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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 15, 2015 10:13:04 GMT
I think we should just force transformers to adopt the Marvel multiverse numbering system for different universes that Alan Moore started.
Andy
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 15, 2015 10:22:44 GMT
I have to say when I mentioned that last night I suddenly felt a massive weight lift off my shoulders, really. It was like suddenly there was an answer and none of it mattered.
You could even say the Beast Wars cartoon was it's own universe even though it tied into them finding Ark on earth. Looking on it that way absolutely everything works and the possibility of cross universe stories opens up.
My head tends to need things sorted and the constant 'how does it all fit?' Can grind you down.
Now could someone find a similar solution for dating UNIT stories please? I will pay standard therapy rates.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 15, 2015 10:58:36 GMT
I like the Marvel approach to Time Travel.
If you travel in time you don't change the future, you just create an alternate timeline, so I'd agree that the Beast Wars cartoon creates it's own timeline as a result of them being back in time. Up until Beast Machines you would argue that it was more in tune with the comic (Ark design not withstanding) but then the use of the Oracle/Hate Plague being Sunbow elements, you'd argue it's a synthesis of the two.
UNIT dating, dammit now that is the last thing that humanity will ever learn. We will be immortal cosmic beings before there is a proper explanation for that problem!
Andy
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Post by Bogatan on Feb 15, 2015 12:13:09 GMT
The thing is that G2 wasnt even that original. Wed already had subtitled lines with micromasters, actionmasters, pretenders? And classics.
If classics had gotten a us release and there hadnt been a g2 thars what g1 would be called now.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 15, 2015 12:46:04 GMT
The thing is that G2 wasnt even that original. Wed already had subtitled lines with micromasters, actionmasters, pretenders? And classics. If classics had gotten a us release and there hadnt been a g2 thars what g1 would be called now. It would be such a better name as well. Andy |
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Post by legios on Feb 15, 2015 12:54:48 GMT
I like the Marvel approach to Time Travel. If you travel in time you don't change the future, you just create an alternate timeline, so I'd agree that the Beast Wars cartoon creates it's own timeline as a result of them being back in time. Up until Beast Machines you would argue that it was more in tune with the comic (Ark design not withstanding) but then the use of the Oracle/Hate Plague being Sunbow elements, you'd argue it's a synthesis of the two. I don't know how much weight we give to authorial intent, but I read an interview years ago with one of the lead writers on Beast Wars that outright stated that his intent was that it was neither in the same continuity as the Sunbow series or the Marvel comic. From the point of view of the Beast Wars characters he said that both of those were like Arthurian myth - competing versions, both inaccurate but having some truth to them. It was their way of acknowledging what had gone before without feeling beholden to someone elses story. I quite liked that approach. Doctor Who has a Time War in its story now, minor continuity changes and redating of events feels just like "Cost of doing business" from my position on the Frontier in Time. (With Popcorn. And Cola. Brought from a '50s Drive-in. ) Karl |
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Post by Toph on Feb 15, 2015 13:29:26 GMT
I guess by now we would be saying something to shorthand/differentiate, like 'Original Transformers' or 'OTFs'. Which is actually a good way to illustrate my opinion on the use of G1. If we were calling it something like 'Original' then we'd in no way be branding the likes of the IDW material under that umbrella, and there'd be no reasonable arguement to. I look at G1 the same way, with the further reasoning that 'Generation One' is again a seperate, later branch of one comic run only. Otherwise everything ever branded Robots In Disguise would all have to be considered the same things as well. I look at Beast Wars the same way I look at 'G1' toys/toon/comics; multiple takes on the same core ideas that are equally valid if not all my preference, and because they were all happening at the same time there's no question that they were different branches of the same tree. IDW is it's own tree, it's roots just got tangled in the 30 year old thicket called Transformers. What the fuck am I talking about? But not all BW was released then. BW Uprising is going on right now. It's a drastically different story than the japanese, american, original toy, or idw series. With a drastically different take on many characters. Yet, no one ever argues that it's any less valid a BW continuity as you guys do IDW G1. I'm sure it would have something. Doctor who is now called several different things to differentiate the two shows, and we've already said star trek is labeled TOS. As soon as there's two of something they gain labels to divide them, if it was just 'Transformers' no one would know which type you were talking about. Whether official or not a label would exist. Oh yes the label exists, but my point was quite clear in that at no point have I been able to go and buy a Transformer toy that is labelled as Transformers: Generation 1. Folks call it G1 and I do as well at times, because it is an aid to folks understanding what you are on about, but there was not a Transformers Generation 1. There was Transformers and then there was Transformers Generation 2 that was my point. Andy I don't think anyone has EVER argued that "G1" actually showed up on the original toyline/fiction. That's just putting words in my mouth to be argumentative. |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 15, 2015 13:46:41 GMT
I guess by now we would be saying something to shorthand/differentiate, like 'Original Transformers' or 'OTFs'. Which is actually a good way to illustrate my opinion on the use of G1. If we were calling it something like 'Original' then we'd in no way be branding the likes of the IDW material under that umbrella, and there'd be no reasonable arguement to. I look at G1 the same way, with the further reasoning that 'Generation One' is again a seperate, later branch of one comic run only. Otherwise everything ever branded Robots In Disguise would all have to be considered the same things as well. I look at Beast Wars the same way I look at 'G1' toys/toon/comics; multiple takes on the same core ideas that are equally valid if not all my preference, and because they were all happening at the same time there's no question that they were different branches of the same tree. IDW is it's own tree, it's roots just got tangled in the 30 year old thicket called Transformers. What the fuck am I talking about? But not all BW was released then. BW Uprising is going on right now. It's a drastically different story than the japanese, american, original toy, or idw series. With a drastically different take on many characters. Yet, no one ever argues that it's any less valid a BW continuity as you guys do IDW G1. Oh yes the label exists, but my point was quite clear in that at no point have I been able to go and buy a Transformer toy that is labelled as Transformers: Generation 1. Folks call it G1 and I do as well at times, because it is an aid to folks understanding what you are on about, but there was not a Transformers Generation 1. There was Transformers and then there was Transformers Generation 2 that was my point. Andy I don't think anyone has EVER argued that "G1" actually showed up on the original toyline/fiction. That's just putting words in my mouth to be argumentative. No. I was talking to Ed About what I said. I was not being argumentative but it is nice to know you can see my thoughts when I am typing. Now THAT was me being argumentative. You have your opinions, I have mine. THAT IS THE END OF IT. Andy |
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Post by Kingoji on Feb 15, 2015 14:03:50 GMT
But not all BW was released then. BW Uprising is going on right now. It's a drastically different story than the japanese, american, original toy, or idw series. With a drastically different take on many characters. Yet, no one ever argues that it's any less valid a BW continuity as you guys do IDW G1. I guess I've never heard of Beast Wars Uprising then, but I figure if I were informed about it I WOULD treat it the same as the IDW material. As it's own thing. Or: Beast Wars uprising is a valid Beast Wars story. And IDW's Transformers material is a valid TRANSFORMERS story. |
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 16, 2015 21:20:01 GMT
The only true continuity is the Ladybird Books and Cassettes continuity.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 16, 2015 21:48:24 GMT
<nods in sage agreement>
You may jest, but those should be set in stone. Transformers commandments they are.
A while back I seriously started thinking about writing a fanzine about them, set out to try and contact the writer and then found out he was dead. Which kinda stopped that idea.
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 16, 2015 21:49:45 GMT
I do not jest. It is the one true continuity. I even wrote a Ladybird fanfic once many moons ago.
*rolling chattering sound*
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 16, 2015 21:52:58 GMT
*thread derail, sorry Phil* Awesome. I used to make my own card inlays for them because they didn't have any. I've still got a full set of the cassettes and most of the books  |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 16, 2015 22:26:37 GMT
I do not jest. It is the one true continuity. I even wrote a Ladybird fanfic once many moons ago. *rolling chattering sound* -Ralph I still have the stuff to do our Ladybird book. We will finish it this year. Andy |
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 16, 2015 22:32:42 GMT
Aw, do! Are you going to do a tape too? I wonder if it's possible to cleanly extract the sound effects from the originals. I sense a project coming on.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 16, 2015 22:40:07 GMT
Aw, do! Are you going to do a tape too? I wonder if it's possible to cleanly extract the sound effects from the originals. I sense a project coming on. A tape...hmm we did toy with doing an Mp3 but a tape...oooh I like that idea. Andy |
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 16, 2015 22:59:45 GMT
This thread should be called "1984-1993", surely? Yes I've been wondering. Is it a typo or am I missing something? I could well be missing something, I am mostly about the looks after all. |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 16, 2015 23:11:02 GMT
*thread derail, sorry Phil* Awesome. I used to make my own card inlays for them because they didn't have any. I've still got a full set of the cassettes and most of the books Do you still have the inlays, as I'd love to see them. Andy |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 16, 2015 23:11:26 GMT
This thread should be called "1984-1993", surely? Yes I've been wondering. Is it a typo or am I missing something? I could well be missing something, I am mostly about the looks after all. Yes, a typo from Phil when he moved the posts out of the CW thread. Andy |
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 16, 2015 23:13:55 GMT
Oh I though it was something mystical and temporal!
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 16, 2015 23:16:20 GMT
Sorry to shatter your illusions chum.
Andy
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 16, 2015 23:28:21 GMT
*thread derail, sorry Phil* Awesome. I used to make my own card inlays for them because they didn't have any. I've still got a full set of the cassettes and most of the books Do you still have the inlays, as I'd love to see them. Andy I do. They're not proper drawn art though, I used to photocopy art from the books and go over it with marker pens, then cut it to fit a card inlay and stick logos on cut from the catalogue sheets that came with the toys. My design work has always been about producing an end result as close to what it's emulating as possible rather than being actually artistic. Like the Who DVD covers I mentioned a while back. I can scan some though if you're interested. |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 16, 2015 23:32:12 GMT
Do you still have the inlays, as I'd love to see them. Andy I do. They're not proper drawn art though, I used to photocopy art from the books and go over it with marker pens, then cut it to fit a card inlay and stick logos on cut from the catalogue sheets that came with the toys. My design work has always been about producing an end result as close to what it's emulating as possible rather than being actually artistic. Like the Who DVD covers I mentioned a while back. I can scan some though if you're interested. I'd love to see the inlays, so a few scans would not go amiss. Andy |
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Post by Pinwig on Feb 16, 2015 23:35:27 GMT
Sure. I'll dig them out. The 12 year old me would be proud |
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