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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 4, 2011 16:06:15 GMT
Philip has been pointed at a potentially HUGE spoiler sitting in front of us for the last year and a half. Have a look at the symbol on the arms of the uniforms in Time of the Angels. Also seen on the Caps tonight |
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Post by blueshift on Jun 4, 2011 20:57:31 GMT
That was tops, lovely load of action, some great humour: loved the Sontaran nurse! and always nice to be proved right with the reveal. We paid close attention to those banners hanging there didn't we? I didn't, what did I miss  |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 4, 2011 21:12:23 GMT
And the Cyberships - Lovely updated version of The Invasion design! Matt: Stylised Greek Omega same as we saw on the army uniforms in Time of the Angels last year. |
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Post by blueshift on Jun 4, 2011 21:19:44 GMT
And the Cyberships - Lovely updated version of The Invasion design! Matt: Stylised Greek Omega same as we saw on the army uniforms in Time of the Angels last year. Well yes, the army people were Clerics, they even had that on their uniforms. Unless you mean a certain classic villain is coming back, and while that would be awesome, I can't see that happening since there has been absolutely zero foreshadowing. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 4, 2011 21:22:44 GMT
Well who are they all worshipping then? If they're Christian clerics then that symbol would be accompanied by an alpha symbol too. No they're into something, or someone, well dodgy. |
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Post by blueshift on Jun 4, 2011 21:26:16 GMT
Holy crap I think you might be right  I will not get my hopes up though. But I hope if it is him, that he is played by Peter Davison |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 4, 2011 21:33:20 GMT
He also has a history with duplicates of the Doctor |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 5, 2011 13:38:22 GMT
Matt: Don't forget the very famous scene where Omega removes his helmet and there's nothing there
Now look at the Headless Monks...... |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 5, 2011 13:45:52 GMT
Just found another one of them here |
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Post by sf1378 on Jun 5, 2011 17:56:38 GMT
The Guardian review is spot on...Big woop, Smith 'got angry'....Tennant did it much, much better.
I agree with the beret symbol, and the Headless Monks connection, Moffat has said the armies of the series now seem to be Clerical, like the armies of the old Holy Roman Empire of Papal Rome....If it is a correct conceit it would be nice and fits in correctly with the rumour of 'THE BIG BAAAAADDDD' for the new series....
But like that review, it wasn't much at all. His 'army was naff'. I didn't really care who they where.
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Post by sf1378 on Jun 6, 2011 1:22:13 GMT
A clever conceit. All points I'm well aware of also but to suddenly reveal he's on cycle II sooner or later would be rather hackneyed. If it had be revealed around the time of John Simms Master revealing he'd been resurrected i.e.
'The Timelords only resurrected me...' convo he had with The Doc and then The Doc mentioned it had happened to him too, i.e. he'd 'died' then been given a whole new set of 12 then it would work well as a plot line. Its established that Smith is 11, suddenly reneging on that would be naff.
What could be cool would be we get a 12th Doc, and in his final adventure the arc could be his realisation he'll die, once and for all. For all his fear when he was going to regenerate from 10 to 11 he essentially would still live on. He knew that deep down. But on his 12th body, theres nothing left. He could cling to life and decay like The Master did but thats not his style. He should be fearful of dying, happy of dying in a sense too...An arc like that with a prophecy of death, i.e. 'you are on the final chapter now Doctor, the song ended long ago but you are now drawing toward the final pages...' intersperse the season with odd prophetic comments like they do these days and it all boils down toward the Doc realising the end is indeed nigh...However, BBC being who they are would then have to come up with an extremely clever method of how the Doc does survive his 12 death, and indeed receives a fresh life cycle with 12 new regenerations to come....It would be easy to resurrect The Timelords or have him somehow transported to Gallifrey and perhaps those would be essential to any plotline doing so, but its the how its done that matters so the audience, prepared for the final end of The Doc will suddenly be surprised to see him and the show go on for another 50 years....
In my ultimate finale, yes, The Master would be there, John Simm would play him one final time, the Doc would be scooped out of time by The Timelords during their early days as being Timelords before their non - intervention policy had become law, Rassilon would be behind it all, having travelled forward and seen the outcome of the war, trying to change it....apparently.... the Daleks would feature and yes, The Doc would regenerate. It would be the ultimate reason behind the Last Time War....But more importantly, we would get to see a young Davros....and how he rose to power...
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Jun 6, 2011 9:04:25 GMT
Also in this same thread - have soem detail on who that female time lord was that was hanging around with Tom, the one who regenerated a few times just to get a new look.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 6, 2011 9:37:31 GMT
Re: Overall series big bad
come to think of it we've had an episode that went into lost time lords and an isolated universe already...... which ended a little ambiguously as to wether the controlling intelligence in that universe escaped
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Post by blueshift on Jun 6, 2011 10:53:08 GMT
....But more importantly, we would get to see a young Davros....and how he rose to power... You are Phillip Segal and I claim my five pounds!! |
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Jun 6, 2011 11:15:33 GMT
Also - 6.7 was really the first time River seemed to know who Rory is- before she just seemed to know him has the roman when this is her in the future.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 6, 2011 11:30:02 GMT
Saturday was the first time she'd ever met him in her time line. She has a little more composure in the future. Imagine what you'd be like meeting a parent for the first time you can remember.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 6, 2011 11:31:47 GMT
Re: Overall series big bad come to think of it we've had an episode that went into lost time lords and an isolated universe already...... which ended a little ambiguously as to wether the controlling intelligence in that universe escaped Ah! So I think we can probably now explain a certain piece of big name casting in a relatively minor role! This is great, the more I pick at this, the more stuff starts to make sense. |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jun 6, 2011 11:38:28 GMT
I take it you think that we will see Michael Sheen back then as Omega later on?
Andy
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 6, 2011 11:56:41 GMT
Yes. And that was Omega in the Doctor's Wife using the Tardis to escape the dimension he's trapped in.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jun 6, 2011 12:08:45 GMT
That makes sense to me, plus the idea of Omega never having given up on his scheme and trying all the time is quite chilling.
Andy
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primenova
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Post by primenova on Jun 6, 2011 14:25:15 GMT
Just read something about 6.1 you need to rewatch it ...
up to the point of the Doctor's death - but look in the background at all times
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Post by blueshift on Jun 6, 2011 14:40:52 GMT
Just read something about 6.1 you need to rewatch it ... up to the point of the Doctor's death - but look in the background at all times Tell me tell me I'm at work |
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Post by sf1378 on Jun 6, 2011 15:56:19 GMT
Also in this same thread - have soem detail on who that female time lord was that was hanging around with Tom, the one who regenerated a few times just to get a new look. ROMANA. Whats she got to do with this?  Also, 'the BIG BAD' I doubt is 'House'....If it was, there'd be something else hinted at in The Doctors Wife... If Michael Sheen was Omega, and If 'House' was Omega it would have been alluded to in that episode in some manner or another. You can't write about Omega, even under another name without alluding to his madness and egotistical nature...In the Three Doctors Pertwee said: 'All my life I've known you as a hero....' or something like that. To which Omega retorts: 'A HERO?! I SHOULD HAVE BEEN A GOD!!!' If House was Omega, and given Omega's battled 3 incarnations of the Doctor once and again during the life of The Fifth Doctor in Arc of Infinity he wouldn't be able to resist goading The Doctor, and even perhaps hinting at what House truly was...And I expect both Idris and The Doctor would somehow sense the presence of another TimeLord entity anti matter or not....So I discount your theory....If I'm proven wrong I'm wrong but House isn't Omega.... Also, why am I Segal then??? Now, heres another thought If the Timelords could resurrect both Rassilon and The Master, especially in the case of the latter, when he'd been absorbed by the heart of the Tardis, which is now seen as melons given the inclusions of the 8th Doctors likeness in 'The Journal of Impossible Things' and the interviews with the surviving actors who've played The Master in Confidential, INCLUDING Eric Roberts then why the hell does Omega still have to be trapped in an anti matter universe as a being of pure will? He finally got to Earth in a duplicate of The Fifth Doctors body and died on Earth. How about The TimeLords resurrecting him secretly? They may have done during The Last Great Time War, they did madly resurrect The Master probably for his ruthlessness in battle, same goes with Rassilon as a means to an end, political and as a figurehead - what better than raising from the so called dead the founder of their society to lead them during a never ending war and hopefully to victory? Omega was truly the FIRST TimeLord, he gave their people the power at the cost of his own life in a sense which Rassilon according to the old series knew the risks of but let him detonate a star or whatever it was thus sucking him into an anti matter world but Rassilon had stated to his people that Omega had died....maybe he even knew Omega had survived but kept quiet to become First Lord High President. The old series backstories state there was a didactic to Rassilons character: that of wise and just ruler but also a rumoured dark side, he created the Death Zone on Gallifrey, he allowed Omega to sacrifice his life and sanity to harness the power to become Lords of Time and he was selfish enough to allow those that played 'The GAME OF RASSILON as seen in the 5 Doctors to become immortal at a cost - entombed alive on his tomb...Thats why the Rassilon we see in The End of Time is as he is....he wasn't a good person essentially...So, Omega could also have been ressurected by his people, put in stasis...He doesn't need to come from an anti matter universe to return, like The Master and Rassilon he may be hidden, somewhere but he could be around already, in our universe. |
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Post by blueshift on Jun 6, 2011 15:59:02 GMT
Spoiler tag broke, but that's such a crack fan theory I don't think it deserves a spoiler tag. Of course House wasn't Omega! You'd have think he'd have gone 'bleedin' hell it's the Doctor!' when the Doctor turned up if he had!
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Post by sf1378 on Jun 6, 2011 16:15:50 GMT
I edited it. I only placed it in spoliers as I've noticed when I mention something Phil seems to re-edit it into a spoiler....
Whys it 'crack'? As in cack? Or cracking good? I didn't mention it, it was Phil who brought it up first so I simply discounted it via the means of my anally retentive Whovian K-nowledge Sa!!!!!!
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Post by sf1378 on Jun 6, 2011 16:45:50 GMT
Just read something about 6.1 you need to rewatch it ... up to the point of the Doctor's death - but look in the background at all times I know what your on about.... ;D Took some irritating searching on the net but I know. I've also seen it in an official publicity shot. If its not Omega, it may have been The Silence in the background, however, if it is Omega, then thats a cool conceited easter egg style clue placed within the series arc... |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 6, 2011 17:37:56 GMT
crack as in crack pot.
Can we have a link to the publicity shot?
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Post by blueshift on Jun 6, 2011 18:04:31 GMT
Also, why am I Segal then??? Your post put me in mind of the Spider Dalek tv movie script where the Doctor meets a younger Davros, who is uh half robot spider or something oh god. |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Jun 6, 2011 18:18:32 GMT
For all the spoilerly related discussion to be had.
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Post by sf1378 on Jun 6, 2011 18:46:15 GMT
crack as in crack pot. Can we have a link to the publicity shot? Given some of the crack pot codswollop coming out of some of you lot I find that rather pot kettle black. As for the Segal comment ERMMMMM NO. You may think I'd conceive some half backed dog poo about spider daleks and such but no I did not. Davros was obviously a humanoid Kaled walking about on two legs, MY idea was based around his early life in the Kaled Military much like The I, DAVROS trilogy, his burgeoning curiousity in science as opposed to being in the military and his Mothers influence on his scientific ideals would lead to his secret project, genetic augmentation and melding it with a mobile battle unit (I think its obvious what this is). Then there was the idea I had that the war between the Kaleds and Thals began from The Kaleds being the majority ethinic race but socially stationed as the subservient worker class i.e. blue collar workers and the military whilst the minority Thals where the White Collar ruling elite like the White Colonials who ruled former Rhodesia. Young Davros as a soldier becomes a figurehead to the Kaleds, like a young Hitler, rising up through the ranks, fighting in the Thals Wars, i.e. they were the Political ruling class at the time before the war with a mighty empire, one that spanned only the known solar system around their planet (fitting in with the idea that by the time of Genesis of The Daleks they are surprised by seeing non Skaro indiginous lifeforms - The Doctor, Sarah Jane and Harry on their planet); he would be sickened that Kaleds did the dirty work, fought and died in wars Thals sent them into but were still the plebian classes...He would believe in racial purity of the Kaled race. He'd be a poster boy for his people, vain, handsome, virile, he'd have a wife, older than him, a scientist too. A pivotal plot point would be that they had suffered the losses of children via cotdeath twice and a miscarriage, his wife would be pregnant and all hope rests on her givin birth. She would see his ambitions are warping his viewpoint from the betterment of his ethnic class into something far more sinister....Davros' ideals would eventually lead to the start of the war of attrition that eventually decimates their planet from a lush, verdant, tropical planet into the barren irradiated wasteland it is seen as by the time of Genesis of The Daleks....Davros of course during the course of my idea would be mamed in an assassination attempt that would sadly kill his wife and the baby she was carrying, the injuries suffered on him by an advanced bomb device would degenerate his dna, of which would ultimately mutate him into the crippled, deformed maniac, it would be painful and slow-he would go into seclusion (this would be the Bunker from Genesis of The Daleks, forshadowing events from that story, there he would realise his warped dreams, you'd see his gradual mutation: the loss of sight, the loss of hair over time, the loss of use in his legs - first a walking stick would be used, the loss of motion in his hand, the eventual creation of his wheelchair, the loss of his sight, his voice becoming electronically augmented etc....then embittered by his disfiguring injuries would become resolute in molding the Kaled people into his likeness - THE DALEK..... Yeah, Philip segal thought all that up NOT...but then again its a load of old tripe I came up with ha ha! |
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