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Post by legios on Aug 14, 2016 18:11:23 GMT
Yep. Legends of Tomorrow was one of those things which I really think if it had had a pilot done, instead of having a commitment straight out of the gate would have never actually aired. The channel, by all accounts were as unimpressed with the opener as the rest of us. But they'd paid for the darned thing and had a slot it needed to go into, so off it went.
It is never that good, but it certainly does manage to improve on the dire opening two hours.I do find some of the cast very watchable - Wentworth Miller is great as Captain Cold and he and Dominic Purcell (Heatwave) bounce off each other really well, Brandon Routh is quite fun too. Arthur Darvill is teeth-grindingly awful though, regularly chewed up and spat-out by guest actors.
The other great flaw with Legends was that the villain wasn't very good. Vandal Savage needs to have a lot more presence than was being brought, I never once bought into the idea of him being an experienced manipulator of people (or that he was learning anything at all from his extended lifespan really).
Karl
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Post by Bogatan on Aug 14, 2016 18:46:38 GMT
I like Supergirl a lot, the character as written and actress playing her, but the show has felt off all season.
I really couldn't put my finger on what the problem is. But I think its the mix of characters. I was trying to figure out if it was a lack of female characters, but there are a few, it didn't help that Kat took a long time to settle as did her sister who Im still not 100% on. And Lucy Lane doesnt get introduced till later on.
A lack of female friends might be closer or any friends generally. I mean technically she doesnt have any friends. She has 2 potential love interests, a sister and two employers. They are all her friends but not just friends.
Then The Flash shows up and I know that her friends have been the problem, the chemistry with Barry is what the show had been lacking all year. The other DC shows all have better relationships than on Supergirl. Even legends has the prison break guys who are great and their relationships with Routh develope nicely too.
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 14, 2016 18:53:53 GMT
Good point that. I hadn't thought about that, but you're exactly right.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 14, 2016 18:58:20 GMT
I think it makes sense though, she's an alien and it's hard for anyone who knows that to relate to her on equal terms, however much she tries to integrate. I think the person she has the greatest chance of really relating to as a friend on equal terms is the Martian, who has the same barrier between himself and the humans.
Martin
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Post by Bogatan on Aug 14, 2016 20:19:47 GMT
I'm sure that wa the idea and if she was being played or written that way I would agree, but she is possibly the friendliest person ever and she'd kept being an alien a secret. So even if High school was rough because she was a new arrival on Earth the following 5-8 years she becomes a very happy out going person. Even if she wasn't looking to make friends I find it hard to believe she wouldn't still end up with them as she'd also be too nice to break up/avoid/be mean to them to get them to go away.
But when the show starts it seems her entire social circle is a sister who is hiding a large part of her life from her and Winn.
Im not saying its wrong just that something about the et up bugs me enourmously.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 15, 2016 4:00:15 GMT
I'm sure that wa the idea and if she was being played or written that way I would agree, but she is possibly the friendliest person ever and she'd kept being an alien a secret. So even if High school was rough because she was a new arrival on Earth the following 5-8 years she becomes a very happy out going person. Even if she wasn't looking to make friends I find it hard to believe she wouldn't still end up with them as she'd also be too nice to break up/avoid/be mean to them to get them to go away. But when the show starts it seems her entire social circle is a sister who is hiding a large part of her life from her and Winn. Well, I assume she was fairly new to town. And while people will like her, she probably doesn't let specific friendships get very deep in order to protect her secret identity. Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 1, 2016 18:00:09 GMT
If BVS was not your cup of tea, the new animation 'Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders' featuring Adam West and Burt Ward is having one-off showings at Cineworlds on the 17th. I have booked!
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Oct 17, 2016 20:38:39 GMT
Loved it. Spot-on recreation of the 60's show.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 2, 2017 19:09:09 GMT
Absolutely tipping it down here today, so this afternoon got nominated for watching the three hour version of this. I wasn't expecting a lot from it, but I really quite enjoyed it. I particularly liked the way the opening showed the climax to Man of Steel from a different character's perspective, which to me made the universe feel more cohesive than some of the ways the Marvel films are linked. I also then liked the way it slowly built up Wonder Woman's role to the point the next natural step is a film to explain more about her, with odd bits thrown in to foreshadow Justice League. I liked the sombre tone and the plot was more interesting than the usual 'fight the bad guy' stuff (I'm assuming it's pilfered from various comic series? the Death of Superman bit at the end didn't quite seem to match up with the Civil War style 'he's too powerful, I have to take him down' premise of the first half). It actually made me want to go back and watch Man of Steel again - I suddenly felt this is a universe I could invest some time in.
Bad points - basically the casting. I can't get my head round Affleck as Batman, he just isn't what I see as Bruce Wayne, Cavill I'd just about accepted by the end, but Lex Luthor was totally wrong. You can do a young Lex - like the one that was in Smallville - but Jessie Eisenberg seemed to be channeling the Joker for some reason. In fact he would have made a better Joker than Jared Leto did in Suicide Squad.
Impressed though. I was expecting tripe, but ended up wanting to know more about this universe.
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 2, 2017 22:22:40 GMT
I watched the theatrical version (which is how all films should be judged). I thought it was an entertaining mess. Not felt the urge to see the longer version. I would be interested in your opinion on the cinema cut.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Aug 2, 2017 22:34:03 GMT
I might well watch that at some point. I borrowed the Blu-ray from a relative so it'll go back before I get the chance, but I'm interested to know if the extra half hour is padding or plot.
I take your point that theatrical releases are how films should be judged, but in cases like this where the longer version is a director's cut made through artistic choice rather than a studio's commercial concerns I think it's just as valid. I could never judge Blade Runner by its original release.
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Post by Toph on Aug 2, 2017 22:57:08 GMT
Well, the Director's Cut of Daredevil was actually not half bad. The theatrical cut was as awful as everyone damns it for.
I think sometimes cases where studios do an excessive amount of meddling, the films deserve a second judgement for the director's version.
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Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 6,121
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Post by Stomski on Aug 5, 2017 20:32:18 GMT
Utter tosh Ralph, theatrical versions come under immense pressure from studios to meet length/content requirements and should be discarded when a director's preferred vision is available.
It's like saying that 7" versions of music releases should be what they are judged by because that is what was wildly available. But actually the full 12" version is what the artist actually wrote before the studio got involved for the commercial release, so you should go with that.
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 5, 2017 22:09:10 GMT
Utter tosh, Stomski. The theatrical cut is what most people see. It's where the film makes most of its money. It's the default version of a film. Additional versions are of curiosity.
-Ralph
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Post by blueshift on Aug 6, 2017 6:07:29 GMT
Utter tosh, Stomski. The theatrical cut is what most people see. It's where the film makes most of its money. It's the default version of a film. Additional versions are of curiosity. -Ralph Like Blade Runner? It's the director's cut which 99% of people know and love. The theatrical cut is the curio (and awful to boot) |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 6, 2017 8:48:25 GMT
Not all Director's Cuts are improvements on the film...
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 6, 2017 9:36:42 GMT
Very few. The only ones that spring to mind are The Abyss and Bladerunner. Otherwise curiosity value only. Longer cuts tend to be baggy and have pacing issues. There's something about the cauldron of editing for theatrical exhibition that just makes films better.
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Aug 6, 2017 15:38:20 GMT
I'd agree that in many cases Director's Cuts are often not as good. Often there are good reasons for studios wanting nips and tucks to be made to a film. Aliens stands out as an example - almost all of the stuff that adds in is things we don't need. The stuff with the colonists especially weakens the film. It is much better for tension to go into Hadley's Hope not knowing absolutely for certain what has happened.
I'd agree that Bladerunner is a rare example of a Director's Cut which is better, can't comment on the Abyss (I know all the material that is in the Cut because it was used in the novelisation. The last Orson Scott Card thing that I've been able to bring myself to touch, as I read it just before finding out about the author...) as I've not seen that version. But here we are in "exception that proves the rule" territory really.
Making things shorter, tighter and more focused is rarely to their detriment.
Karl
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Post by Bogatan on Aug 6, 2017 17:30:28 GMT
I think it depends on if the directors cut is the version the director wanted to put out or simply a way to sell a new version of the film by sticking in some delted scenes.
Muppet Christmas Carol is much improved by the return of the missing song that Disney insisted be removed. And that version was the definitive version for about 15 years as it was the version on VHS and early DVDs and shown on TV.
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Post by blueshift on Aug 6, 2017 17:39:48 GMT
I think it depends on if the directors cut is the version the director wanted to put out or simply a way to sell a new version of the film by sticking in some delted scenes. On the flipside though, the director's cut of Army of Darkness is awful, and the 'studio interference' cut is amazing! |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 6, 2017 17:58:40 GMT
I think it depends on if the directors cut is the version the director wanted to put out or simply a way to sell a new version of the film by sticking in some delted scenes. On the flipside though, the director's cut of Army of Darkness is awful, and the 'studio interference' cut is amazing! No more of your filthy lies! Andy |
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Post by blueshift on Aug 6, 2017 18:00:09 GMT
On the flipside though, the director's cut of Army of Darkness is awful, and the 'studio interference' cut is amazing! No more of your filthy lies! Andy The director's cut removes all the jokes and has a downbeat ending! |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 6, 2017 18:16:37 GMT
No more of your filthy lies! Andy The director's cut removes all the jokes and has a downbeat ending! It's a better ending. Andy |
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Post by blueshift on Aug 6, 2017 18:25:51 GMT
The director's cut removes all the jokes and has a downbeat ending! It's a better ending. Andy Oh my god |
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 6, 2017 18:27:35 GMT
It's a better ending. Andy Oh my god It's also the one most people in the UK saw, as the international release was the director's cut. Andy |
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Post by blueshift on Aug 6, 2017 18:39:18 GMT
It's also the one most people in the UK saw, as the international release was the director's cut. Andy One more example of how the UK gets shafted!!! |
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Post by Shockprowl on Aug 6, 2017 18:55:31 GMT
Very few. The only ones that spring to mind are The Abyss and Bladerunner. Otherwise curiosity value only. Longer cuts tend to be baggy and have pacing issues. There's something about the cauldron of editing for theatrical exhibition that just makes films better. -Ralph Totally agree with Abyss and Bladerunner. Those Director's Cuts really improved the films. I found Aliens Director Cut improved that film, but not as much as Abyss and Bladerunner. But yes, many others don't really improve the film as such, just add, as you say Doctor, curiosity. I certainly don't think just adding deleted scenes is what a director's cut should be all about. Take Bladerunner, the removal of Ford's voice over and the sharper ending completely altered the entire mood of the film, in a good way. I like Batman vs Superman and would like to see it's Directors Cut, although I suspect it's just an 'Added Scenes' Director's Cut and more of a curiosity than an improvement. Maybe he says "Martha" in a slightly different way which makes that scene (the only thing that lets the movie down imo) a little less daft. Hmmmm... I think someone needs to warp all this 'Director's Cut' chat into it's own thread! |
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Post by Toph on Aug 6, 2017 18:59:23 GMT
Martha...? But that's my mommy!
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT NAME HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT NAME HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT NAME HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT NAME HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT NAME
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 6, 2017 19:10:52 GMT
Theatrical versions and director's cuts should each be judged on their merits. It would be stupid to insist on the inferior version, whichever it may be, being the one people should be encouraged to re-watch in years to come, when there is a better version available.
Usually, I prefer the director's cut. It improved BvS from a 1/5 rating to a 2/5 rating for me. Similarly 'The Wolverine'. I'd give the theatrical cuts of 'G.I. Joe: Retaliation' and 'X-Men: Days of Future Past' 2/5 but the director's cuts of those films 3/5. 'Kingdom of Heaven' jumps from 3/5 to 5/5 with the extended version (probably the biggest leap in quality of story I've seen when going from a theatrical cut to the director's, it's such a radical improvement), and the Peter Jackson Middle-Earth saga from 4/5 to 5/5.
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on Aug 6, 2017 21:17:20 GMT
I found the Jackson LOTR already overlong and loggy so have never watched the longer versions. The Wolverine I enjoyed but thought it needed trimming not adding to so never watched the longer version. GI Joe: Retaliation already had pacing problems in the first half which were exacerbated by shoving more scenes in for the Blu-Ray cut (which also moved the positioning of the logo, which then omitted a decent gag).
-Ralph
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