that they think they can do whatever they want.

[kayevcee]

"He said he wanted it increased by about 50% to attract people of the right calibre into politics. He suggested that MPs should not be worse off than GPs, dentists or low-level judges. "

I don't understand this sentiment. Occupations like nursing, social service, holy orders etc are considered vocations- the desire to help those in need is seen as the primary motivation so adequate remuneration for work done is looked upon more as a bonus than as a means of attracting talent. The financial and housing sectors tried to motivate their staff purely with extra money and their combined efforts almost destroyed the economy of the entire planet. Being a member of parliament is a public service first and foremost, so shouldn't it be treated more as a vocation than as an opportunity to line one's pockets and run?

-Nick

[Deleted]

The banks are the same. Some of the greedy fatcat bankers say that they need to pay a high amount of cash in bonuses to attract the right top level bankers. It was these so called top level bankers that put this country in recession in the first place and if thats the case then I'd rather have the bankers of old who served their customers with a smile and didn't ask for high salaries plus massive bonuses otherwise they went elsewhere.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I'd agree with some of the sentiments expressed here, but you also have to admit that there are also massive deterrents to normal decent people who want to help society going into politics - not least having to fight in a never-ending adversarial party-political contest and not be ground down by the way the media and public portray the profession as one populated entirely by scoundrels - which isn't true, but which does mean that the only non-scoundrels who go into politics are those lucky enough to have terrifically thick skins. It's a vicious circle - a democracy needs media scrutiny, but the nature of the media scrutiny deters many good people from seeking office. The only people society is willing to elect to govern it and who will stick it out are people who are tough enough to fight and win nasty confrontational campaigns and not be disheartened by general public contempt.

I don't know what the answer to the conundrum is. Can you be thick-skinned enough to go into and rise up in politics and at the same time be properly in touch with the people you serve?

Politicians are rewarded well financially, but not as well as the top people in those other professions mentioned, and the financial reward is counteracted by the anti-reward of the media and public's general lack of appreciation/interest/recognition of any good work that they do and massive interest/generalisation in any perceived failings. If it was such a cushy life, all those millions who criticise would be lining up to give it a go themselves.

_I_ have a cushy life. I work in government but I don't have to face the media or public, or fight party politics. My job is rewarding. The job of the politicians I try to help do their job when in office does not look cushy or rewarding at all to me. I would never swap places with them for their higher salaries. But without them, we wouldn't be in a democracy.

Seriously, why would a good person who wants to serve in government put themselves through the political mangle for a few years in office in which they have to spend half their time fighting each other when they could be a civil servant instead, and have a full career doing the job that matters to them? What reward does society offer them? It's frankly beyond me.

Martin

[Deleted]

There are some MP's though that are just taking the biscuit. Nicholas Winterton is one who refuses to travel by train in anything other than first class and he even went on record to say that he is in a different kind of social class as the general public. In other words he has had a rich upbringing and he thinks that the poorer people in this country are nothing short of scum.

To be fair though the media has an annoying habit of publishing any old rubbish just to sell its papers. My father has always said that the only thing in a newspaper that you can believe is the date! My family reads the Daily Mirror but that is no better than the other downmarket tabloid rags at the moment. They are loyal Labour supporters and they will happily contradict themselves just to show their devotion to Brown and co. The Sun is just as bad. They recently switched their alignment from Labour to the Conservatives on the sole basis that they have had enough of Labour's policies. They have totally forgotten about the Conservatives exploits in the past of closing down the pits and dumping massive taxes on people. The only tabloids that you are on safe ground with are the Daily Star and the Daily Sport. The Star doesn't give a damn who wins the election and the the Sport is all in favour of a porn star becoming the next Prime Minister!

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I find the BBC usually (though of course not always) reports the facts accurately, but its decisions about what merits the headlines and broadcast time are often questionable. Like the newspapers, outside the political sphere it gives people a distorted picture of how much suffering is going on in different parts of the world, and what risks people should and shouldn't be worried about for their family. Meanwhile in politics it gives anyone who doesn't tune into BBC Parliament the impression that all that happens in Parliament is that the Parties yell at each other across the House of Commons floor, because the only Parliamentary business they normally show on the news is Prime Ministers' questions - though to be fair that is what a lot of people want to see, and how politicians behave when they think voters are watching. But much more important and interesting in my opinion are all the Parliamentary activities that don't make it onto the news, but which you can view on BBC Parliament or the Internet ( www.parliament.uk/ ) - all the cross-party select committees looking at specialist subjects, calling civil servants to account, etc. The MPs and Lords actually speak intelligently in those debates and meetings, and get stuff done.

And you should see the light bedtime reading officials give them to take home and make decisions on every night! It can be quite sadistic sometimes.

Martin

[Philip Ayres]

I refer Mr Bug & others to the famous Yes Minister quote on the subject of Newspapers:

The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country
The Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country
The Times is read by people who actually do run the country
the Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country
the Financial Times is read by people who own the country
The Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country
The Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is
Sun readers don’t care who runs the country, as long as she’s got big tits

[Deleted]

I remember watching that episode with that quote in. The amazing thing about it is that its largely true!

The Daily Mirror actually used to be a good read many years ago but it went downhill since Piers Morgan quit as editor and decided to become a TV star. These days its largely page for page celebrity and reality TV news. Yesterday's paper dedicated two whole pages to the news that the Bill TV show was being axed!

[Philip Ayres]

That's most of the problem with papers and the news industry these days - mistaking entertainment and "celebrities" as news.

[Deleted]

The Daily Mirror has once again tripped over itself. When Tony Blair originally left no.10 and handed the keys to Gordon Brown the Mirror cheered. They were glad to see the back of him after he had caused the outbreak of the Iraq war and had accused him of having 'blood on his hands'. Now that Brown has brought the ex PM back into Downing Street in the run up to the election the Mirror is saying that it was an excellent move by Brown to bring back one of Labour's greatest leaders! A similar thing happened many years ago when the Queen Mother died. Up until her death the paper was slagging off the royal family as being useless hangers on in this country but when the QM died they held several days of mourning, dedicated entire editions to her life and saluted her as one of the greatest people in this country.

About a week ago the Mirror also played a prank on a Tory MP. While the Tory MP in question (I can't remember his name) was going out for a morning jog one Mirror reporter dressed up as Corporal Jones from Dad's Army and hounded the MP for what seemed like hours by continually shoving a large 'don't panic' button in his face. The paper may have found this funny but I doubt they would have found it funny if somebody had done the same thing to them.