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Post by grahamthomson on May 18, 2010 8:13:23 GMT
... is released tomorrow in some parts of the world, and Thursday in others.
I am on the edge of my seat. To hell with my coccyx!
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Post by grahamthomson on May 18, 2010 10:56:41 GMT
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Post by bertie on May 18, 2010 16:06:16 GMT
I did and it's fucking awesome.
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chrisl
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I still think its the 1990s - when I joined TMUK
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Post by chrisl on May 18, 2010 21:38:51 GMT
preview is amazing!
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Post by grahamthomson on May 19, 2010 11:50:42 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on May 19, 2010 17:21:43 GMT
Avoiding spoilers. I shall be ordering my copies (both covers as usual) tomorrow from the interwebs.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 19, 2010 17:36:40 GMT
Wreckers recruitment propaganda?
Martin
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Post by legios on May 19, 2010 19:24:51 GMT
I'm very much in the business of avoiding spoilers on this as well. So no reviews or previews for me. I figure that I will have to be disappearing from these threads until the latter half of next week when tomorrows comics order shows up and I have a chance to read the issue cold.
Karl
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Post by Bogatan on May 20, 2010 14:39:48 GMT
Wow!
Ok that doesn't really require a spoiler thread, but I'm still processing.
I made the very good decision to take issues 1-4 with me and after picking up issue 5 went and sat on the grass in Queens Garden and read all of them back to back.
I recommend everyone do this. Reading issues 1-4 again before reading 5 that is. Sitting in Queens gardens would just be impractical for most of you.
Andy
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 20, 2010 19:57:49 GMT
Was passing FP Cardiff, and even though I have a copy of issue #5 on order from One Shall Stand, curiosity won out and I bought it off the shelf. Glad I did, because it blew me away. I take back my assessment that LSOTW is basically Starship Troopers (which was a compliment, incidentally). Issues #1-4 read like Starship Troopers to me - a bunch of gung-ho suicide soldiers with no intelligent strategy, motivated by testosterone, killing the designated enemy and being killed in their turn, demonstrating the hypocrisy and stupidity of making waging war your reason for living. That alone was good writing, at least as good as Simon Furman on his good days, and more intelligent than the one other ultra-violent Transformers series that I'm acquainted with (Marvel's Generation 2 run). But issues #1-4 were not as original or engaging for me as the 1984 mini-series and Budiansky's run - and not particularly 'Transformers' in tone, since the robots' human characteristics were so well-written that I felt they might as well have been humans. Couple this with the fact that the events in the story had no bearing on the Marvel saga I grew up with, despite having protagonists superficially looking like Transformers from the original saga, and my reaction has been somewhat lukewarm prior to the final issue. My reaction to issue #5 is not like my reaction to issues #1-4. Just as Part 6 of Eugenesis trumped Parts 1-5 by lifting me out of a story of protracted violence and blowing me away with scientific and historical revelations about the origins and true nature of the Transformers as a race, issue #5 of LSOTW lifts me out of a story of protracted violence and blows me away with revelations and insights of a moral nature. Starship Troopers had one message - humans are ugly in war. LSOTW contains the message that Autobots are ugly in war, but also, in issue #5, that they are capable of choosing not to be ugly in war. Sometimes the presence of a human can help them to choose the right path, and sometimes they can choose the right path in spite of the human. The final issue broke the formula and my expectations in a number of satisfying ways. Page 1 was like page 1 of the final part of Time Wars, but - thank you, guys - you obeyed the original rules of Transformer resilience this time. Of course a Transformer doesn't die when you rip him in half at the waist - I've known that since I was ten. Surprised Overlord wasn't aware of it though.
Impactor survived! Well done, guys. If you had killed him, it would have been just one more death to add to his collection, and reinforce the rule that non-toy characters don't stand a chance.
You didn't manage to kill any of the untouchable characters, but I suspect you would have done if they'd let you. (Or perhaps not?)
Ironfist defeated Overlord by thinking tactically! This breaks the pattern set by nearly all Furman's climactic showdowns, which end with the villain being defeated by supernatural forces (Matrixes, Swarms, time-storms, etc.). It also breaks the pattern set by issues #1-4, in which the Wreckers have shown no sign of actually planning ahead for victory. (No attempt to infiltrate the complex undetected. No attempt to arm themselves in advance with weapons capable of hurting Overlord, despite Kup knowing from previous battles how powerful he is.) Ironfist won by being smart.
Ironfist shines through as a tragic character. I can't say he's an OK guy, because he develops weapons designed not to destroy, but rather to kill. And yet he learns a lot in this issue, and is killed poetically by a weapon he designed. A very well-written and memorable character.
Impactor admitted in issue #5 that he was guilty of his crime, and therefore redeemed himself in my eyes. He at least is victorious in this series, and a better robot at the end than he was at the start. I hope he shares some of his insights with Guzzle, who has a lot of learning still ahead of him.
Verity, while not as well-developed in human terms as some of the robots, justified her presence in the series by her various interventions in this and the second half of the previous issue. Transformers stories need humans in them for the contrast, and while this wasn't the usual sort of contrast, it still enhanced the story.
Prowl and Ultra Magnus's epilogue was superb.
Springer's portrayal, I'm sorry to say, does leave me unsatisfied. His moral high ground with regard to Pova doesn't really seem compatible with what I've seen of the Wreckers' mode of operation - in particular the use of cerebro-sensitive bullets - and their often-stated reputation for operating outside the rules. And his fearlessness in the present doesn't really mesh with his lack of courage when Impactor proposed shooting through his midsection. I don't understand that circuit-dampeners business at all either. He's a Transformer, capable of being taken apart and put back together - surely he can switch off his pain sensors if he wants to - or switch himself off altogether. I'm afraid the Fisitron version of that scene struck me as more credible than the Ironfist version.
But that's my only gripe about the issue. On the basis of issues #1-4 I thought it a shame James and Nick were commissioned to write their Wreckers story set in a re-booted continuity rather than building on the saga we grew up with. After reading issue #5 I think it's a downright tragedy. But if I place them (and Spotlight: Kup and AHM #15) on my bookshelf next to all the Marvel reprint trades and look at them cross-eyed after a few beers, I can just about pretend otherwise. What the hell, after The Legacy of Unicron and Eugenesis, Death's Head ends up in an alternate universe where Transformers have these things called sparks and are easier to kill, and somehow inspires this universe's Impactor to install a harpoon hand like the Impactor in his native universe. That will help me sleep at night, I suppose. So long, IDW, and thanks! I'll be back again for more when these guys get another writing gig. Martin
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Post by Bogatan on May 20, 2010 20:07:24 GMT
Oh yes the Deaths Head reference was pure billiance.
Reading the full set I also picked up on bits I hadn't caught first time. like Fistitron writing 331 wreckers files. Which gave me a good idea that issue 5 would contain his finally entry. Also the ladybird references. How did I miss them?
Andy
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 20, 2010 20:10:58 GMT
I recommend everyone do this. Reading issues 1-4 again before reading 5 that is. Sitting in Queens gardens would just be impractical for most of you. That was the other good thing about Eugenesis - I could read it all straight through on the day it was released. I think LSOTW is also much better read in one go. The month-long gaps didn't help the story at all. It's an action movie, not a slow-burning saga. Martin
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Post by Fortmax2020 on May 20, 2010 23:11:28 GMT
Ralph's mind is going to pop thanks to the cameo of a certain favourite character of his near the end.
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Post by Jaymz on May 20, 2010 23:23:40 GMT
The month-long gaps didn't help the story at all. It's an action movie, not a slow-burning saga. But at the same time, I'd say that the comic succeeded as a periodical in that I wanted to read the next issue when I finished one. Not many comics do that these days and I'm going to miss that feeling. As for issue #5, highly enjoyable. When I find my earlier issues I shall re-read the lot as one story, and do it again when the trade comes out. And in the mean time I'm going to reenact scenes with the toys. If Hasbro can make figures based on Don Figueroa's designs, then they can make an Impactor based on Nick's work.
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Post by Bogatan on May 21, 2010 6:53:19 GMT
If Hasbro can make figures based on Don Figueroa's designs, then they can make an Impactor based on Nick's work. I can't wait for Hasbro I'm already working on my own. Nick did bloody well have to wait till issue 5 to show the tank mode. 4 months I've been waiting. Andy
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Post by charlesrocketboy on May 21, 2010 15:27:16 GMT
[spoilers]Ironfist! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! We knew something was wrong with him but damn, what a kick in the teeth. I love so many things here: Overlord's total collapse when he finds out Megatron isn't coming, Pyro's horrific last stand, the discussion on the Aequitas trials, Verity on "Fisitron's Wreckers", Impactor's epiphany, the lashings of violence, Ironfist's sneaky plan... And it sure looks to me like Prowl's breaking the chip, how about anyone else?[/spoiler]
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Post by skillex on May 21, 2010 17:28:14 GMT
Wow. Wow wow wow wow wow. Like many others, I have LOVED this series, and the finale did not disappoint. Can't really put together a coherent review so here's an assortment of thoughts... Ironfist - I agree with the NOOOO!!! but it was done extremely well. Verity bawling her eyes out was particularly touching.
Aquetas Trials. Love to see more of High Justice Tyrest.
Prowl is still an "ends justifies the means" kind of bot but ultimately even though he planned to use Ironfist he did give him what he wanted.
Pyro: redeemed.
EMIRATE XAARON!!!
Overlord extremely well handed. Creepy, scary, mad. Loved it.
Hmmm, what will Impactor and Guzzle get up to?
Kup, Springer and Fort Max on Earth I assume?
No more word on Shockwave. I look forward to "Shockwave's resurgence" (as noted by Jetfire in Revelation #4) as his "handpicked crew" presumably includes an unwilling Scorponok and Grimlock.
"Ten soldiers and a stowaway rode into the Valley of Death" - Tennyson paraphrased for Transformers and it just seemed to right. Ultimately that phrase has summed up this entire brutal yet brilliant series. Oh, and spoilers for LSotW and Eugenesis... Ironfist ... data chip. Nightbeat ... floppy disk.
Yeah yeah, I think (and oddly, sort of hope) he's gone for good, but I wondered if anyone else has spotted this - potentially coincidental - "get out" clause for the 'bot? In short, more please. Roche and Roberts for another miniseries. Or, even better, a space-set Ongoing for them to go alongside the Earth-set ongoing.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 21, 2010 17:32:01 GMT
And it sure looks to me like Prowl's breaking the chip, how about anyone else? Nah. Yeah yeah, I think (and oddly, sort of hope) he's gone for good, but I wondered if anyone else has spotted this - potentially coincidental - "get out" clause for the 'bot? Also, Prime in 'Afterdeath' and Shockwave in 'Gone But Not Forgotten'. Martin
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Post by The Doctor on May 22, 2010 10:04:29 GMT
Ralph's mind is going to pop thanks to the cameo of a certain favourite character of his near the end. It did indeed pop. XAARON!!!! Just read #5. Brilliant comic. More detailed thoughts when I have time. Best single issue of anything I've read in a while. -Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 22, 2010 10:23:22 GMT
But at the same time, I'd say that the comic succeeded as a periodical in that I wanted to read the next issue when I finished one. Not many comics do that these days and I'm going to miss that feeling. True, but don't you think the month gaps are a tad too long for sustaining momentum? I felt this more here than in the old days, because Marvel UK was weekly (like most TV series), and the Marvel US issues were dense as hell and usually fairly self-contained story-wise. LSOTW was like being spoon-fed 20-minute segments of a movie with month-long gaps in between. Yes, it's a tribute to the writing that people remained excited during those month-long gaps. But did any of those people want to have to wait a month? Doubt it! And now it's complete, thankfully they don't have to... Martin
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Post by Jaymz on May 22, 2010 11:16:01 GMT
True, but don't you think the month gaps are a tad too long for sustaining momentum? I felt this more here than in the old days, because Marvel UK was weekly (like most TV series), and the Marvel US issues were dense as hell and usually fairly self-contained story-wise. LSOTW was like being spoon-fed 20-minute segments of a movie with month-long gaps in between. As a regular US comics reader, I am quite used to the month gaps. Probably different for me, as it's my job and I deal with 100s of titles a month, so I always have something to occupy my comic reading time with. If Wreckers was all I was reading a month, then yes, I would be more annoyed by the month gap.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2010 18:59:45 GMT
I've still got to read issues 3 and 4 and still buy issue 5 but the series seems to be getting quite a lot of good reviews - something which I myself agree with because I thought that the first two issues were two of the best IDW TF issues I had read in a long while.
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Post by grahamthomson on May 24, 2010 20:27:12 GMT
My copy of #5 arrived today and was waiting for me when I got home from work. So many thoughts and emotions are swirling around my head, having just read all five issues back-to-back. But for the time being:
I... wow.
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Post by Benn on May 24, 2010 21:03:36 GMT
Can we swear here? Just in case:
Oh. My. Fsuking. God.
I normally won't resort to that sort of colorful language, but... but...
I've been mighty impressed with this whole series, so much so that I was almost afraid to read this last issue. Part of me didn't want it to be over, didn't want to know what horrible things were going to happen to these poor fellas. So I snuck a look at the first page. And-well, I guess you all know the kind of feeling that gave me, because I imagine that you felt something similar, going from the reations.
My initial reaction was to proclaim this the best TF story to have been officially published. When I've had time to reflect on it a bit more we'll see if my opinion changes. But it knocks the big Menasor showdown in the ongoing into a cocked hat, and no mistake.
Only thing, it doesn't mention what happened to Perceptor, unless I missed something. Do we just assume he's on Earth and fine, nothing worth mentioning?
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Post by legios on May 24, 2010 21:10:52 GMT
Just finished reading #5 this evening. Am now planning to sit down and read the whole series back to back. An actual review and response of #5 once I have cogitated and digested on it.
But as an initial response - that was a genuinely impressive and satisfying read, both as a single issue and as the closer to a miniseries. Not only one of the best Transformers comics I have read in a good long while, but one of the best comics of any kind I have read for quite some time.
Karl
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 25, 2010 6:19:54 GMT
Only thing, it doesn't mention what happened to Perceptor, unless I missed something. Do we just assume he's on Earth and fine, nothing worth mentioning? On the one hand, he was shot by the same cannon that took off two Decepticons' heads simultaneously earlier in the series. On the other hand, there was that crap story by some dude who wasn't James or Nick, in which Perceptor gave himself a new armoured breastplate to protect him from having holes blown in him in future. Looks like that paid off. Martin
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Post by Bogatan on May 25, 2010 8:01:50 GMT
On the one hand, he was shot by the same cannon that took off two Decepticons' heads simultaneously earlier in the series. On the other hand, there was that crap story by some dude who wasn't James or Nick, in which Perceptor gave himself a new armoured breastplate to protect him from having holes blown in him in future. Looks like that paid off. Martin The one thing I noticed about the deaths on rereading was that non of them seemed a permenant as the initially appeared. The two cons that Overlord shot during the hunt were left for dead, the Autobot was taken back so they could have more fun. The phrasing was that being left for dead was a punishment not becase they were beyond repair. Springers injury in the flashback was survived and Snare and Springer could have survived having half their faces ripped off. Destroying enough of the head or destroying the spark seem the only two certain ways to utterly kill someone and even then how permenant it is could be questionable. I'm thinking of all the BW characters reborn on Earth with new personalities and mo memory of their old lives. Rotorstorm had his head destroyed, maybe that also damamged his spark too, but if it didn't the body and spark could be repaired, with the head damage the autobot that recovered wouldn't be Rotorstorm anymore, but would be alive. As a turbomaster he'd have plenty of other names to go by, as would Pyro if he was somehow recovered, though that seems less likely. Andy
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Dave
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Post by Dave on May 25, 2010 10:29:50 GMT
Wow. The various delays to issues has been annoying but it has been a joy to read the series and a treat for the eyes as well. Not much more to say really - I think I'll be grinning like an idiot for the rest of the week. RE: SpringerAnd his fearlessness in the present doesn't really mesh with his lack of courage when Impactor proposed shooting through his midsection. Past experiences shape identity. I guess the events of Pova had a big impact. Appaprently not. Well I suppose he could switch himself off but poor Springer was trying to talk him out of it right up until the trigger was pulled.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 26, 2010 6:06:00 GMT
Destroying enough of the head or destroying the spark seem the only two certain ways to utterly kill someone and even then how permenant it is could be questionable. Question: In Marvel, there was no spark, just the brain module programmed with life by the Matrix. The entire body could be destroyed, but if the brain module was preserved (e.g. the Throttlebots' brains put into toy cars) the character survived. Also, if the mind was copied into a crystal or floppy disk, and the brain destroyed, the character survived. In Beast Wars / Beast Machines, they had sparks, and the mind seemed to be all in the spark. The entire body could be destroyed, but if the spark was preserved (e.g. Starscream), the character survived. Sparks were capable of containing personality, memories, everything. In IDW, it sounds like they have both. So what is the spark for in IDW, and why is it needed when they have their minds in cerebral circuits in their heads? Martin
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Post by Bogatan on May 26, 2010 6:37:30 GMT
Ive not paid that much attention and am basing this on Arcees Spotlight and what I read in LSOTW. When the spark is removed the spark seems fully aware or at least a complete personality. But it seem there is a physical component by the way Snare died and the cerebros shells seemed to target something physical. Maybe the physical part contains memories and if destryed the spark can survive or be rehoused but would either be a brand new personality or be as it was millions of years ago when it first came online.
Andy
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