The Revelations Saga

[The Doctor]

Revelation series has been revealed,
I shall keep my eyes peeled.
Change in structure is encouraging,
For plot development this should mean less foraging.
Four issues is better than six,
It allows for more narrative tricks.

-Ralph

[Deleted]

Nice poem, I won't even attempt to follow suit.

Curious structure change.

Interesting that Su's sketch has Hardhead as the 4th, but then gets bumped up to 2nd.

The other 2 look like Sideswipe and (Double)Dealer to me. Wonder where Cyclonus comes in - agent of Galvatron and Jhiaxus?

[charlesrocketboy]

This could be interesting. However...

the final TRANSFORMERS storyline in Simon Furman's "-tion" saga will begin this summer.

What happened to Expansion?

[The Doctor]

Perhaps there has been a change of plan,
That boy Furman is a creative man.
Expansion may still be coming,
Let us hope it is not humming.

-Ralph

[Deleted]

I haven't got my rhyming head screwed on at the moment so I'll just post a normal message.

The Revelation and Spotlight issues are becoming one comic for this story, there are only four issues instead of the normal six and Expansion has gone astray. Some would argue that this signals the begining of the end for IDW's Transformers tales.

[The Doctor]

Who says that on the net?
To Fanboy Paranoia Land they should get!
I never understand why fans worry so much whether or not they are called Bob?
Maybe what they need is a good *******.

-Ralph

[legios]

A four issue story sounds good as it is short,
which should the story make to be taut.

Recent stories have been loggy instead of snappy
which has the effect of making Karl unhappy.

Plans for the future it seems they conceal
until it is time for solicititations to reveal

More Transformers comics even if not now
IDW will do for it is their cash cow.

Karl

[charlesrocketboy]

As long as it's followed up by a Spotlight: Sunstreaker.

And a Spotlight: Scorponok.

And when you put both covers side-by-side, they're fighting each other!

[Deleted]

Both Spolights to be drawn by Nick
Then Spotlight Longtooth to make us sick

[The Doctor]

Surely you lie,
Or I shall cry.

-Ralph

[Deleted]

Well he's all locked up in a personal hell
Surely there must be a story to tell?

[The Doctor]

There will never be a Spotlight: Longtooth,
That is such an untruth!
I hate his beady little eye,
Even more than most fungi.

Longtooth is a crap fake pirate,
Thankgoodness he has no mullet.
For if that was to come to pass,
I would break his face with a glass.

No other character in fiction annoys me so,
Not even the horned chap who dwells below.
He is more useless than a dodo,
My word, he drives me coco!

-Ralph

[Andy Turnbull]

Into this thread I must interject,
Your public hatred of Longtooth,
hides a love most circumspect,
But aside from this I have an new topic to broach,
Head off to this link and see new work from Nick Roche.

Andy

[The Doctor]

My word, those pictures are the dogs bollocks,
I must switch on all the house locks.
I shall stay in and gaze at the art,
In this confined atmosphere I try not to fart.

-Ralph

[charlesrocketboy]

Furman confirms in his blog comments that his plans have been altered and Expansion won't be happening (though he may recycle unused bits in later stuff) as the Dead Universe story gets a line drawn under it here.

Also, Doubledealer and Sideswipe Spotlights!

And he says hello to the whole of Poland, his genetic homeland.

[Rich]

May contain spoilers...

Okay, having literally just finished reading Prime, Dev, Arcee, Blaster and Ramjet (cheers Jim, who has been keeping them for me), I have rather a jumble of thoughts about the idw universe that I'm going to work through in this post, but this does mean some of my points may contain spoilers if you haven't read Dev and some of what I say won't pertain directly to this thread. If either of things are a problem, then look away now.

Go on, look away...

Don't worry, you'll not miss anything, I'm not that interesting.

Okay, on your head be it...

Here's the thing, I can only care about so many TF universes, I care about tmuk and marvel and original BW, which to me are the same, but I don't care about DW (any of them), the movie verse (any of them), collectors club or really any of the non BW toons (although I enjoy some of the Japanese stuff and I'm curious about the new one) or IDW or any other company's 'what if' / crossover titles. I'll read, watch and even pay for all of the above, but they don't matter to me any more, they're done, I'm done with them, I have no particular desire to reread, write or talk about them. I just don't really care that much.

I do care about the idw verse, even while I've been out of the country and unable to read the books I've been interested enough to glance at the hub and the idw boards in an attempt to glean what info I could without exposing myself to major spoilers (the only real mistake was reading Furman's Mosaic, and I could have guessed that anyway), I buy the comics and the trades and I've read all of them several times, but based on the last couple of issues of Dev and the news in this thread, I'm slightly concerned about where the story and the comics are going.

I like idw, they care about the fans, they try and give them a good product, but I don't think their publishing strategy has been well thought out and I think that's done a lot to harm the story.

The first two trades make a great read, but the time it took to read those stories as single issues really dragged down the enjoyment factor. The reason given has been that Su needs to be given a rest (Furman clearly happy to write a million books a week), but with not disrespect to Su (who did some great work: the first issue of Dev was exceptionally nice) the fill-in artists (that's a horribly disparaging term, especially as both did a fantastic job) showed that what this was special treatment that wasn't really required and was actually harming the story.

It appears to me that Furman isn't now going to tell the story he planned, essentially because its time has come and gone. This doesn't mean the new direction will be bad, but it's a shame in my opinion that the comic couldn't have been released at a better pace: by now we would probably have been done with the whole -tion saga and it would have been much more satisfying.

On one reading, Dev is frustrating, again because of pacing. The first 4 issues, as individual comics are great, but the first issue should have been the last issue of Escalation, and the last two were...I don't know what they were really. So many bad guys! So many super-powered bad guys! Ultimately, a comic about a conflict is normally going to be end with a big fight, normally with the good guy winning. It becomes ever more difficult to give a story a satisfying conclusion when this basic premise has to be followed time and again (ie to make each mini feel 'complete'), the satisfaction factor is eroded still further when so many big bads are fought in just a couple of issues. Surely this wasn't how Furman originally envisioned Dev ending? The original Decep crew from Infiltration + Meg have only really just become interesting and yet we had to deal with Sixshot, the Reapers, the Machination, the US government, and these Dead Universe types none of which have really had the screen time to make them particularly interesting (Furman needing to take some of the blame because his fun, but overlong chase subplots used up far too many pages - the fact that several of these subplots have been resolved offscreen only making them more unsatisfying) and yet it seems all of them will have been dealt with in a pretty half-arsed manner (part of which required the completely unbelievable withdrawal of the Autobots from Earth) in two issues and 4 Spotlights, which, we're told, will still have time to deliver interesting insights into four characters. Was this Furman's plan, or was he told halfway through Dev that a decision had been made to change the focus of the line and start wrapping up his threads very quickly?

And so, 3 months into 08 we are still being told that this year is going to blow our minds, but I can't help but wonder how and why? We've already seen the solicits up to June and it all still seems to be speculation and hype.

It annoys me that I've just enjoyed the first 4 Dev issues so much and yet I have more concerns about the story than confidence. But at least I still care, I don't want to end up not caring.

[Deleted]

I concur that the last 2 issues of Devastation suddenly wrapping up loose threads with minimal explanation, combined with the Revised Revelation announcement reek of editorial losing faith in the original plan and demanding a drastic change in direction.

[Andy Turnbull]

It might not be editorial that asked for the wrap-up. It could be Hasbro themselves.

There is also the option that messrs Furman, Ryall et. al came up with a better idea than the one in play for Revelations.

Andy

[Andy Turnbull]

Although that still doesn't excuse them from the terribly flat ending of Devastation.

Andy

[legios]

rich said:

The first two trades make a great read, but the time it took to read those stories as single issues really dragged down the enjoyment factor.

The "single issue" problem is at the root of my disquiet with IDW. Comics have stopped being particularly cheap and as a result I want to be sure I am getting bang for my buck, and some of the time I'm not feeling that I am getting that from IDW's Transformers stuff. I've felt that some of the issues simply didn't have a lot of content to them. I actually gave up on "Infiltration" fairly early on because of that. "Stormbringer" was better because is was a little bit tighter storywise. Both "Escalation" and "Devestation" I felt had a couple of issues each that just felt like padding - "Escalation" in the middle, and Devastation unfortunately at the end. It has made them somewhat of a frustrating read to be honest.

It also seems that the various series seem to have somewhat of a problem with their endings. In "Escalation" it felt like two groups of robots turned up to have a fight for a few issues, and then at the end of the comic one group just went away. "Devastation" seemed content to not actually have any clearly definable ending as such. Instead a bunch of robots who hadn't really been set up within the miniseries suddenely show up in the middle of one fight, and start a second fight - our protagionists slope off quietly and vacate their own comic whilst the fight is going on (and Furman had the temerity to actually wrap up a sub-plot that "Devastation" had inherited from the previous mini-series off-panel). Then after the fight we have a final page, the last image of the series, being two characters - one of whom hasn't appeared in the mini at all - standing in front of a black background basically saying "They'll be another series soon and stuff will happen in it. Please buy it". I never thought I would say it at the time it came out, but the structurally soundest ending of the IDW TF series I have read is actually that of "Stormbringer". By contrast to that "Escalation" and "Devastation" don't really seem to end. They just run out of page count and stop.

It's a shame because their series seem to start out so well, but just fall apart along the way.

On one reading, Dev is frustrating, again because of pacing. The first 4 issues, as individual comics are great, but the first issue should have been the last issue of Escalation, and the last two were...I don't know what they were really. So many bad guys! So many super-powered bad guys!

I'm not sure that the last two issues of "Devastation" were actually about anything. They just seem to be filled with a random fight. It is a shame because the first four issues had been a nice pacy story about the Autobots trying to string together a fighting retreat. Then the ABC Warrior knock-offs suddenly appear and pick a fight for no obvious reason, and it all goes horribly wrong.

I have to say that I have been swithering about whether to stick with the IDW comics to be honest. I always start out quite enjoying a series, only for it to fall apart on me at the end.

(part of which required the completely unbelievable withdrawal of the Autobots from Earth)

I actually don't find the Autobots withdrawal from Earth that unbelievable. Earth is just another one of the innumerable conflict zones in the Autobot-Decepticon war, and moreover one that has lost it strategic value. The thing that made Earth important was Ore-13, a supposedly war-winning resource. With Ore-13 being revealed to be far less than it is cracked up to be, and far from a war winner, Earth loses its strategic value. There are other fronts to the war, of greater importance in the larger scheme. No sense in wasting resources fighting a conflict that the Autobots don't need to win.

Karl

[Rich]

The way you explain it Karl, I agree the withdrawal makes sense, but I can only say that it felt weird. Firstly because Furman had gone to so much trouble to make Earth important (to be honest I can't remember what the final verdict on Ore 13 was - I know it was shown to have limitations, but aren't the Deceps using it in the fight against the shake 'n' vac universal cleaners? To be honest, to me it just felt it was forgotten about in the welter of unresolved plotlines. A second problem with it is that you have to _really_ believe that gestalts are a huge threat to the universe, and you'd only think that if you'd read (and to be honest I still wasn't that convinced) Spotlight Prime; I thought the purpose of the Spotlights was to deepen, not to explain the main universe. Finally, for all that this is a new Prime who has shown himself to be more commanding and decisive than previous incarnations, I would have at least expected him to say something like, 'Ore 13 is no longer the threat it ocne seemed, in terms of destructive power such an such another plot point is more important. I feel really sorry for the humans but...' or something - anything - rather than just, 'Tough, Ratchet, we're leaving.' And frankly, the Autobots leaving is such a major plot point it should have got at least a couple of the pages that were wasted on fights and chases. It just reminded me of the offhand way Brad Mick blew up the Ark.

So all this can be blamed on Furman for bad structuring, and yes, in that case a new writer will be a relief, or else it's bad editing. I've always felt the Furman is fond of Transformers, especially for the career it has given him the opportunity to enjoy and for keeping him gainfully employed, but equally, he's a realist and professional, and if he's told that he needs to wrap it all up he isn't going to complain, he'll do it and move pragmatically on to the next script he's been paid to write. Perhaps Death's Head taught him not to get too attached to anything he writes.

[charlesrocketboy]

admin said:

Although that still doesn't excuse them from the terribly flat ending of Devastation.

I blame the Reapers. Cut the Reapers out, they could've have the Machination VS Decepticons instead and that might've been more lively (for a start, Scorponok) and it'd make more sense - then it'd be two Decepticon-headed villain teams out to exploit the Earth, there's more interest than "Decepticons VS boring aliens".

And considering the Autobots have been "devastated" and have to withdraw for another battle, maybe they should've left in issue 5 and be totally absent from 6 to emphasise we're all doomed.

[The Doctor]

Good last point, Charles.

In other news, I'm unclear as to to the Reaper's aims. If they fart about space devastating planets, why did they not make a bee-line for some heaviliy populated part of Earth with lots of humans rather than an isolated bit of Nebraska where the Decepticons were busy hiding in a bunker doing fuck all anyway?

-Ralph

[charlesrocketboy]

They want Earth destroyed coz the TFs are fighting over it, so attacking a faction of TFs first makes... well, some sense. But not much, since they could devastate whole planets in Spotlight Sixshot and yet here just walk about shooting at the base.

God, I'm glad Galvatron killed them all.

[The Doctor]

Re-read Revelation the other night. Improves with each read. Well packed plot, really enjoyable.

-Ralph

[blueshift]

It suffered from having to be Spotlights too, but the final issue is nothing short of amazing, in every single way.

[Andy Turnbull]

That final issue is indeed tops.

Andy

[charlesrocketboy]

Some people don't like that issue.

Fie on them!

[Andy Turnbull]

Those people need help.

Andy

[Dave]

Really enjoyed Revelations though I don't get why they did it in the spotlight format. Just a normal 4-issue mini would have worked fine and removed the "isn't this issue supposed to be about..." factor.