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Post by The Doctor on Jul 27, 2009 20:31:15 GMT
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Post by blueshift on Jul 27, 2009 21:10:03 GMT
Poor Bob, being asked all those inane fan questions.
What an ace guy though. My opinion of him has changed so much over the years (in a good way!)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2009 22:32:29 GMT
What a silly Q&A. I only read about half of it before I gave up on it. If somebody was going to ask Bob a few questions couldn't they of at least found someone who wasn't a drooling fanboy?
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Jul 28, 2009 10:58:17 GMT
I liked Bob's utter confusion over this guy's graphic novel project.
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Post by blueshift on Jul 28, 2009 11:16:55 GMT
It is nice they guy is dedicated, but what is a Sha'ar anyway
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Jul 28, 2009 11:26:57 GMT
Sure the guy isnt mixed up with Chaar - but that word does look like something from series 3. Shaar. is it a space system or lifeform name?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2009 22:44:27 GMT
A Sharr is just some pointless fanboy muttering. It's probably a race of beings commanded by Starscream whose only objective is to unseat Megatron and claim the Matrix!
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 30, 2009 6:16:34 GMT
When they made blockbuster movies of the various Marvel and DC superheroes they alway credited the original creators upfront. Isn't it rather unfair that the live-action TF movies don't credit Bob Budiansky explicitly for coming up with the original plot concept and characters, including their names (Cybertron, Matrix, Witwicky, Megatron, Starscream, Ratchet, Ironhide, etc.)? There are a lot of his plot elements lurking in the first two films. I think they should even have given him a Stan Lee-type cameo.  Martin |
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Post by legios on Jul 30, 2009 6:28:49 GMT
It is indeed a great pity - Bob Budiansky hasn't really received the recognition that he deserves for his contribution, considering how large it actually is.
Karl
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Post by jameso on Jul 30, 2009 9:06:58 GMT
At Botcon they had an audience panel with the writers of the G1 cartoon and several of the questions went along the lines of 'I loved the Transformers cartoon when I was little and still do, my dad wasn't around much so I always looked up to Optimus Prime... How did you create all this amazing stuff' and I thought I could see the writers looking at each other kind of embarassed because they didn't come up with any of it, they just wrote stories using a concept someone else (Bob) had structured.
I think a lot of people, and a lot of people connected to the movies, still think Transformers is a toyline and don't realise that someone created the storyline mythology for it in much the same way someone created Spider-Man, Batman, Star Trek and so on.
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Post by grahamthomson on Jul 30, 2009 12:42:09 GMT
Interesting interview!
I certainly have more appreciation for his work now than I used to.
And I can't blame him for viewing his time on Transformers as a job and no more. It's probably a very healthy attitude in all fairness. Actually, I wonder what it would be like to not be obsessed with Transformers...
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dyrl
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Post by dyrl on Jul 30, 2009 13:38:19 GMT
I demand Hasbro produce Masterpiece Ulchtar and call him that!
Pete
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Post by The Doctor on Jul 30, 2009 19:11:50 GMT
Interesting interview! And I can't blame him for viewing his time on Transformers as a job and no more. It's probably why he does not get the widespread fan recognition he deserves (unfairly, in my opinion). Perhaps it's hard to accept that someone who created a lot of stories/characters which gave much childhood joy did it just as another job rather than any other burning desire. Whereas Furman and the like have been very visible over the years and remember more of what they did. -Ralph |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 30, 2009 19:20:58 GMT
If Bob had been wired like other writers, he could have kept going indefinitely by endlessly repeating variations of his great original plots. But that wasn't his style. When he ran out of original ideas, it never occurred to him to recycle and recycle again, and so he just fizzled out and ended his run on some stinkers. Other writers can keep writing and writing forever because they're happy to do similar things to what they did previously and not worry about whether they've lost their originality.
Neither way is right or wrong in my opinion. I judge creators on their original work only - of which Simon Furman has had his fair share in his time.
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2009 22:55:46 GMT
I think it was good that Bob finished while he did. He didn't end his Marvel US run on a high but he did end it before he dropped to the has-been league. Ending your run while you're at the top of your game (or in Bob's case near the top of your game) makes you a legend. If you spend several years writing terrible stuff then people are going to remember you for your bad stuff just as much as your good stuff and in my opinion Bob quit at just the right time. If he continued would he still be looked upon today the way we currently see him?
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 31, 2009 5:51:57 GMT
If he'd been less concerned with trying to do something different all the time, and had no qualms about doing further stuff along the lines of stuff he'd done before (such as the Shockwave saga and the Smelting Pool saga), I think he might be still going and looked upon much as Furman is looked upon today.
He could still be writing Transformers and still be as popular as he was at his prime. And he might not have had that tailing off towards the end of his run, because instead of trying to think of new things and coming up with Micromaster wrestling he could have had a new Decepticon leader arrive circa US #50 (as Shockwave did in #4/5), beat up Scorponok, conquer the Ark again, etc., etc. Or have more dark stories of the Decepticons' reign of terror on Cybertron, or further afield.
But once he'd done something once, it wasn't Bob's style to do it again, so he petered out. (Just look how hard he tried to do something new and experimental every month - virtual reality Prime, Throttlebots in toy cars, Skullgrin the movie star, Cosmic Carnival, Decepticon island resort, etc.) Furman, on the other hand, is happy to do the same things more than once in different guises, so he keeps going forever.
If you look at any writer or artist who just keeps on going and going, in any medium, I think you'll see their original stuff concentrated in their early portfolio, and most of their later stuff just variations on the theme, with maybe the odd original idea dotted here and there. No person - or franchise, for that matter - can sustain originality indefinitely. Those who do great work and then stop, or drop in quality and end up has-beens, are simply those who don't have the knack of recycling.
Most of the originality in Transformers in concentrated in the mid-1980s with odd moments of originality subsequent to that.
Martin
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Post by blueshift on Jul 31, 2009 8:57:43 GMT
I have a soft spot for Micromaster wrestling  |
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dyrl
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Post by dyrl on Jul 31, 2009 19:20:59 GMT
Interesting analysis as always, Martin.
I guess I kind of agree with your view of Budiansky - but then again, I think I prefer his originality to what came after (the recycling). Even his "worse" stories are great in my opinion. The entire 80s Marvel comics run is just such a supreme story telling effort.
Budiansky didn't need to love Transformers to make a good Transformers story - in fact, I submit to you the following:
It would have been IMPOSSIBLE for Budiansky to have created his Transformers stories out of "love for the mythos/characters" because - news flash: There were NO Mythos OR characters!
Budiansky was given a bunch of toys and told "here - make a story out of these."
Furman and subsequent TF writers (even TV writers like Bob Forward et al) had the benefit of a huge mythos that they had to follow, respect, disregard - but always somehow reference.
But Budiansky just had a bunch of plastic toys and an order to make a background story because somebody in marketing thought it would help sell toys rather than just label them generic "car action robot"
Now - Budiansky was CLEARLY a master story teller. Not a master Transformers story teller - no. Just a master story teller.
And the fact that what he wrote served as the basis for everything that came after - as the basis for the legend - is a testimony to how well he wrote.
I mean - look...lemme put it this way:
Sit down and try to write a story about Nightbeat, or about Optimus Prime, or Bumblebee, or Ironhide, or Brawn.
When you do so - you can't help but consider what you know about the character; what they've been through in all the comics and cartoons and movies, and what this might imply about their state of mind, history, personality etc.
But - imagine that none of this exists.
Imagine that all you have is a plastic car that turns into a clunky robot. Imagine that there was never a television cartoon or comic you fondly remember. Just this thing.
Now - suddenly, the basis of your story telling, your point of entrance into story telling is not going to be "the history of Brawn" or "the character of Ironhide" - no. It's just going to be:
"Dag. I have thirty toy cars that turn into robots and I need to make up some names and some stories...hm...ok...this one is...umm...a black and white beetle...a bug...a black and white bug...a bumblebee...ok...that one is...umm...he's a tough looking minivan...Ironhide...wow...look at all that diecast metal in his frame...um...and that one..."
and then:
"Hm...ok...now...let's see...they come to Earth from a planet full of robot transformers...ok...and...hmm...they fight over fuel...and they need fuel. So...they have to find fuel, but it's an alien planet and they know nothing about it...hmm...so let's see...the bad guys will build a base from a Nuclear Powerplant not knowing that what they're demolishing is a source of fuel...."
In short - you kind of have to think up these story arcs and templates- these overarching themes WITHIN which the characters develop.
See - the characters we all love became lovable because Budiansky gave them a CONTEXT within which to develop - and I think it was that context, the story template, the plot-frame if you will - that helped mould the legend - not the other way around.
So - really - to think it "strange" that Budiansky is not a "lover" of Transformers yet managed to "create" this legend is wrong.
He ironically could not be a lover of something that hadn't been made - that he had to make up as he went along.
And all the while it was his genius as a creator of story templates that helped set the stage for the characters and story to evolve in the way we love and remember.
I think all of the interviews to date have done a bad job in getting to the heart of Budiansky as a writer- mainly because they keep asking these silly questions about Budiansky as the writer of Transformers... these inane questions that assume that Budiansky had this pre-existing vision of Shockwave and Starscream as these deep characters with extremely well developed arcs - nope.
What he had was a series of frameworks - great ideas.
See - I figure the reason other writers wanted nothing to do with the project was because they saw all these toy cars and were like - "ok - this will last like four issues, and all it will do is sell some toys and it'll be like writing Captain Crunch comics for the Capt'n Crunch serial. I'm more ambitious than that..."
Budiansky saw it and said "yeah whatever I have nothing to do - I'll take this" and because he is a professional writer (he says he was a story editor - so his job was always not to care about the 'passionate detail' of a saga but to get a good story framework - to come up with an arc that would be interesting and full of potential)...
And Budiansky did it and using this method managed to do what was very hard - namely continue to write a comic with a huge cast.
Towards the end, you're right - he was getting burned out.
Too bad they didn't find an equally professional story writer.
What we've had since then is exactly what Martin calls recycling. variations, commentary, homages...oh God is it boring.
What I would give for Bob Budiansky originality.
Give us some new characters - no more Prime, Megatron, Starscream bla bla bla. New characters. New settings, new stories.
Last time we had that was Beast Wars.
Pete
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jul 31, 2009 20:01:51 GMT
Dammit, Pete, I was getting all worked up to reply to your post with, "For the first time ever, I agree with your detailed opinions on something 100%," only you had to go and end with that line about Beast Wars... which I disagree with. Change the last line to "Last time we had that was Masterforce," and I'll agree with you 100% (see my views on the originality of characters and themes in one episode here). But Beast Wars? Nah, that was just recycling/variations - its originality was only superficial. Certainly not in the Budiansky/Masterforce league. I guess I kind of agree with your view of Budiansky - but then again, I think I prefer his originality to what came after. So do I - I apologise if my tone suggested otherwise. I'm glad he didn't recycle, and just stopped. If I liked recyclers I'd still be buying today's TF comics and watching today's TF cartoons, which I'm not. I have absolutely nothing against them but the fact that they're still doing the same old thing. Martin |
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Jul 31, 2009 21:49:32 GMT
New characters. New settings, new stories. Last time we had that was Beast Wars. Last time we had new characters would be Robots In Disguise - Side Burn, Sky-Byte and the Predacon Trio etc were new guys. |
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dyrl
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Post by dyrl on Aug 1, 2009 7:36:40 GMT
Well - I just have to insert a point about "recycling" - I'm right now watching the second season of Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya and... well.. the second episode is titled Endless Eight and it's all about how the main cast has fun during summer vacation - they do A, B, C and D. the third episode...is titled Endless Eight and it's all about how the main cast has fun during summer vacation - they do A, B, C and D. the fourth episode....is titled Endless Eight and it's all about how the main cast has fun during summer vacation - they do A, B, C and D. the fifth episode...is titled Endless Eight and it's all about how the main cast has fun during summer vacation - they do A, B, C and D. the sixth episode...is titled Endless Eight and it's all about how the main cast has fun during summer vacation - they do A, B, C and D. And...on it goes - the SAME DAMN EPISODE OVER AND OVER AND OVER!!! BRAIN EXPLODES!! Although - I will swear that there are SLIGHT variations in each episodes - scenes added and left out I'm blown away that they risked doing something this crazy... It's not even "recycling" a theme - it's just showing the same damn episode over and over and over again I couldn't help but consider that that might have actually worked BETTER for Transformers I mean - given how the toys never look show accurate anyways - they could have just kept showing "G1" (original) cartoons up to now.... would it REALLY have made that much of a difference? ... Welll... I guess it would have, judging by how many young Unicron Trilogy fans there are (way younger than me at least)... Oh well... And ... hm...about Beast Wars... I agree with you on that too Martin - probably why in the end, I had no qualms about selling off my Beast Wars collection I'm totally focused on the original Transformers (American/Japanese) right now. Pete |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 25, 2010 17:28:47 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 29, 2010 18:27:02 GMT
Hooray for Uncle Bob.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 16, 2011 16:40:04 GMT
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 17, 2011 10:03:22 GMT
I've had a few busy days so things of been kind of blurry. But I looked this up this morning and was delighted it wasn't something I'd imagined. Listening to it now.
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Post by blueshift on Jan 17, 2011 10:14:26 GMT
I've had a few busy days so things of been kind of blurry. But I looked this up this morning and was delighted it wasn't something I'd imagined. Listening to it now. Is there a transcript yet, or do I have to wait till I get home from work to listen to it? |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 17, 2011 12:23:06 GMT
I wouldn't have thought so. So yeah, listen when you get in. It's great stuff!
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 25, 2011 8:20:40 GMT
Caught it properly last night. Very interesting stuff.
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jan 17, 2017 23:20:20 GMT
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 18, 2017 19:05:13 GMT
Nice. Anything from Robbins or Malek is useful for me!
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