Politics

[Grand Moff Muffin]

The problem any government has in this situation is that they need to send out a single message to the population, when that population is non-homogeneous and will take the message differently depending on their outlook / attitude to risk. If the government message is strong enough to influence the behaviour of the most reckless segment of the population, it will be so strong that it causes mental health issues for those already prone to caution/anxiety. Whatever the message, the population won't respond uniformly, and it will either be too strong for the well-being of some or too weak to ensure the compliance of others.

The other problem is the message has to be simple, when the real world isn't simple. The government (rightly or wrongly, I can't say) fears to tell the people to exercise their own common sense on a case-by-case basis.

Martin

[Pinwig]

This isn't about how strong or weak the message is though, this is about how clear it is to understand.

[Fortmax2020]

This change in message is purely so the government can appear to have accomplished something when they haven't. Test figures not being met, infection rates not dropping, *still* PPE shortages, care home crisis escalating all of which can be traced back to lack of government mistakes.

We are having enough trouble with lockdown breakers around here let alone with Johnson suggesting anything that might encourage them further. He is walking himself into a second peak because people have got bored after only a few weeks.

As ever with this government it is just about appearances and not substance. They're an absolute joke.

[Pinwig]

Lockdown breaking has been on my mind this weekend. The guy next door to me clearly doesn't care. Yesterday three of his mates were over helping him repair a quad bike while his girlfriend cut their hair in the garden, and today what looked like his parents were round for a barbecue. I've never seen them visit him before. After marveling at his new car, they all went off for a drive in it.

[Philip Ayres]

There's a fair bit of it around here, but I do live on a council estate

[Fortmax2020]

May 10, 2020 16:09:26 GMT Pinwig said:

Lockdown breaking has been on my mind this weekend. The guy next door to me clearly doesn't care. Yesterday three of his mates were over helping him repair a quad bike while his girlfriend cut their hair in the garden, and today what looked like his parents were round for a barbecue. I've never seen them visit him before. After marveling at his new car, they all went off for a drive in it.

Did you report any of this?

We had people drinking in the alleyway (with their kids) who seemed to be connected to the mysteriously opened pet store nearby (used to be a mysteriously late opening barber until a few months ago, still run by same guy). Had enough when they started using our front wall to booze off and sit on. Told them to go and put the police on them.

Guy in flat on other side of alleyway has gone out all day again after two days of lying low and stashing his car out of sight after multiple late night escapades a few nights ago.

[Fortmax2020]

Opposite Flat guy has not been seen for a while. He took to trying to hide his car off road after he was driving it for a few days with a cracked windscreen. There has been a media report of a drug dealer being arrested after trying to flee police and crashing his car.. which looks quite similar...

Still, I guess he can now say it is a childcare issue and get off Scot free.

[The Doctor]

At least now I have learned that the next time I need to get my eyes tested, I shall drive to the nearest castle.

-Ralph

[Fortmax2020]

Make it a 'short' trip!

[The Doctor]

Of course. Only a 60 miles round trip. I need to drive that far to make sure my eyes are safe enough to drive with.

-Ralph

[The Doctor]

I see that Saturday and Sunday will no longer feature COVID-19 updates for the public due to "lower viewing figures". Um, the Government is aware it isn't a TV show? And that in the space year 2020 the information from the updates can be also be disseminated by a 'worldwide web' or 'information superhighway'?

One might think this is a way to craft a narrative that everything is fine now and we don't have the 2nd highest fatality figure in the world?

Of course not. That would just be silly.

-Ralph

[Fortmax2020]

I am planning buying supplies to endure a near inevitable second peak. First peak has eaten into our Brexit stockpile already.

[The Doctor]

I put political opinions to one side at the start of this and trusted the Government and there seemed to a be sense they knew what they were doing, but the Cummings affair has completely destroyed my trust. I don't believe a word they say anymore.

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

Even before Cummings the relaxing of Lockdown rules didn't exactly look inspired by scientific advice but now.....

The recent spikes are suggesting the VE Day stuff was a bad idea .... As if that wasn't obvious!

As someone who is shielding I won't be rushing out the front door.

[The Doctor]

We have not changed what we are doing here as the lockdown relaxation appears idiotic at this time. Work has taken the new lockdown rules as a sign to open up within the next few weeks, which we judge to be a risk to our health. I expect to be on SSP due to impact of this stress on my mental wellbeing or unemployed in the very near future. I am now very fearful of the future.

-Ralph

[Fortmax2020]

I had no confidence in them from the start given they failed to lock down the UK in sufficient time despite seeing what was happening elsewhere in the workd Nothing since has convinced me they are doing anything other than acting from political decision making and the scientific advice is only there to be cherry picked from what suits them.

[Bogatan]

I didn't agree with them early on either, but was willing to give some benefit of doubt once lockdown started. Since then its been one screw or lie after another.

Though I had to keep working, my job largely allowed me to keep to my myself so I always felt it was relatively low risk. Thankfully what the tories are doing now doesnt change that for me. But does for family and friends which is a constant worry.

My biggest choice will be whether to keep my cineworld card or not when they start charging me for it again. Otherwise I have little to no desire to leave the house for anything but work for the forseeable.

[The Doctor]

After months of being told face coverings were not required, our Masters have now decreed we must wear them on public transport from June 15th or be fined. Jumped straight on the web and ordered 100 because they will be sold out by midnight, I expect, as people panic. One of the reasons I gave for not wishing to return to work is that I do not feel safe using crowded public transport. Now, the Government has effectively two-fingered saluted the country: 'get on the buses etc and die but GOT TO WORK' is the message. I expect to be ordered back now. Thanks, Westminister. Why the desperation to get people back on public transport when their own alert level is still at 4?

-RALPH

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Not a fan of face coverings except for people who have a cough/sneeze or who want to be talking up close to other people. Generally, as long as your mouth is shut I think that has pretty much the same effect in terms of not spreading droplets. And on the downside, they hamper facial expressions such as smiles, and make things difficult for people with impaired hearing who rely on seeing people's lips move. Hope they don't make them compulsory in Wales and leave it for people to judge. But in case they do, and for when I eventually start getting trains into England again, I've asked my eight-year-old niece to make me one for my birthday.

Martin

[Fortmax2020]

Jun 4, 2020 17:06:05 GMT The Doctor said:

After months of being told face coverings were not required, our Masters have now decreed we must wear them on public transport from June 15th or be fined. Jumped straight on the web and ordered 100 because they will be sold out by midnight, I expect, as people panic. One of the reasons I gave for not wishing to return to work is that I do not feel safe using crowded public transport. Now, the Government has effectively two-fingered saluted the country: 'get on the buses etc and die but GOT TO WORK' is the message. I expect to be ordered back now. Thanks, Westminister. Why the desperation to get people back on public transport when their own alert level is still at 4?

-RALPH

Because they want to be seen to be making some progress back to normality because they can use it to continue distracting from their relentless failures in handling this crisis. Oh and their business mates want their workers back.

Not a fan of face masks outside a clinical environment. The evidence for their usage elsewhere is dubious to say the least and this new order will result in a rush of stockpiling when medical and other key workers need them more.

And if you think that the evidence requires them to be used then why wait until June 15th? Why not say from now on? More political posturing.

Maddening that as other European countries are able to justify loosening their lockdowns we aren't in a position to do so ourselves but apparently we are going to anyway.

[Philip Ayres]

I've seen it suggested that while wearing a Facemask by itself will offer limited protection to yourself it will have a larger effect in stopping you from transmitting the disease further if you are unfortunate to have it are are pre symptom or asymptomatic.

The reasoning behind a later date is, I imagine, two fold. The first being it would be impossible for everyone to obtain masks before tomorrow AM, the second being they are almost certainly planning some other loosening of restrictions before then and this is a preemptive measure.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Jun 4, 2020 19:53:38 GMT Philip Ayres said:

I've seen it suggested that while wearing a Facemask by itself will offer limited protection to yourself it will have a larger effect in stopping you from transmitting the disease further if you are unfortunate to have it are are pre symptom or asymptomatic.

Oh yes, the non-clinical ones are to protect others rather than oneself, but their effectiveness in that is somewhat negated by some people who wear them being less cautious when it comes to keeping the proper distance because they're wearing the mask, opening their mouth more because they're wearing the mask, and touching their face more because of the mask. I still maintain that you're almost certainly not going to spread the virus to someone near you as long as your mouth is shut. And that way you can give people a friendly smile.

Martin

[Pinwig]

Jun 4, 2020 19:53:38 GMT Philip Ayres said:

The reasoning behind a later date is, I imagine, two fold. The first being it would be impossible for everyone to obtain masks before tomorrow AM, the second being they are almost certainly planning some other loosening of restrictions before then and this is a preemptive measure.

The plan schools have been advised to use to reopen for R/1/6 won't work if they're still expecting the other years back in from the start of July. To do that social distancing will have to be relaxed completely in schools. Given the government have also now said pubs and restaurants from July too, which they said would be the last step in the journey back to normal, it seems they're trying to force their way down to 2 on their panic-o-meter in the next four weeks.

As we're finding, the sad reality is that social distancing is collapsing now anyway. I did the big shop after school tonight; the atmosphere is completely different now to even a few weeks ago. No patience, no courtesy. Almost had people physically pushing past me this evening, certainly reaching across me.

[The Doctor]

I know full well that masks are no use but as work want me back at the end of the month due to the changes with the job retention scheme I had no choice but to buy some. I have to use public transport to get to work. If I don't wear a mask after the 15th I will be fined or denied carriage.

I feel forced into this by the Government and am extremely angry about it. I also feel the lockdown changes are putting me in an impossible position of having to go back to work before the R rate has dropped enough.

There will be a rush on masks now. I bought some approx ten mins after the announcement and I couldn't get a pile arriving any earlier than the 13th.

-Ralph

[Bogatan]

If you are in Asda check near the front for masks they sometimes have 2 packs of reuseable face masks for £2.50. Over the long term a couple of packs of those will probably be cheaper and avoid the risk of supplies running out.

[The Doctor]

Never been able to find any in my local store, alas.

My 100 face masks from China arrived this morning. I am now ready for any further Government idiocy.

-Ralph

[Fortmax2020]

Ah, so you are ready to be going on holiday and getting upset about a protest rather than the injustice of the larger issue causing that protest?

[The Doctor]

All holiday and trip plans by me have been cancelled this Summer. It still isn't legal to travel for large distances for non-essential reasons anyway unless someone is called Dominic Cummings. Or the Housing Minister who got off with it too.

-Ralph

[Fortmax2020]

Don't be ridiculous - read the papers! Holidays are coming!

[The Doctor]

But it's too early for the Coca-Cola truck.

-Ralph