The Flash

[legios]

Oct 29, 2017 20:42:24 GMT Toph said:

I can't figure out if the current villain is

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Metron

or

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The Monitor

Edit: According to IMDB, he's

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The Thinker

Makes sense - he is an existing member of The Flash's rogues gallery, and Flash has been the show which has tended to stick to the character's existing villains, whilst Supergirl and Arrow run all over the shop pinching other people's rogues gallery. (Although with Arrow they do have at least the excuse that, well, he was basically Batman anyway to begin with. So why shouldn't he mooch the Bat's villains. :-) )

Karl

[Toph]

Well, Green Arrow really doesn't have much of a rogues gallery beyond Merlyn. He has a few, but none that are really memorable or well known.

Batman, Flash, and Spiderman are the three most iconic and best known rogue galleries there are.

[Andy Turnbull]

I wouldn't put Flash up there while he's got a solid core of villains I would put him top of the midcard. Batman and then Spider-Man are in a class of their own for villains.

Andy

[Toph]

His aren't as well known, no. But his are as strongly associated with him as theirs are for them.
In fact, his are so strongly associated with him that they gave the name to the trope: the rogues gallery.

And I'd also say the only reason Spiderman's are better known, are because of the movies.

[Andy Turnbull]

The Flash's usual small cotery of recurring villains are known as the Rogues. Rogues Gallery has been used to discuss every hero's assembled foes for years. Spider-Man also has a deeper pool of villains to play with, same as Batman. That's why I would always put them above any other superhero.

Think you also have to say the repeated cartoons and toylines have helped with the fame of Spider-Man's villains.

Andy

[Toph]

The people who generally follow the cartoons and toys are a bit more aware in general, than the general public who could name them from Batman, or have been made aware through the movies.

I mean, I'd put Rhino and Mysterio on par with Captain Cold, Weather Wizard, and Trickster. And until the movies, I'd have said some flash villains are better known than Vulture, Electro, or the Lizard.

[legios]

Batman though, simply stands above all of these really. Joker ("he-he-he-he-he"), Catwoman ("Prrrr"), Penguin ("Wah-Wah-wah-wah!", The Riddler ("he-he-he-hah-hah-he-he-hah!") all have a noteriety in normal company that far outstrips most other superheroes villains.

Awareness of Spiderman villains is going to vary depending on ones age to a degree - for example in my circles people will likely recognise Mysterio fairly easily, because he and his fishbowl helmet was in the end credits of the cartoon so many of us saw when we were seven or eight. Even if they don't know who he is, then they will likely go "oh yeah, that guy". Wait a few years and folk like Rhino and the Kingpin (yes, yes, I know) are likely to be vaguely familiar to people because they were major players in a cartoon series when folk were growing up. Exposure to the general populace that folk like Flash simply haven't benefited from up until now.

(Also, Rogues Gallery I'm fairly sure is a term that long predates The Flash. If nothing else I'm fairly sure Dick Tracy probably beat him to it. Perhaps not so much the pulp heroes - folk like The Shadow and The Phantom tended to have fewer recurring foes. There may be .45 reasons for that of course. :-) )

Karl

[Toph]

Elseworlds began tonight, and features the return of John Wesley Shipp's 90s Flash (now designated Earth-90) as the major hero.
It's also had a huge nod to WB's Smallville.

Minor spoiler (it's the main feature they been promoting for weeks, but only putting it behind spoilers out of courtesy:

SPOILER: Click to show

Everyone's immediate response to Barry and Oliver switching bodies being "Barry, what did you do?" is pure gold.
It's really nice getting to see Stephen Amell cut loose a bit and have some fun.
And toilet callout joke is about the best thing ever.

[Bogatan]

We are a few days or a week behind here. Flash will be on this Thursday. Really bee nenjoying the WB shows this season. I even started watching Legends again which may now be the best of the bunch. Which was a pretty big shock.

[Toph]

Last and this season of Legends has been absolutely bonkers levels of stellar. Black Lightning is also amazing.
I think Arrow is under a new showrunner, and it too feels like it's got some new life to it.

I really like Nora West-Allen. She's a really sweet character, but not annoyingly so. Also when you see her next to Iris, she's a really good casting as a daughter for Candace Patten.
While i don't hate it, Supergirl for me has never been as good as that first season was. Though this season is also an improvement.

But I agree, all five shows are bringing their A Game this season.

[Pinwig]

Right, up to speed with Supergirl. Which of the series are involved in the crossover this time? Did I read Legends isn't part of it?

[Toph]

It begins with Flash, moves to Arrow, and ends with Supergirl.
Legends and Black Lightning are not part of it, this year. I think that might be a benefit, too. Adding the Legends i think might bloat this story. And I kinda feel like the Crisis on Earth X crossover was a bit bloated.

But I kinda wish a little that there was more to it because atm, it feels like the final episode may be a bit rushed. Flash and Arrow spent a lot of time on exposition, jokes, and one really cool action scene that atm doesn't seem to have much to do with the actual story, but is still a really fun moment.

I get why BL isn't part of this (or the last) crossover. He shouldn't be, if it disrupts the flow and narrative of his own story. Because his is a lot tighter and far less episodic than the other four shows. But... if it can happen in a way that does not negatively inpact his show, then he absolutely should be part of the crossovers. No reason he and Thunder should miss out on the fun.

All in all, two episodes down in Elseworlds, and this crossover has been really FUN. It feels like when comics would have a nice fluffy crossover, every character gets to do some goofy things in combinations we're not used to, and even when the fate of the world is at stake, it not really that serious and gloomy. And when it's over, everyone goes back to their own thing.
The last crossover events all felt too serious and grandiose, like current megacrossover events.
But like has been said up thread, all the shows feel like they have new life in them, and this definitely follows that lead.

[Pinwig]

Right, ta.

Black Lightning being part of it would be weird over here because that's on Netflix and all the other shows are on Sky.

[Toph]

Part 3 wasn't as rushed as I feared.
All in all, great balance in all three parts.

[Toph]

SPOILER: Click to show

Okay... like I know that the whole goal of this was basically to introduce Batwoman to the Arrowverse, but IMO? Superman absolutely stole the whole thing.
He is just so charming, and so well cast, and so absolutely on point for the character, that it's exciting anytime he shows up. In exactly the way that Henry Cavill isn't.
I want to see more of him, but I don't want him overshining Supergirl in her own show, and at the same time I don't feel like he would bring anything different than her, if he was given his own show.

Maybe an occasional streaming service miniseries?
Like... a six or eight episode miniseries that has almost the same budget as a full season, so they can do some really epic stuff befitting Superman?

[Pinwig]

That was really good! Enjoyed that crossover more than the ones before.

[Toph]

I know, right? They found the right balance!
LoT's acknowledgement of it was priceless, too.

[Bogatan]

Yup, best of the crossovers so far. Last years felt like it was making the same missteps as Ultron made. This year had the neccesary scale to justify the crossover but kept it on a personal level.

Not 100% sold on Batgirl, but suspect thats just because I dont follow DC and have never come across this version of the character. The overall setup for the new show works though.

Rather than have Batman in Batgirl I think I'd rather see him show up in Supergirl. Would be a lot of fun.

Agree on Superman, hes great, but there is no place for his own ongoing show. Always happy when he appears though.

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Spoiler
The lack of Earth 90 Flash was disappointing. Hoping he returns properly in The Flash.

And now we really need Adventures of Superman and Smallville appearances. And I would love to see an appearance of the 60s Batman universe. Have Burt Ward appear as an elderly Dick Grayson mentoring a new Batman, Robin, Nightwing Batgirl or whoever. Keep it absolutely 100% as camp as the original.

[Toph]

So much of Gotham, Bruce, and a lot of that set up screamed the Nolan trilogy, that I wonder if they're canonically setting those films in the arrowverse, or if they're using it as sort of a recognizable (things are sinilar because that was so recognizable) starting point?

Or if it was all just an homage, like the smallville opening for Supergirl's earth?

[Pinwig]

That really threw me. Given the crossovery nature of the story, when the Smallville theme kicked in I was expecting some connection. I spent the next five minutes looking at the Lois thinking, surely that isn't the one that was in Smallville? I couldn't work out what was going on.

[legios]

Dec 19, 2018 17:46:51 GMT Bogatan said:

Not 100% sold on Batgirl, but suspect thats just because I dont follow DC and have never come across this version of the character. The overall setup for the new show works though.

Rather than have Batman in Batgirl I think I'd rather see him show up in Supergirl. Would be a lot of fun.

Agree on Superman, hes great, but there is no place for his own ongoing show.

Batwoman, rather than Batgirl - they are separate characters. In fact, for at least the last decade there have been several successive Batgirl's and a Batwoman active simultaneously in DC stuff.

The Bat-Family is large, it contains multitudes. :-)

Karl

[Pinwig]

I liked the wig. That beats Clark's glasses into a cocked hat.

[Stomski]

Confused in Ep.II.

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}Why would normal Barry who is now Green Lantern's biggest fear be normal Oliver's fear? If he still has his original brain, surely he'd have been fighting Reverse Flash?

Dec 19, 2018 17:46:51 GMT Bogatan said:

Not 100% sold on Batgirl, but suspect thats just because I dont follow DC and have never come across this version of the character. The overall setup for the new show works though.

Character felt forced and it felt like they were trying to define her through things like her tattoos rather than her behaviour, but setup was ok.

Dec 19, 2018 17:46:51 GMT Bogatan said:

Rather than have Batman in Batgirl I think I'd rather see him show up in Supergirl. Would be a lot of fun.

Supergirl said that Superman and Batman knew each other. This means there's a Batman on Earth-38 as I don't think it's been mentioned that Superman has been to Earth-1 prior to the Elseworlds crossover.

Dec 19, 2018 17:46:51 GMT Bogatan said:

And I would love to see an appearance of the 60s Batman universe. Have Burt Ward appear as an elderly Dick Grayson mentoring a new Batman, Robin, Nightwing Batgirl or whoever. Keep it absolutely 100% as camp as the original.

Arrowverse Earth-1 is already 60s Batman - explained by the Shakespeare bust in Bruce Wayne's office.

Dec 19, 2018 20:41:13 GMT Pinwig said:

I spent the next five minutes looking at the Lois thinking, surely that isn't the one that was in Smallville? I couldn't work out what was going on.

Nah - she already showed up in Supergirl as Alura Zor-El.

[Jim]

Gosh, the DC TV series universes sound as over-complex as the comics occasionally get. How soon before we have a TV COIE?

[Bogatan]

This year I believe

[Toph]

Jan 24, 2019 8:10:11 GMT Jim said:

Gosh, the DC TV series universes sound as over-complex as the comics occasionally get. How soon before we have a TV COIE?

They're really not.

Only Flash really deals with reality hopping, and that's not a major feature of that show. They only tend to go all out on the big geeky crossovers, for fun.
But for the most part, everyone stays in their corner.
• Flash, Arrow, Constantine, and Legends of Tomorrow are Earth-1.
• Supergirl is in her own reality that's part of it (collectively called "the arrowverse"), because in the US, she started on a separate network.
• Black Lightning may or may not be part of "the arrowverse." It has yet to be decided. It is unknown if it would be Supergirl's earth, or it's own.
• Gotham and Lucifer are not part of "the arrowverse"

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I don't follow Flash but have the crossover arcs (Invasion and Crisis) on DVD and for completeness I cobbled together the musical crossover episode 'Duet' from YouTube clips. It's... well, I give them points for enthusiasm.

Martin

[Toph]

The musical episode was... not good. Of course, I'm biased against musicals to start with, but there are dozens of ways it could have been so much better and more fullfilling.

Scrubs used a woman with a brain anurysm.
Batman: TBatB used the Music Meister to put everyone under a spell.
Buffy had a demon that made everyone sing (even going so far as to have random musical numbers happening to other people in the background)

The Flash having it all happen in someone's head just felt creatively uninspired.