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Post by grahamthomson on Dec 15, 2009 10:30:02 GMT
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Dec 15, 2009 10:46:23 GMT
IDW do keep bringing up the "those North American direct market sales by Diamond aren't the full story" - they're not, but they're going to be a significant chuck of sales and they show sales are down. I would not expect that to be different to foreign sales.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 10:56:37 GMT
Scmidt continues to contradict himself once again. He has again used the phrase that he has been 'honest' which he clearly hasn't when addressing the reaction to Continuum. He also says that he listens to the fans when he clearly doesn't do that either as he is largely disregarding every negative comment aimed at his comics (he even admits that early in the interview).
He also keeps mentioning the 'hard-core fan' and says that its them that are the only ones who are complaining. I'm not a hard-core fan but I can't see anything good about stuff like Continuum. He says he'd be foolish to ignore the hard-core fan base because they make up 10 - 20% of the sales and then says that he isn't taking the word of the hard-core fans as the word of God and that he listens to the lesser fans. Make up your mind what side you want to stand on!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 15, 2009 11:47:21 GMT
If we just take 'hardcore' to mean anyone who has read the vast majority of IDW Transformers, then yeah hardcore fans are going to be angry because they are more aware of how things don't gel with what went before.
If fans are getting angry at Schmidt personally, that won't be the main reason though. It's for things like his Bullschmidt excuses he came out with for Contiuum.
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 15, 2009 13:27:48 GMT
So what are the average sales figures for Transformers comics over the last year?
Andy
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 13:30:57 GMT
They're probably not as sparkling as what Schmidt claims they are.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 13:52:34 GMT
Yes that is interesting. It sounds like fan criticism is getting to Andy more than he is willing to admit, but he should keep his frustrations in check and let the comics do the talking. Personally I am thoroughly enjoying the TF Ongoing, and I think it'll be a great success. Just my opinion of course, but it has an engaging story and is well written and paced and has avoided the much-criticised failings of AHM.
Continuum was a mistake. I was enjoying reading that until the sloppy error with Verity Carlo's name (something that should be easy to check) and then the Machination glaring omission, which spoiled the book. Add to that the absence of Don's G1 sketches which were slated to appear in the book. I just assumed AS had got confused between Skywatch and the Machination, but now he says it was a deliberate attempt to simplify the story for newcomers. I think this was a mistake and has alienated long term readers, people like you and I.
But I've enjoyed the first two TF ongoing books and I'm encouraged by what's coming up (BB and Wreckers, SL Prowl etc) so as long as the ongoing continues to entertain I can forgive and forget continuum.
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Dec 15, 2009 13:56:00 GMT
Transformers #1 sold 15,000 in the North American direct market, IIRC.
The "casual fans" thing gets annoying, that seems to be excuse for every continuity problem. And half with no reason! Like, ore-13 is being ignored in AHM and now in The Transformers to help "casual fans" - casual fans of Transformers will be put off by "there is stuff on Earth and Megatron wants it"?
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Post by Benn on Dec 15, 2009 14:13:39 GMT
He wants to listen to everyone, and ends up pleasing no-one.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 15:52:24 GMT
The thing that started this off was the Continuum issue. As we all know he made a series of errors in it but instead of admitting that he made these mistakes he continually made excuses by saying they were intentional. If they were intentional he would have announced these 'changes' before the release of the comic instead of waiting for all of the angry fan criticism on the net to emerge before announcing it. Any editor who changes stories intentionally would have done that which makes his excuses stand out as nothing more than rubbish.
He then keeps on sticking to his excuses and complains that people aren't treating him right. Worse still there is not a single interview or blog he has written on the net that I have read that doesn't contradict itself. There have so far been about two interviews and now a blog that have surfaced after the Continuum debate and each one has said one thing and then contradicted itself before the end of the blog/interview. And he wonders why the fans don't have a good word to say about him?
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 15, 2009 15:56:41 GMT
I guess we could argue all day what would define a "hard core" fan, But Andy is saying 10-20% of the readership is made up of that group.
Does anyone else think that 1500-3000 readers who are hardcore fans seems worringly low? The transformers Collectors club has more members than that registered over the last 5 years and thats seen as a minority group. Heck 1500 people per year lay out $500+ for Botcon, with another 2000+ attending during hte weekend. 300+ go to AA, more to the Canadian con and theres the european one too.
TFW has 40,000+ registered users and nearly a 1000 were online when I just checked. And thats just one of the big sites.
I know not everyone of those will still be a fan and of those who are not all will buy the comic, but really if IDW arent trying to grab so readily available an audience and keep happy the ones already buying their product then I just don't get it.
Andy
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Post by blueshift on Dec 15, 2009 16:10:13 GMT
Comics as a whole are dying, with scarily low numbers even for the really popular ones!
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Dec 15, 2009 17:15:46 GMT
I guess we could argue all day what would define a "hard core" fan Well, if you dress up as a character at conventions, you probably are. Comics as a whole are dying Eh, people have been claiming that since before I started reading comics. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 18:17:36 GMT
Does anyone else think that 1500-3000 readers who are hardcore fans seems worringly low? The transformers Collectors club has more members than that registered over the last 5 years and thats seen as a minority group. Heck 1500 people per year lay out $500+ for Botcon, with another 2000+ attending during hte weekend. 300+ go to AA, more to the Canadian con and theres the european one too. TFW has 40,000+ registered users and nearly a 1000 were online when I just checked. And thats just one of the big sites. Andy Either Schmidt hasn't been doing his sums properly and those figures are all wrong (which wouldn't surprise me) or that is the correct figure for IDW's hardcore fans (in which case they have a problem) but he thinks that is normal (which wouldn't surprise me either). |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 15, 2009 18:58:08 GMT
The bottom line is that if you* wish to show your opinion on a comic (or whatever) then vote with your wallet. If you don't like it and moan online but still buy it anyway the creators are entitled to ignore you. If you really hate it, don't buy it. That's the most direct and important way to show your opinion.
And if you like it, buy it to show your support so they make more.
The end.
-Ralph
*ie the average consumer
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Post by grahamthomson on Dec 15, 2009 21:45:34 GMT
Ralph, that would be far too sensible!
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Post by dinogrrl on Dec 21, 2009 4:47:34 GMT
Hmm, yes I am rather tired of the constant dismissal of Diamond sales figures. Most of IDW's sales would be in North America, as that is their primary market aim, as well as where the company is located. Their individual comics are marketed only to comic book stores - not through casual book chains or grocers or newsagents. It is entirely direct market over here. The only time their material leaves direct market is when it's in trade format, and then bookstores would make up a portion of those sales. But on the individual issue front, direct market sales are IT, so Diamond's numbers are likely closer to the final actual US sales (which include re-orders) than they'd probably like to admit.
They'd also be the majority of sales worldwide. I know there's a fair whack of non-US based fans out there, but I can't believe that they'd sell more of their TF material outside the States than in it. And regardless of what those international numbers are, they'd still follow the North American Diamond sales numbers trends.
If they want people to shut up about it, then they need to put out actual sales numbers themselves. Of course, they won't because I'd bet overall it wouldn't show any difference trendwise from the Diamond ones and they'd only help to hand critics further amunition.
15,000 on TF #1 eh? Then they did the first print run conservative on purpose, such that it sold out. Wonder what the second run numbers were? I'm not sure if Diamond will see those numbers, as it was done between Previews issues and so wouldn't have seen formal re-solicit. Probably still under 20,000 total though. A bit more than AHM #1, but not by a whole lot.
If they're under 20,000 on issue one, it's only downhill from here on out, although I would guess that they're hoping it will settle out at the 11-12,000 level that AHM did, which I assume is profitable enough for them to run it.
The comics market has shrunk radically over the last five years though. No-one pulls the run numbers they did, and given what will be the continual rise of electronic versions of print material in general, they aren't going to climb back up either. Look for the game to change further in the next few years when color screen e-book readers start popping up.
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Dec 21, 2009 10:07:03 GMT
I dunno if the comic market as a whole has shrunk. It just seems to be Transformers as a comic franchise that's gone massively downhill. Some of that's natural attrition - it sold gangbusters from Dreamwave because it'd just come back and there was a nostalgia itch not being scratched - and some of that is because of Dreamwave's collapse.
Some of the rest has to be IDW though. The ongoing-of-minis, the Spotlights that are important but aren't marked, the lack of numbering... that seems to have done some damage. After all, how's a casual fan meant to follow the plot of the -ations if he doesn't know to buy the Spotlights too?
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Dec 21, 2009 15:00:02 GMT
Comics sales have gone down a lot. The standard used to be 000,000 [0 being a number 1 to 9] while now the top titles only get 00,000 print runs. But you hear that comic book [films / games] are the biggest money makers ever [since 2000 with X-men anyway - which was a film that never had a game released with it].
But the prices are 5 times what the price of the comics where back when we had the 6 figure print runs & the comic writer/artist get paid more too.
But also IDW had to follow on from where DW had left the Transformers comic market - with only 2 titles that people looked forward [WW3, Energon]to & the other 2 being below standard [G1 story, TF/Gijoe2]. So that's why we just had mini's to test the market.
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