Hero
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Post by Hero on Jun 22, 2009 7:11:04 GMT
I watched this on a quiet Fathers Day afternoon at the Showcase Cine-de-lux in Cabot Circus.
A mixture of good and bad thoughts.
In short I enjoyed this film more as a spectacle rather than a story.
Skids and Mudflap. Really liked those two. Not sure what happened to them and Wheelie at the end. I did not think I was going to like this comic releif duo, but they actually grew on me.
Surely Sam would have broken a leg or two jumping from the 2nd floor of his house?
Good to see Simmons return in a better role.
Prime and Bumblebee kicking ass. More Bot interaction was good.
Not enough Sideswipe, Arcee, Ratchet and Jolt. And, where was Springer? I thought Springer was in the film. I am guessing he was possibly the helicopter that lowered the lifeless Prime down to the ground. I like how the film implies that there are Transformers worldwide in hiding, which then opens up more possibilities for the future.
One thing that made me cringe was the comedy portrayal of Judy Witwicky taking drugs and making a show of herself on the campus. I did'nt think there was any need of it. I hope Bay took into account that a lot of kids would be watching this film. I did'nt think the gay dogs thing was needed either, not because they were gay though. Those scenes just spoke to me saying that the Witwicky household pet is a misbehaved dog that needs neutering to calm him down (like a lot of dog owners do with thier male dogs). Wheelie too for that matter.
I am left feeling like I need to see this again to try and spot things I missed before (i.e Frenzy's head becoming a phone?, the repaint invasion etc). It's almost like Where's Wally.
Not sure about The Fallen as the main villain. Personally, I felt that Megatron was hugely undermined, but still had some very strong moments.
Wheelie was brilliant! Fantastic, helpful and sometimes horny underdog character that only seeked attention and approval of others.
Jetfire won me over too. I hope he returns in the third film somehow.
Can't think of anymore to say right now.
===KEN
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Post by grahamthomson on Jun 22, 2009 7:34:23 GMT
Saw it at the IMAX on Saturday... I think I need to see again on a smaller screen. Some parts I just didn't know where to look! The picture stretches vertically for the IMAX-only bits (Forest Fight and Devastator in action) and the detail is breathtaking. Sound design, too, was awesome.
I don't know if I can form a proper opinion of it since I just resigned myself (and my brain) to it all and let it punch me in the face for two-and-a-half hours. I think the first film "taught" me how to watch/appreciate a Michael Bay Transformers film.
I think I enjoyed it. It was certainly a lot of fun.
Yeah, I'll just say I thought it was a lot of fun and leave it at that.
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chrisl
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Post by chrisl on Jun 22, 2009 15:05:26 GMT
Watched it on the IMAX in Manchester on Saturday and I don't know what hurt most - Michael Bay raping the interest I have left in Transformers or the IMAX raping my credit card.
The next film in the line may consist of:
a) Harold & Kumar go to Cybertron.
b) 1001 explosions
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Post by Bogatan on Jun 22, 2009 16:52:29 GMT
a) would be great as long as SPH was in as himself again.
Andy
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 22, 2009 16:57:43 GMT
I agree with Blueshift - 3 stars out of 5, given what the film sets out to be. One of those two lost stars is for misplaced attempts at humour, the other mainly for things that could have been better in the plotting. I don't penalise it at all for failing to be things that it never set out or claimed to be (such as thoughtful, intellectually stimulating, profound, original...).
I think I only imagined seeing Bonecrusher and Brawl/Devastator in the final battle.
The fight in the forest mid-way between Prime and Megatron/Starscream/Grindor was excellent.
Why doesn't anyone know the name of Ravage's two-dimensional pal? He was superb.
Martin
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Stomski
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Post by Stomski on Jun 22, 2009 17:15:08 GMT
i.e Frenzy's head becoming a phone? Just to clarify, this was a reference to the first film. I don't like the way Bay's Transformers can seemingly do totally impossible transformations. There are just too many parts moving and repositioning.
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Hero
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Post by Hero on Jun 22, 2009 17:33:11 GMT
Ta for clearing that up. I thought I missed something.
===KEN
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2009 18:44:32 GMT
I watched TF2 on the Friday night and to be honest it felt like i had been punched in the head for two and half hours (not a bad thing), there was so much going on. There were a lot of laughs in the cinema and i think Devastator needs to wear a tight pair of pants. This film was defiantly about more, more and more.
I'm not going to be too critical of the film, yes there were a few issues, but i don't think everybody could have been satisfied (may be in the third film, poss different director or scriptwriter, who knows).
What i really liked - OP looked amazing, especially kicking arse and BB and the fluidity of the movement on the bots, especially ravage.
In conclusion i liked the film would need to see it again to take it all in, bit disappointed that a few new characters were just washed over in their introductionand had bit parts (sideswipe). Full on in your face action, just have to switch off and enjoy it.
Has anyone seen both IMAX and normal versions and noticed the extra footage?
Psi1
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Post by grahamthomson on Jun 22, 2009 20:20:19 GMT
I think I only imagined seeing Bonecrusher and Brawl/Devastator in the final battle. Why doesn't anyone know the name of Ravage's two-dimensional pal? He was superb. Martin I am sure I saw "Bonecrusher" in vehicle mode in the final battle! Ravage's 2-D pal could have been Buzzsaw?
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jun 22, 2009 22:20:17 GMT
I'm a bit too tired but I may not get chance to post for a while so...
Now expectations were low but I was still surprised by how bored I was during the film.
BANG lookwhatwecantransform BANG Megan'sarse BANG newcharacters BANG crapromanticsubplot BANG ooapretender BANG nowwithnewirritatingcharacters BANG OKadecentfight BANG surprisinglydullbackstory BANG newTransformers, BANG whoarethesebots? BANG ohlookthey'vemadethecombiningofdevastatorseemboring BANG iactuallyhavenoideawhosurvivedthat
More coherent thoughts...maybe tomorrow but probably next week.
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Post by grahamthomson on Jun 23, 2009 7:25:09 GMT
I imagine that's how the original script treatment read after being annotated by Mike Bay.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 23, 2009 7:31:20 GMT
Buzzsaw! Yeah! He did saw his way into the Allspark case, didn't he?
I do hope that's what his name turns out to be. He might be the first TF to get a better deal out of the live-action series than he got from the Marvel comics and Sunbow cartoon.
Martin
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Jun 23, 2009 11:43:21 GMT
Watched it yesterday at the London i-max - the picture was so good and huge you could see the hairs on Meg Fox's face!
TF is meant to be fun and this film was fun. Some of the central themes tend to lead to it all becoming a bit too dark, but TF2 managed to break up the increasing darkness, and it made me laugh more than many so-called comedies. Okay, so it was coarse, but the humour is pretty much the type of thing I'd laugh at in the pub, or on these message boards. Wheelie leg humping was a bit much, though! That said, I thought Wheelie was fun (him and the kitchenbots were very Gremlins 2 The New Batch), and he, along with Jetfire were also more fun and interesting than their previous incarnations.
I thought Welker as Soundwave was brilliant (also really liked Soundwave's alt mode). Was it my imagination, or did I see Welker in the credits for Wheelie too? And Weaving did a better job as Megs, and Starscream was much improved.
The one thing I think that really doesn't work as well as it might (I thought this after the first film too) is that the bot forms (interesting and alien though they are) are too complicated for clear fight scenes. The one fight scene that really worked was Prime in the trees (did it remind anybody else of Boromir at the end of Fellowship?), which worked, I think, because Prime has a (relatively) simple alt mode, it was actually a fairly open setting, and the scene was largely shot from distance which allowed it to breathe.
There was loads in the film for fans (IMO, obviously), loads for the average cinema goer, and it avoided the misplaced pretensions of the Terminator 4. No work of art, but 2 and half hours of entertainment (it was maybe thirty minutes too long), definitely.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Jun 23, 2009 19:02:01 GMT
Hm. Well. That was disappointing.
Not as good as the first film, which wasn't exactly the greatest piece of cinema itself. That said, I preferred the first film after repeat viewing, once I knew what to expect, so perhaps it's too early to judge.
I thought it was a mistake to use The Fallen. Whilst I didn't have a problem with the character itself, in effect Bay and co. were creating an entirely new mythology for this film. The first film established a mythology, so why complicate matters? Moreover, Megatron was effectively made no more than a lackey, which is detrimental to the character and perhaps confusing to the casual viewer. (You really need to read Defiance to properly understand the relationship, which casual viewers won't have.)
As a rule, I like character-driven pieces, so the general lack of character development here was a big let down. Most of the established characters received less screen time than in the first film, whilst the new characters didn't have enough screen time to establish themselves. There were exceptions, of course, in Jetfire, Wheelie and the twins, whilst the little screen time that Soundwave had somehow did seem just enough to establish the character (even if he did, distractingly, sound like Dr Claw - and, no, I didn't know Frank Welker was the voice until the credits). Many of the characters were not even properly introduced; I'm pretty sure that Soundwave's name wasn't used, Ravage's certainly wasn't, nor the several little Decepticon drone-like characters. I don't think Skids was referred to by name, but if some people had trouble understanding Jazz, I had more trouble understanding the twins in places (and I understood Jazz). I was left wondering who the blue Autobot was until Ratchet referred to him by name, Jolt, at Jetfire's death. To go back to my earlier point, if there had been a more straightforward, Fallen-less, Autobot versus Decepticons plot, it would have been possible to have more character development, or at the very least, give proper introductions to the new characters. (Notwithstanding that character development is perhaps not all that likely in a Bay film, though Orci and Kurtzman did a better job of characters in Star Trek.) Looking back on the film now, was there perhaps too much of Sam at the expense of the Transformers?
As for the humour, whilst in the first film it was often puerile, it was still funny; here it was not only puerile, but often seemed to be trying too hard to be funny. Case in point, the treatment of Judy - generally, that is, not just the drugs sequence. Also, the "comedy relief" twins, I simply found annoying - and I like Ewoks! (Also on the subject of annoying characters, oh, look, "Doctor" has a German mad scientist voice, how original. It would have been a better character without the stereotype.)
I don't want to seem all negative. There were things I liked: Jetfire, Ravage and his marbles, the forest battle, John Turturro's improved performance, Nickelback popping up in the soundtrack, Megatron having more of a character (even if diminished by his relationship with The Fallen), the seemingly-Beast-Machines-Thrust-inspired robot modes of Arcee and friends, getting to see the Smithsonian campus that I decided to pass up when I went to Washington, the nod to Dispensor, the tantalising promise of there being many more Transformers out there.
To pick up on a few things that other people have mentioned. Oh, Alice was a Pretender. How dull of me not to realise this. I was thinking she was simply a Decepticon that had a human disguise. Duh! Perhaps I didn't make the connection because I was hung up on her seeming like a cheap Terminator wannabe. Bonecrusher and Brawl definitely were in the battle, though on the basis of "Grindor" in the forest, no doubt Hasbro would have you believe they are someone else. Come on Hasbro, stop trying to hawk "new characters" by way of repaints - it's pretty obvious that the film-makers intended them as the same characters revived. Yes, the forest battle did remind me of The Lord of the Rings. I'd forgotten that till you mentioned it.
I've probably forgotten some stuff, I'll mention it if anything comes to mind.
One final thought. Did anyone else think, as Sam and Optimus lay dead together and the Primes spoke to Sam, that they might be about to meld together, in the style of Marvel's Optimus and Hi-Q? That would have been an interesting direction for a more intellectually-inclined director to take.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Jun 23, 2009 19:08:35 GMT
Now that it's safe for me to wander the Spoiler Space, I see that "Doctor" is actually named Scalpel. See, another character not properly introduced.
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Post by Mark_Stevenson on Jun 23, 2009 19:35:33 GMT
If anyone bothers to go see it again, keep an eye out for the non-too-subtle 'subliminal' stab at Barack Obama when the Fallen makes his broadcast to the world. It appears Mr. Bay is, unsurprisingly, another bitter loser Republican.
Mx
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Post by grahamthomson on Jun 23, 2009 19:49:43 GMT
Nah, it's just the done thing to poke fun at whoever's President of the United States of America. Still, extra points for squeezing in a Swine Flu gag.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Jun 23, 2009 19:55:06 GMT
You mean the line about him going to a bunker somewhere in the middle of the country? I took that as read, a fairly understandable response to the threat. (Heck, have you seen Independence Day?) But, yes, I can see how it could be an attack on Mr Prez. Hmm. A love of military hardware and expensive fast cars? Perhaps My Bay is right wing.
I was more intrigued by the line about swine flu (at Simmons' shop). Considering how recently the illness struck, I guess that line must have been added during postproduction. Unless I misheard it and it was actually "swine fever".
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Jun 23, 2009 21:00:57 GMT
To be fair to Bay, the portrayal of the not-named, but clearly George Bush, president in the first film was hardly kind. The world's going to shit and he's sitting on his bed, in his socks, and worrying about 'ding dongs'.
Oh, and on the pretender, I really liked how her shell shattered. Although I didn't get how she reformed it.
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Cullen
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Post by Cullen on Jun 24, 2009 7:37:26 GMT
Haven't read anyone else's comment yet, but I thought it was utterly, utterly shit. One of the worst films I've ever seen. I was sorely tempted to walk out at about 5 different points (mainly whenever those monkey twins were on screen). Really wish I had.
EDIT: just to add one positive comment after reading everyone else's: I liked Ravage and his marbles. And that was pretty much it.
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 24, 2009 7:39:26 GMT
I feel your pain. Have to be honest, if I wasn't in company I would have walked out too. Such a shit movie!
-Ralph
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Post by grahamthomson on Jun 24, 2009 7:45:05 GMT
Ha! HA! That's £10 and nearly three hours of your life you'll never get back!
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Cullen
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Post by Cullen on Jun 24, 2009 8:03:05 GMT
Wrong its £30 and three hours I'm never getting back as I 'treated' the 3 people who came with me! I probably could have saved my time, my wallet, friendships and my marriage some lasting harm if I'd just given them all a backhanded slap to the face.
Company was the only thing that kept me in my seat in the end and I found out afterwards that everyone else would have happily left but they stayed because I'd paid and I was the Transformers fan and was probably enjoying it.
Grrr I'm angry on the internet this morning.
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Cullen
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Post by Cullen on Jun 24, 2009 8:14:07 GMT
I bet the Decepticons wished they had high-level human technology like 'bombs', so they could have seen off all the Autobots and troops at the pyramid battle as quickly as the American military saw them off.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Jun 24, 2009 8:57:51 GMT
Bit risky going to watch something like this with non-geek people. I always end up feeling responsible for their enjoyment, which kind of ruins my enjoyment, which is why I was quite happy to go to this on my own.
John, do you think maybe you were expecting too much? I rewatched the first film the night before to make sure I knew what was coming, and so things like the army's success weren't really a surprise as in the first film they killed deceps 'cause their weapons had the frightening property of...heat! And TF don't like things that are hot, or even a few degrees below zero (despite living on a apparently virtually atmosphereless planet).
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Cullen
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Post by Cullen on Jun 24, 2009 9:55:10 GMT
I think I'd set my expectations at the right level. I too rewatched the first film the night before going (and saw the last 30 minutes again just before going to the cinema as one of my friends was just watching it for the first time when we went to pick him up). The first film has a lot of flaws, but the plot is coherant for the most part and the actions scenes were well-judged. Overall it suspended my disbelief for the course of the film. ROFD smashed that suspension about every 30 seconds with some new ridiculous scene. I didn't believe any of it for a moment. I was expecting enjoyable tosh like I'd had in the first film and like I'd seen in Terminator and Star Trek in previous weeks, but it seemed they managed to make giant robots beating the shit out of each other boring, which is probably the most galling part.
As for the level of technology between humans and Transformers, I thought it was just about right in the first film. The Decepticons were pretty hard to kill, taking a lot of shots from the sabre rounds to finally bring them down. They were pretty much invunerable to everything else. In ROFD, it just smacked of the standard sci-fi sequel bullshit, were the nigh-unstopable killing machine of the first film, is turned into canon fodder in the sequel.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Jun 24, 2009 10:18:49 GMT
Fair enough.
Actually, in terms of the humans beating the 'cons there could have been an excuse, but for some reason the writers denied it to themselves when Prime (rather sensibly) denied the US access to 'bot technology.
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Post by grahamthomson on Jun 24, 2009 10:20:43 GMT
Maybe the desert heat and the sand in their servos contributed to the Decepticons' downfall?
Either that or the "I KNOW! WHAT ABOUT THAT TOP SECRET RAIL GUN NO ONE BUT ME KNOWS ABOUT THAT'S ON BOARD THAT SHIP THAT JUST HAPPENS TO BE WITHIN RANGE AND ALREADY POINTING AT THE TOP OF THE PYRAMIDS" superweapons were being deployed.
Poor Devastator. I appreciate how expensive he must have been to animate, but it's a shame he was taken out so quickly. He was the only Decepticon with balls, after all.
Still, at least they didn't show a hologram of a bigger Decepticon to get him to retreat.
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Post by grahamthomson on Jun 24, 2009 10:22:42 GMT
Fair enough. Actually, in terms of the humans beating the 'cons there could have been an excuse, but for some reason the writers denied it to themselves when Prime (rather sensibly) denied the US access to 'bot technology. I was actually interested in that sub-plot! I'm glad I'm booked in to see it again, there was just too much for me to take in the first time. Thinking on it, I had the same feeling after seeing the first film for the first time.
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Cullen
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Post by Cullen on Jun 24, 2009 11:22:03 GMT
If the Americans had just used that rail gun on the pyramid the whole battle would have been moot. But apparently it only had one shot. Also all archaeologists need to be fired
Just reread Martin's mock newspaper article from the AA2008 magazine about the battle in Mission City, which is even more poingant after the new film. There's no way they could have covered up the Transformers as they implied in ROFD, absolutely no way.
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