Names

[Deleted]

Mar 13, 2014 21:53:12 GMT Toph said:

Mar 13, 2014 21:47:11 GMT Shockprowl said:

Do Americans have the world 'slag'? CJ?

For us, much like spaz or spastic, slag is a completely 100% inoffensive word. We only use it in it's dictionary meaning. I'd even hazard to guess a good chunk of americans don't even know the word at all.
It came as a complete surprise to most of us as to how offensive those words are to you guys.

Personally, I find 'Thrustinator' more offensive...

[Philip Ayres]

Mar 12, 2014 18:23:43 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

The names of Transformers strike me as being on a wide spectrum in terms of creativity, as if they were thought up either by lots of different people or one person (Bob?) who had moments of inspiration and moments of not really caring a jot.

Jim Shooter wrote the initial TF treatment and came up with the basic concepts of Autobot, Decepticon, the war and the name Optimus Prime iirc. Google Jim Shooter Transformers for details

Denny O'Neill had a go at it but Shooter didn't like what he'd done.

Iirc Bob ended up creating most of the pre 1990 names and tech specs.

I've seen this talked about in the last week and can't remember where!

[Philip Ayres]

Denny is responsible for Optimus Prime

goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/10/12/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-72/

[Pinwig]

Mar 13, 2014 21:48:04 GMT Toph said:

Why should that bother you, honestly? It's more realistic to me that they're twins because they DON'T look alike. Identical twins make zero sense for cybertronians, since they can change how they look at will. And it irritates the hell out of me every time I see people trying to shoehorn all repainted characters into being brothers, simply because they use the same base toy.

Also, there are no canon siblings that I can think of, who look alike.
Sideswipe/Sunstreaker
Sideburn/Prowl/X-Brawn
Fire Convoy/God Magnus
Galvatron/Megastorm

To cybertronians, what being a twin means is like a human egg, a spark splits into two when it's being formed. And since there is no definitive explanation of how a spark and a body comes together, then there's no reason to assume they should be identical. And even if they were, there's no reason for them to stay identical.

That is an interesting idea, and more creative than the way I was thinking. I was looking at it more basically - that whoever wrote the tech specs made them twins based on their car modes, which is wrong because when they were created neither would have had that car mode. I was thinking from what knowns there were circa 1984. The robots are totally different, so on those grounds any Transformers could be twins if you wanted them to be, there's no reason why these two should be. That was all, the conversation was shifting to where there were likely slips or errors in the original names/characters.

The metaphysics of appearance changing and spark splitting is a whole different level that goes way beyond the scope of the original tech specs, which is much more interesting to ponder come to think of it. From that perspective I agree, there's no reason why they can't be twins at all. Although if we're going in that direction I would posit that Transformers haven't (as far as I know?) demonstrated any notion of family, which redefines 'brother' to be a term understood in the way a race like Sontarans understand it. That way I would say that a group like the Constructicons would be brothers, because they are from the same 'batch'. I don't know about sparks so much, that came later, but they shared the same expression of energy from the matrix when Shockwave extracted it from Prime's head. If that floods a dormant spark, it must be the spark that defines the individual personality, but if you look at a semen/ovum metaphor then matrix energy/spark seems to fit it. 

Of the original cars it would make more sense to me that Bluestreak and Prowl should be the twins rather than Sideswipe and Sunstreaker as their robot modes suggest they were created at the same time. All that Sideswipe and Sunstreaker share is that their Earth alt modes are sports cars. I do agree though that sharing a toy mould doesn't have to make robots twins. If that was true in all cases it'd be pretty boring and there are more interesting ways to explain it.

For example I like the idea that perhaps Smokescreen resembles Prowl because he modeled himself on a figure he saw as a hero. Smokescreen is a budding tactician, and Prowl is a seasoned strategist. Bit of hero worship spreading into the way he looked, but in a younger sportier style. Kinda suits the character of the Prime era Smokescreen thinking about it.

It's a shame really that more wasn't made of those tech specs in the various fictions, there is a lot there that wasn't really used. Lots of diverse personalities. It was only really the early UK comic stories that really tried to evolve stories from them.

[blueshift]

Mar 13, 2014 21:53:12 GMT Toph said:

Mar 13, 2014 21:47:11 GMT Shockprowl said:

Do Americans have the world 'slag'? CJ?

For us, much like spaz or spastic, slag is a completely 100% inoffensive word. We only use it in it's dictionary meaning. I'd even hazard to guess a good chunk of americans don't even know the word at all.
It came as a complete surprise to most of us as to how offensive those words are to you guys.

Slag's not that offensive per se, in that it does functionally have several meanings, and is more of a 'naughty' offensive words that characters on soaps will use to call each other names.

Spastic is though. Still really shocked over how US fandom reacted with glee/disinterest over that one!

[The Doctor]

Mar 13, 2014 21:53:12 GMT Toph said:

Mar 13, 2014 21:47:11 GMT Shockprowl said:

Do Americans have the world 'slag'? CJ?

For us, much like spaz or spastic, slag is a completely 100% inoffensive word. We only use it in it's dictionary meaning. I'd even hazard to guess a good chunk of americans don't even know the word at all.
It came as a complete surprise to most of us as to how offensive those words are to you guys.

'Slag' is not in the least bit offensive in Scotland. It's generally used in a sentences such as : "Don't slag me off." Or: "He was slagging me off." It's a slang term meaning to mock or make fun of. You'll hear children saying it a lot.

Slag is also a form of molten melted metal as in 'slagheap'.

The only other use of 'slag' that I am aware of is from a comedy strip in the magazine 'Viz' which featured characters called The Fat Slags.

Honestly, the only time I have ever seen 'slag' being mentioned as offensive is because a toy company in another country said so. To me, it is like declaring that the word 'bagel' is now offensive and from now on no bread related products can be called 'bagel.'

-Ralph

[blueshift]

Mar 14, 2014 8:43:45 GMT The Doctor said:

Honestly, the only time I have ever seen 'slag' being mentioned as offensive is because a toy company in another country said so. To me, it is like declaring that the word 'bagel' is now offensive and from now on no bread related products can be called 'bagel.'

-Ralph

There is also the Eastenders use of 'you slaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag' to indicate a woman of loose morals with language appropriate to tea-time family viewing.

Honestly, it baffles me that Hasbro flew into action to clamp down on a fairly innoculous word like that, but didn't seemingly care at all about 'Spastic' until they were actually getting nasty articles written about them in the press over it.

[The Doctor]

The 'Spastic' issue is when I stopped visiting the big TF boards. I also bought a lot less Transformers.

-Ralph

[Shockprowl]

Mar 14, 2014 8:57:22 GMT blueshift said:

Mar 14, 2014 8:43:45 GMT The Doctor said:

Honestly, the only time I have ever seen 'slag' being mentioned as offensive is because a toy company in another country said so. To me, it is like declaring that the word 'bagel' is now offensive and from now on no bread related products can be called 'bagel.'

-Ralph

There is also the Eastenders use of 'you slaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag' to indicate a woman of loose morals with language appropriate to tea-time family viewing.

Honestly, it baffles me that Hasbro flew into action to clamp down on a fairly innoculous word like that, but didn't seemingly care at all about 'Spastic' until they were actually getting nasty articles written about them in the press over it.

Yes I think that is the most odd thing about it. 'Spastic', a word so offensive I can bearly bring myself to type it, gets passed by Hasbro, where 'Slag', a naughty, slightly insulting when used right, word is removed from use! Especially confussing as CJ says, 'Slag' isn't particularly well know across the pond. Madness.

Here, in God's Country, 'Slag' as I say, isn't offensive, it's possibly insulting when used right, but it isn't often used in current speach these days. 'Slut' seems to have taken over.

[blueshift]

Mar 14, 2014 10:34:26 GMT Shockprowl said:

Here, in God's Country, 'Slag' as I say, isn't offensive, it's possibly insulting when used right, but it isn't often used in current speach these days. 'Slut' seems to have taken over.

I've only ever seen it used on tv as the more family-friendly 'slut-replacement' word

[Shockprowl]

Oi, Blue'! You're a Slaaaaaggg!!!


(not really)

[blueshift]

Mar 14, 2014 11:10:06 GMT Shockprowl said:

Oi, Blue'! You're a Slaaaaaggg!!!


(not really)

Get outta mah puuuuuuuuuuub

[Shockprowl]

Mar 14, 2014 13:29:42 GMT blueshift said:

Mar 14, 2014 11:10:06 GMT Shockprowl said:

Oi, Blue'! You're a Slaaaaaggg!!!


(not really)

Get outta mah puuuuuuuuuuub

BEER OUT THE NOSE! AAARGH YOU BARSTARD!

[Toph]

I honestly dont understand how spaz and spastic got to be so horrible for you guys. I actually have to watch my language, because it is a part of my vocabulary. I even see it every morning on Nickelodeon in a commercial bumper for Victorious.
What does it mean, even? Near as I can tell, it's similar to calling a mentally disabled person a retard. which angers me also for having ruined the benign word retarded. You can't even use the word in it's proper context (and i dont mean in reference to the disabled, either) due to the insult thats been generated out of it.
Thats one thing about the controversy, is because of so many people dogpiling or making fun, i never figured out why it's so offensive.
For us, it means someone who's freaking out, or all over the place. The 11th Doctor couldn't be more textbook for our use of spaz.

[Philip Ayres]

In the late 70s a children's program called Blue Peter ran a campaign promoting the plight of a number of individuals with what would now be termed learning difficulties. As a result the then current term, spastic, was picked up by children and entered the playground language as an insult. It grew from there

See:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Deacon#Blue_Peter_and_cultural_impact

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4902432.stm

[Shockprowl]

Spastic is to us like retard is to you, CJ. And indeed retard is to us like retard is to you. 'Spaz' I find slightly less offensive, but still very offensive. Where 'Spastic' is just obscene.

But you're right, CJ, it is remarkable the differences in language usage!

[Toph]

I did not know any of that. And I garner that most americans who have no first hand experience in european culture don't, either.
Thanks, guys.

I'd have to say probably for us, Hasbro is more sensitive about Slag, because it seems to be largely unknown how bad spastic is over there, while being fairly benign to us. Meanwhile, slut and whore are words that are really weighty here. Learning Slag means the same thing somewhere else is an instant red flag.
That's near as I can figure. But spastic is a word they'll avoid now.

[Jim]

Overcharge was an appropriate name for an eHobby exclusive and a great name for a taxi minicon.

I always liked Powerglide, it has a pleasing ring to it and seems appropriate for a plane even though the term is not at all aeronautical in origin as I understand it.

Grotusque is a nice one, too.

-Jim

[Toph]

Oh yeah, a taxi named Overcharge s one of the best things that ever happened.

One thing I wish would happen is a classics astrotrain redeco that recycles the name Midnight Express. Make the new character a (former) actor, and you cant get a cooler set up.

Always thought Bumblebee was a really cute name for a little yellow Beetle. Kinda makes no sense anymore, though.
Wait, forget kinda. Change that to "absolutely no," thanks.

[Pinwig]

I've always thought Wreck-Gar was a weird name, but given what's been said here, is that derived from wreck garbage then?

[blueshift]

Mar 15, 2014 22:55:50 GMT Pinwig said:

I've always thought Wreck-Gar was a weird name, but given what's been said here, is that derived from wreck garbage then?

I always thought it was uh... Wrecker maybe? I dunno. It's really odd in that it seems it should be a pun name, but no-one has ever been able to work it out

[Toph]

Wreck-Gar being derived from a combination of Wreckage and Garbage i think hits it in one. I never looked or thought about that, and I bet that's it.

[Pinwig]

I would say you're absolutely right. I was wondering if it was to do with ruining (wrecking) garbage, as in cannibalizing parts to fix Transformers, but wreckage/garbage is simpler and fits perfectly.

[The Doctor]

I had never realised that about Wreck-Gar's name. Makes sense. I had never thought of it as any more than a nonsense space creature name.

-Ralph