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Post by Fortmax2020 on Apr 26, 2010 10:32:30 GMT
NEEEEEEEVER!!
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Post by Jaymz on Apr 26, 2010 13:18:54 GMT
Got the delivery update e-mail from Diamond. It's due to all UK shops this Thursday! Yay!
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Apr 26, 2010 13:26:02 GMT
Splendid!
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 26, 2010 18:11:23 GMT
And to me from the sorting office a week after.
*weeps*
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Apr 29, 2010 22:19:30 GMT
Picked this up today and pleased to say I spent a good hour with it reading it slowly picking up on the wealth of detail and thought in it.
Another well paced and exciting issue. Marvel UK fans will get a lot out of the flashback scenes and Springer and Impactor's relationship is thrashed out a bit more.
Great action from Kup, Guzzle and Snare... and Grimlock is on the loose elsewhere in the galaxy again. Loving how this story remembers and nods the head to previous events in a way that the ongoing simply cannot do because of the wonky set up it has given itself.
James and Nick through us an original curve with what Aquitas is although Fort Max's body seems to have vanished into thin air.
Can't wait to find out what Ironfist now knows!
And even without their appearance in the flashback scene Andy's and my theory about Top Spin and Twin Twist is well and truly sunk.
Great set up for the 'final' (?) battle with Overlord as well but still plenty of other cards to play too...
And how appropriate that it all boils down to a vote around the UK election time? Deliberate at all..?
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Rich
Protoform
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Post by Rich on Apr 29, 2010 22:20:36 GMT
Got a copy of this today (I'll not comment on it here), but it was the only copy on the shelf in my local shop (they've sold out all previous issues of Wreckers - I don't think they order very many).
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Post by Bogatan on Apr 29, 2010 22:28:37 GMT
Was your theory Twin Twist and Top Spin = Rack'n'Ruin? Twas mine, glad I was wrong and I hope to see R'n'R in something non flash backy one day After loitering in town for the best part of two hours waiting for the comic shop to open I wa glad to find 2 of Nicks cover on the shelf. Looks like being an entertaining final issue. Andy
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Apr 29, 2010 22:43:35 GMT
It was indeed. Picked up Nick's cover as well, last one in my local. Plenty of the others.
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Post by dinogrrl on Apr 30, 2010 3:30:18 GMT
For the first time, I have a mixed reaction to this one. And because I'm lazy, I'm bodging this post together from my AllSpark one. First, the good stuff: Twin Twist. Poor, poor Twin Twist. *sob* By the way, the art layout for revealing what happened to him was BRILLIANT. At first his head is all in shadows and I'm like "WHERE IS HIS HEAD?!?". Then post argument you show it and I'm like 'Oh, there it is AAAAAARRGH!' Well done.
The argument between Impactor and Springer, the obviously whitewashed story about Pova that Ironfist tells Verity, Verity in general, Pyro being all WTFBBQHELLNO about sacrificing himself, poor little Ironfist sadly resigning himself to it and Impactor's hilariously abrupt offing of Snare.
Squadron X lineup. I about laughed my ass off. Excellent.
Perceptor is now very much like his Marvel US comic edition - a cold calculating asshole that no-one likes.
Prowl! I do love to see me some Rocherts Prowl again.
Kup just cold rippin' peoples' heads off. AND NO GRIMLOCK *dun dun dun*! And now, my issue with this issue: I do have a sticking point with Aequitas. That it's a computer, I wasn't surprised at. I'd always assumed it was a thing rather than a person. My problem is with both the suicide lockout requiring a spark donation and also the value of the data within Aequitas. First the spark donation thing - I understand it would work as the ultimate lockout procedure but the discussion around it does come across as too brief and awkward in the comic. James addresses this in part in a comment he left at the AllSpark:
"The discussion around the spark donation process was originally significantly longer - for Nick and I, it was the centrepiece of the issue - but some of it had to be sacrificed for reasons of space. The same can be said for dialogue fleshing out, conceptually-speaking, the purpose of Aequitas. On that front, I would like to clarify - and this isn't in response to anything you've said, Dinogrrl, but comments I've read elsewhere - that Aequitas doesn't detect or measure or quantify guilt; it determines it, by purely mathematical means, and in the process it does away, rightly or wrongly, with the need (so one argument would go) for subjective qualities such as discretion and, despite Perceptor's description of the supercomputer, judgement. That's our 'Hard SF' concept for the series.
The idea stems from research (in Australia, I think) into justice computers (my phrase) that can apply something approaching discretion as they work their way down various 'decision-trees'. There was talk of the software, should it ever be perfected, being applied to the criminal justice system. The Aequitas concept takes this to an extreme."
The concept of Aequitas is quite ace and I'm glad James posted these details about it. I can see how such a thing would be used by mechanical beings like Transformers as a form of justice machine and why it would be in G-9. I dig that there would likely be a lot of sensitive data in it, but is it really worth dying for? What significance does this data have in the new setting of the Ongoing where the war is supposed to be over? What use is it now? I guess I'm not feeling the weight of why it's worth sacrificing lives over this material, and I hope we get to see why it's so important in Issue 5.
My other problem is why, if Perceptor knows the access code to the chamber, knows what Aequitas is and does, knows about its components, and is apparently the only one who knows how to operate it such that he has to recuse himself from donating his spark, would he not have the access codes to boot it up? If the G-9 command had it, wouldn't Prowl, who ranks above them, also have it, and give it to Perceptor?
This seeming oddity makes it feel like a bit of a device with which to kill off a character. Combined with the shortened discussion of spark donation, it just struck me as a bit off. It's the first thing that has caught me off guard with the series, which is why I'm yapping on about it. Other random stuff: Impactor isn't dead yet! But I called the Death by HeadSplodey Chip thing back in Issue 2, so that won't be a surprise in terms of how, just in terms of exactly when. Presumably in the middle of the battle with Overlord. Or hell, maybe Overlord will just cold kill his ass first.
Also, why does Impactor have the harpoon in the flashback sequence?
Where the hell did Fort Max go? Did they decide to ditch his near-dead ass?
So Impactor gets canned for what I assume is the personal slaughter of the captured and disarmed members of Squadron X. So by that scale, what Perceptor is proposing to do by killing who knows how many individuals, both Autobot and Decepticon, by pressing a button should far outstrip that in terms of criminality - no?
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Post by dinogrrl on Apr 30, 2010 3:31:13 GMT
For what it's worth - Issue 3 of LSoTW is available via iTunes now. Apparently.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Apr 30, 2010 12:46:50 GMT
And it would still leave them with the problem of Overlord.
I think all the stuff you perhaps rightly have a bug bear about will be sorted in the last issue. I imagine James and Nick were hoping Ironfist's reaction to what he now knows is enough to convey the importance of what Aquitas' hard drive contains even if we don't have the specifics right now.
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Apr 30, 2010 16:56:42 GMT
BRILLIANCE. The scene with Ironfist and Pyro discussing who should die was great - the lonely, sad, horrible life of Ironfist, his inability to talk, Pyro's mask falling off to reveal a horrible person, the somewhat surprising death of two Name Wreckers... The death of Snare really shocked me though, and also made me sad. And added to that, we've got some massive violence, scenes of utter horror, and that great "shoot through my midsection!" bit. [/quote] And oh lord, I love Squadron X.
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Post by dinogrrl on May 1, 2010 2:30:33 GMT
I guess I also want to say that although I have questions, I don't mean to be dissing the comic. I still love the pants off it, just talking out loud about things that grab my attention.
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Post by charlesrocketboy on May 1, 2010 13:11:30 GMT
Reread all the issues, and a lot of things now stand out or get an extra meaning - like Pyro's obsession with a motto, or Guzzle's "I see him" response to Kup.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2010 19:08:55 GMT
I've got issue 3 but have still yet to read it. I think I'll order issue 4 sometime within the next week and read them both together.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 4, 2010 18:22:18 GMT
Received today, courtesy of Steve Bax. Another enjoyable romp of a read! All very un-Transformery in the ease and frequency with which James and Nick manage to bump off members of a species that I'm accustomed to seeing blown to pieces and put back together again and again so that they're virtually un-killable, but as a sci-fi commando action movie it works just fine. Nice to see the cool, commanding Prowl from AHM back again in the prologue (a good use of two-dimensional screen effect there, Nick), and looking forward to finally finding out (I hope) next issue why Ironfist was inserted by him in the team. Whatever reason Prowl had for sending a top weapons designer on a suicide mission, it was nearly cut short when he volunteered to die only to be saved at the last minute by Topspin. I can't say I like Ironfist or particularly want him to survive, as he's an unrepentent designer of weapons of death, which makes him a nasty piece of work in my book. But if he survives and as a result of his experience gives up his horrible profession(s), then I'll admire him for that. On the other hand, he concludes the issue by voting to kill all the escaped prisoners (who have no choice but to obey Overlord) and thus finish the job begun by his downright evil cerebro-sensitive bullets - so he doesn't appear to have grown in terms of his ethics thus far. The character in the series that I have the most respect for as a person is Snare, who, unlike the death-dealing Wreckers, hasn't put a foot wrong in my estimation. (And never will, now that Impactor has crushed his brain module, when he could have simply removed it for safe-keeping and later rehabilitation in a new body.) My mind boggles at Springer's accusation that whatever Impactor did violated every tenet of the Autobot Code. If the Autobot Code as understood by Springer allows the use of cerebro-sensitive bullets to put down escaped prisoners who have fallen under the influence of a sadistic psycho like Overlord, and allows Perceptor to detonate the deterrence chips in those remaining, then what tenets of the Code could possibly remain for Impactor to violate? I'm assuming he killed Squadron X in cold blood or something, but given their part in the aforementioned activities, I don't think any of the current Wreckers - certainly not their leader and the guy who designed their weapons - have any moral high ground to take. Aequitas piques my curiosity. Not the spark donation business - that just strikes me as a plot device for killing characters in a way other than shooting them in the head (though the voluntary sacrifice business could have had an emotional impact if no-one had died in the series so far, and life been thus portrayed as so cheap). But the guilt-calculating supercomputer is an intriguing concept. I'm interested to find out more about it. Obviously, every Transformer has a computer brain which translates abstract concepts - motivation, accountability, mitigation, and so on - into mathematical algorithms, and makes judgements about guilt. But according to Perceptor, Aequitas, unlike normal TFs, is infallible. I wonder what the basis of that belief is, and why Aequitas needs to be a gazillion times the size of a normal TF brain to make its moral judgements. Why is it referred to as 'it' by a species that tends to consider non-sentient machines as an alien concept? And of course we also want to know who built the darn thing! (What with all the judging business going on and the precedent set by 'Eugenesis', I'm not ruling out the Quintesson theory...) What else...? Pyro's shown his true colours, and blown any respect he might have had from his companions. On the other hand, he votes against Perceptor and Ironfist in the final scene, which makes him better than the other two in my eyes - though his stated reason was to keep Impactor alive, not, as (Marvel's) Optimus Prime and I would have it, because taking Decepticon lives when other options (such as merely theatening to do so) may still exist makes you as bad as them. Heck, ethics aside, detonating the deterrence chips won't stop Overlord or the other Predators - and _will_ kill any surviving Autobot prisoners. Perceptor is in command and doesn't need to go all democratic. Maybe he knew for certain how Ironfist would vote after downloading Aequitas. What with disenfranchising Verity, it's a clear case of a fixed result. Ironfist: "Squadron X was the Wreckers gone wrong. A gang of Decepticon brutalists who left a trail of atrocities in their wake." - Sounds very much like the Wreckers to me! Squadron X - well, I would like to see more stories featuring the Macabre and Fang from 'Target: 2006' and the Earthquake and Tornado from 'The Enemy Within', etc. - but these are not those guys, so here I'd rather have seen James and Nick create new characters of their own for the role (as I would with Impactor, Springer, Kup and everyone else who already had a life in the original comic). On the other hand, "Redan Quadrant" takes the obscure fan references to the level of so-bad-it's-good. Martin PS OK, James, you got me this time. I had to go look up "hagiographic".
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Post by dinogrrl on May 5, 2010 3:20:57 GMT
I think Springer's the type who talks the talk concerning the Autobot Code, but doesn't walk the walk, as implied by Impactor's 'holier than thou' comment in Issue 2. He's probably done or seen his fellow Wreckers do things as bad, not including this mission, but is selectively blind to his own violations. In other words, a hypocrite. And as I noted, if Perceptor presses the button of death, it would or at least should make him a far worse criminal than Impactor.
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Post by grahamthomson on May 5, 2010 8:02:36 GMT
My copy arrived in the post this morning, and I devoured it quickly over breakfast. My head is spinning. Anyway, I figured on browsing the comments on the IDW boards to see others' reactions to the issue. And, lo, before even getting to the bottom of the first page I find an inappropriate comment from the editor of the series. Sigh. forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?t=7747
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Post by Bogatan on May 5, 2010 9:44:45 GMT
I saw that too, he does apologise a few pages later, but really the guy seems like a walking PR disaster, it wasn't too hard to see what he was saying (How great are Nick and James), but somehow a professional writer managed to turn that into an unprovoked attack on the readers basically calling them greedy ungrateful fanboys.
It takes a special kind of genius.
Andy
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Post by grahamthomson on May 5, 2010 9:48:29 GMT
I had to bring myself to reply in that thread.
The whole "I don't know these characters from beforehand, so I won't like the story" attitude irritates me.
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Rich
Protoform
Posts: 824
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Post by Rich on May 5, 2010 18:45:53 GMT
While stronger than many a TF comic, this seemed to me to be much the weakest issue of Wreckers; the deaths and twists just didn't resonate with me, for which I blame the spark donation thing as it took me out of the story as I couldn't work out the sense of it. The fact that the Aequitas reveal had pleased me made this all the more disappointing.
So, what was the Redan Quadrant? I tried to google it, but just ended up getting Martin's review on the IDW board, which was an okay result as the discussion was quite interesting.
Finally, I thought Schmidt had a point for a change - the complaint was made in a pretty crass way.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 5, 2010 18:58:21 GMT
So, what was the Redan Quadrant? Redan Place was the old address of Marvel UK where you wrote into the TF letters page. Martin
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Rich
Protoform
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Post by Rich on May 5, 2010 20:16:27 GMT
Bleedin' heck, that's some obscure mojo. What about Pova, does that mean anything to anybody?
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Post by charlesrocketboy on May 5, 2010 20:18:47 GMT
I think Springer's the type who talks the talk concerning the Autobot Code, but doesn't walk the walk, as implied by Impactor's 'holier than thou' comment in Issue 2. That's the thing though - Impactor's comment implied he used to think Springer was holier than thou, but now believes he really wouldn't do as Impactor would, that he would walk the walk. And that that makes him worse. The whole "I don't know these characters from beforehand, so I won't like the story" attitude irritates me. God forbid NEW characters turn up...
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Post by Kingoji on May 6, 2010 5:29:57 GMT
We finally recieved our copies hereabouts. Once again, it's easily continuing it's status of best tf book in years. There is so much in here to squee at, from the identities of Squad X to the couple of history lessons which also include MUK comic-only characters. The two threads of possible salvation from last issue (Aequitas and the prisoner in the Maximum Security cell) fall flat on their faces. Torture. Death. Ambushed. Outnumbered. OVERLORD. At this stage in the game, I can quite easily see an ending in which no-one makes it out alive. A notion which has been openly stated as a possibility from day one, but also one which nobody really believed could happen.
If there's one good thing about that volcano blowing, it's that the wait for the last issue wont seem anywhere near as long.
Oh, and Skyfall FTW!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 9:15:30 GMT
My copy arrived in the post this morning, and I devoured it quickly over breakfast. My head is spinning. Anyway, I figured on browsing the comments on the IDW boards to see others' reactions to the issue. And, lo, before even getting to the bottom of the first page I find an inappropriate comment from the editor of the series. Sigh. forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?t=7747Which post is that on that thread? I want to read what rubbish he is saying but I can't be bothered to scroll through the endless amount of pages to find it.
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Post by Kingoji on May 6, 2010 11:25:14 GMT
This one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 11:35:14 GMT
I suppose that's the least you can expect from him. And he wonders why the fans are always having a pop at him.
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Post by dinogrrl on May 7, 2010 3:14:31 GMT
Oh Andy, when you will learn? The fan in question was Sprite of all people, who is about the sweetest one there. All she was doing was asking and Andy seems to have taken inordinate offense to a harmless comment. At least he apologised properly later.
Anyway, I'm not worried about the profiles. Sure, it would have been nice if they'd shown up as planned, mainly for Nick and James' sake, but we'll get them and all sorts of other goodies in the trade too.
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Post by Bogatan on May 7, 2010 4:48:45 GMT
What else...? Pyro's shown his true colours, and blown any respect he might have had from his companions. On the other hand, he votes against Perceptor and Ironfist in the final scene, which makes him better than the other two in my eyes - though his stated reason was to keep Impactor alive, not, as (Marvel's) Optimus Prime and I would have it, because taking Decepticon lives when other options (such as merely theatening to do so) may still exist makes you as bad as them. Heck, ethics aside, detonating the deterrence chips won't stop Overlord or the other Predators - and _will_ kill any surviving Autobot prisoners. Martin PS OK, James, you got me this time. I had to go look up "hagiographic". I don't really think the deterrence chips are out of line with how you think Autobots should be. You have to think The Decepticons will have been taking prisoners as often as the Autobots but as soon as they have no use they will be killed. Thats means over the course of millions of years the number of active participants on each side will stay proportionally equal (barring significant victories for one side). But if you take in to account all the decepticons that are captured and kept alive because Autobots don't kill then the Decepticons may very well have a much larger population. If thats the case the one thing the Autobots can never ever allow to happen is for all the Decepticon prisoners to rejoin the decepticon army. The deterrence chips are the final fail safe. I'm not sure it's been stated how they work but I'd imagine they would have a proximity detonation if you get so far from the planet and also that Fort Max would have the ability to trigger them individually, the blow them all approach may either be due to hacking the system, or simply identifying the cons that are about to kill you, selecting them, giving them a warning and then if neccesary blowing them up before that decepticon can shoot you might be difficult. As for Autobot prisoners if they re in that prison, then by Autobot standards they must have done something bad (though from what I remember Grimlock didn't seem to fit that ) Are they brutal? Yes. Can they risk a vast population of decepticons rejoining their army, especially given the current state of the war? No Andy
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