Beast Wars

[Bogatan]

Jul 19, 2021 20:44:45 GMT Pinwig said:

So many ideas in those few pages that suggest a totally different story to the cartoon.

I know I keep going on about this but between the comic and the McDonalds BW development documents you really can get a good sense of where they planned to go as a direct g1/g2 continuation.

The fiction was clearly going the acknowledge the multiple forms the major characters had been taking on over the last couple of years. And explains why Prime(al) and Megatron each got two different beast mode toys early on.

[Toph]

I very much prefer the fiction we got (in part because it's really good, but also because it's one of the few major branch continuities that does not just endlessly rehash the 84-86 characters), but expanding on this would have been a fantastic Transformers: Evolutions miniseries.

For those who don't remember, Evolutions was going to be IDW TF's "Elseworlds." They gave us Hearts of Steel, then abandoned it.
(Then ruined HoS in that awful zombie mega crossover)

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Jul 20, 2021 1:20:42 GMT Toph said:

I very much prefer the fiction we got (in part because it's really good, but also because it's one of the few major branch continuities that does not just endlessly rehash the 84-86 characters)

I feel the BW cartoon would work much better as part of the existing TF saga - i.e. as a spin-off, not a reboot - if they didn't have recycled G1 names. Having the leaders of the two ships crashing on Earth just happen to be called Optimus and Megatron was just too distracting. I would re-dub the entire series and get rid of all the G1-derived names except when they were actually attached to G1 characters.

Of course, I imagine calling them Optimus and Megatron increased toy sales.

Martin

[Toph]

I have no problems at all with different characters having the same name.
Ben Grimm, Ben Parker
Martha Kent, Martha Wayne
Scott Lang, Scott Summers
People share the same names all the time.
So there being a fire engine autobot in 1984, and a predacon fire ant however many centuries later both being named Inferno is non-issue to me.
I find it more unrealistic that in a race that has a population of at least millions, that there would only be one Prowl, and that name is retired for all eternity.

And also, people are named after historical figures all the time, too. I'd not be surprised at all if Optimus became a really popular name for new protoforms, after the great war ended.

There's at least four George Bushes in that family.

[Llama God]

Jul 19, 2021 20:44:45 GMT Pinwig said:

So many ideas in those few pages that suggest a totally different story to the cartoon.

If only they'd kept the mini-comics going at the same time the show was airing. It would've been like Masters of the Universe, only different...

[Stomski]

Jul 20, 2021 5:12:51 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

I feel the BW cartoon would work much better as part of the existing TF saga - i.e. as a spin-off, not a reboot - if they didn't have recycled G1 names

Optimus, Megatron, Inferno, Scorponok, Dinobot, Rampage, Silverbolt... not a hugely extensive list. And aside from Optimus and Megs, the characters are so wildly different from G1 I never make the link in the same way I do in other canons.

[Philip Ayres]

Dinobot, like Insecticon, was a group name before BW and not a character.

Iguanus, Prowl, Grimlock, Ironhide, Snarl, Scourge, Razorclaw, Bonecrusher, Buzzsaw & Lazorbeak are the other name reuses in BW I can recall off the top of my head. There may be more. Prowl Owl & Grimlock's tech specs very much insinuate that the BW versions are the original characters. Show character Ravage definitely is

[Toph]

Prowl strives to find logic and reasoning in everything. A listener, not a talker. Has most sophisticated logic center of the Maximals. Able to analyze and advise on complex combat situations almost instantaneously. Fires highly corrosive acid pellets. Cybernetic eye and frontal lobe interact with wing mounted ion orbs, supplying limited telekinetic power. Afflicted with ironic, dry sense of humor. Believes himself to have been a great military strategist in a former life.

Actually, TM2 Prowl's bio explicitly says that he believes he is the original Prowl reincarnated, not that he actually is G1 Prowl.

Totally unrelated, I love the wording that he's "afflicted" with an ironic sense of humor.

For funsies, here's Grimlock's:

In another era when wars were waged between Autobots and Decepticons, Grimlock was a stalwart defender of the heroic Autobot cause. Today, disguised as a vicious velociraptor, Grimlock continues to battle against interstellar tyranny as he fights the evil Predacons. After converting to robot mode, his spinning slasher sword - hidden within his tail - slices through the Predacon legions. And when the attack is over, you can usually find him flossing his fangs with the internal wiring of his battle-beaten enemies.

But yeah, Phil's right. These two, plus Jaguar/Agent Ravage are the only ones actually connected to their G1 namesakes, with Grim and Ravage actually being the individual in question, while Prowl just has fun with it.

[Stomski]

Just to clarify, I was sticking to show characters who were different characters to G1, hence the omission of Ravage. Don't want anyone bringing my TF-Fan credentials into question, anything else about me you can, except my love of Tiramisu.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Jul 20, 2021 6:37:06 GMT Toph said:

And also, people are named after historical figures all the time, too. I'd not be surprised at all if Optimus became a really popular name for new protoforms, after the great war ended.

But in that case characters called Optimus and Megatron shouldn't always be the leaders and they shouldn't always crash to Earth with their factions at the same time.

I actually don't mind the fire ant Predacon being called Inferno. I just don't like the names of the leaders being conveniently similar to those that have proven to sell toys.

I'd be happier if the Rhinox character was called Optimus and the Rattrap character was called Megatron, and the Maximal leader was called Brawn and the Predacon leader was called Snapdragon.

Martin

[Shockprowl]

Jul 20, 2021 14:36:58 GMT Stomski said:

Just to clarify, I was sticking to show characters who were different characters to G1, hence the omission of Ravage. Don't want anyone bringing my TF-Fan credentials into question, anything else about me you can, except my love of Tiramisu.

I have my TF-Fan credentials handed to me on plate all the time. It ain't no bother.

[Toph]

Jul 20, 2021 18:06:14 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

Jul 20, 2021 6:37:06 GMT Toph said:

And also, people are named after historical figures all the time, too. I'd not be surprised at all if Optimus became a really popular name for new protoforms, after the great war ended.

But in that case characters called Optimus and Megatron shouldn't always be the leaders and they shouldn't always crash to Earth with their factions at the same time.

I actually don't mind the fire ant Predacon being called Inferno. I just don't like the names of the leaders being conveniently similar to those that have proven to sell toys.

I'd be happier if the Rhinox character was called Optimus and the Rattrap character was called Megatron, and the Maximal leader was called Brawn and the Predacon leader was called Snapdragon.

Martin

To be fair, neither were the leaders of their respective factions in the show. At least not until Beast Machines. Megatron was basically a hoodlum with visions of grandeur, while Primal was just a captain on a science vessel.

And Megatron canonically renamed himself to that.

[Llama God]

I like that explanation for Megatron taking that name, it does work (for me, anyway). Primal's is a little more dubious, but you cuold also assume the same thing, like that when he became captain of the Axalon he decided to take on a more grandiose-sounding name, only for irony to come and strike in a very ironic fashion.

[KnightBeat]

[Source] Toph said:

And also, people are named after historical figures all the time, too. I'd not be surprised at all if Optimus became a really popular name for new protoforms, after the great war ended.

It would also explain the sillier names we saw during the Beast era: Dinobot and Insecticon being named after the legendary teams, Primal Prime being named after both Optimuses...er, Magna Boss being a homage to Pyra Magna and Boss.

[Philip Ayres]

I believe I hinted upthread about why Magnaboss is named Magnaboss.

[Toph]

Jul 21, 2021 11:45:06 GMT KnightBeat said:

[Source] Toph said:

And also, people are named after historical figures all the time, too. I'd not be surprised at all if Optimus became a really popular name for new protoforms, after the great war ended.

It would also explain the sillier names we saw during the Beast era: Dinobot and Insecticon being named after the legendary teams, Primal Prime being named after both Optimuses...er, Magna Boss being a homage to Pyra Magna and Boss.

While it doesn't explain the toy, in terms of fiction, I've always looked at "Dinobot" as Megatron being denigrating to him when he first calls him that.

[The Huff]

If there weren't G1 name re-uses in Beast Wars, then I dread to think what other lame names we would have had to go alongside Cheetor and Tigatron:

Grrr-illa
Tyranasor
Antor
Velocirap Tor
Insector
Wolfeagle-Man
Elephantron
Hawkor
Lionface

[dyrl]

Hun-grr formally protests against the implications that the above post contains in reference to proper Transformer names.

[Toph]

Beast Wars did pretty good with non-G1 names, I think

Seaclamp
Clawjaw
Nightglider
Jawbreaker
Skyshadow
Airazor
Quickstrike
Blackarachnia
Depthcharge
Rattrap

I mean G1 wasn't all winners in the name department, either.
Iguanus
Blot
Jazz
Huffer
Erector
Octopunch
Cyclonus
Chromedome
Laserbeak
Motormaster
These aren't exactly names to write home about.

I'm not bashing on G1. If you prefer it, that's cool. It's just genuinely no better or worse than BW, UT, Aligned, or any other era. It's just older. The characters aren't superior or inferior, nor are the names.

[Benn]

Not GRR Illa, Gore-Illa.

Ah, I think all of TF's have had decent names. I mean, maybe a little lazy sometimes but they all seem to fit their dudes pretty well. Maybe it's just cuz I suck at coming up with names.

[The Huff]

Jazz is a wonderful name. I think Octopunch is too.

But you are right - after time, as the name becomes familiar, we forget how naff they are.

I'll bring up Unicron again - what does it mean!? Am I missing a hidden meaning to it? I always thought it was UniCORN until I heard it said aloud in the cinema.

[Llama God]

His proper name is actually Ronald, and the real reason he consumes everything in the universe is so that he can wipe out every other Ronald, and be the only one.

[Pinwig]

I've always assumed Uni - prefix meaning one/singular and Cron is from chronos, meaning time. So it's like singular moment, meaning his arrival is like an event horizon. The moment time ends.

[The Doctor]

Wow.

-Ralph

[Toph]

I... I really like that

[The Huff]

Thanks Pinwig - or can I call you Jeeves? That makes perfect sense and gives his name an imposing weight and meaning now.

I can now stop thinking his parents wanted to name him after a pretty mythological horse but mispelled his name on the birth certificate.

[Llama God]

Who *wouldn't* want to name their child after a pretty mythological horse..?

But yes, that's a very good explanation. And, I suspect, one that's had more thought put into it than whoever it was that gave the character the name in the first place...

[Philip Ayres]

Jul 23, 2021 7:21:19 GMT Llama God said:

Who *wouldn't* want to name their child after a pretty mythological horse..?

Just because you passed up on the opportunity to name Scraplet "Unicorn Sparkle Rowe-Tan" doesn't mean you have to be bitter about it

[Llama God]

Well we did name him for one of the people of Rohan, the horse-lords of Middle-Earth, so we almost did...

[Bogatan]

Jul 22, 2021 21:50:07 GMT Pinwig said:

I've always assumed Uni - prefix meaning one/singular and Cron is from chronos, meaning time. So it's like singular moment, meaning his arrival is like an event horizon. The moment time ends.

Thats definitely the Marvel Comics version because theres no way the loser gamer kid from sunbow season 3 didn't just misplell Unicorn when trying to impress a MLP fan.