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Post by blueshift on Dec 5, 2015 23:03:38 GMT
Okay, time to vote. Who would you rather die if you can only choose one?
In the red corner: Clara!
Saviour of the universe, inspired the Doctor and literally perfect! 5-6 exits and still going strong! Why is she so literally perfect and wonderful and NOT BLAND AT ALL. So wonderful.
In the blue corner, sweetie, River Song!
SASSY River Song, sweetie. Spoilers! Psycho murderer but we love her because (spoilers) she's so sassy, sweetie. She died but she's still alive as a super special ghost (spoilers sweetie).
Moffat is great at writing women because he understands women don't have personalities but just need to be literally flawless and placed on a pedestal to worship. But clearly one must win! Who must die??
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Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 5, 2015 23:06:19 GMT
In a fight to the death there can be no sausages!
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Post by blueshift on Dec 5, 2015 23:06:40 GMT
In a fight to the death there can be no sausages! Gordon Tipple is flying the honorary sausage flag today. |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 5, 2015 23:14:06 GMT
Gordon Tipple!
-Ralph
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Post by blueshift on Dec 5, 2015 23:17:31 GMT
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 6, 2015 11:03:11 GMT
Toby Hadoke must track him down.
-Ralph
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Post by blueshift on Dec 6, 2015 16:20:41 GMT
Toby Hadoke must track him down. -Ralph It's unbelievable that Big Finish hasn't picked him up for something yet |
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Post by legios on Dec 6, 2015 17:12:53 GMT
Okay, time to vote. Who would you rather die if you can only choose one? In the red corner: Clara!Saviour of the universe, inspired the Doctor and literally perfect! 5-6 exits and still going strong! Why is she so literally perfect and wonderful and NOT BLAND AT ALL. So wonderful. In the blue corner, sweetie, River Song!SASSY River Song, sweetie. Spoilers! Psycho murderer but we love her because (spoilers) she's so sassy, sweetie. She died but she's still alive as a super special ghost (spoilers sweetie). In fairness, it isn't so much that they need to die. The problem seems to be to stop them respawning each time they die... :-) Karl |
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
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Post by primenova on Dec 6, 2015 18:25:48 GMT
How many Doctors has each of them seen? Clara has seen 1-12 + WD. I don't think River has seen all of them (meaning faces) - 1,10,11 & one future Doctor who is the one she travelled with but is far older than the Doctor right now. If the 10th Doctor was like a 2yrs old then the Doctor at end of series 9 would be 20 while River travelled with a 65yr old Doctor. Only guess work on everything she said in series 4.
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 6, 2015 18:54:06 GMT
Leave Clara to her own devices and she'll find a way to die while cutting her nails. All River has to do is keep the Doctor to busy to find a way to save/bring her back.
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Post by Toph on Dec 6, 2015 20:32:27 GMT
River's timeline is kinda messed up, largely because Moffat completely misused her regenerations.
In Silence in the Library and Forest of the Dead, she told (or implied to) the Doctor that she has personally seen many of his faces. And that 10 is the youngest she's ever seen him.
Pretty much this implied that she's been with him through several regenerations to come.
Yet when they revealed she's half timelord, which perfectly set up having TWO Rivers in play (Alex Kingston for the final backwards travelling form, and whomever they needed for the multiple younger forms), they blew it all by having her go straight to Kingston.
They could have at leadt hired a young blond actress who could play a younger version of Kingston.
And THEN they played out her entire storyline, birth to finish, with 11. So she lived and died without even seeing another Doctor.
They didn't even write in nebulous gaps where she could pop up later in our timeline while being in the middle of her's.
River is about the best character concept Moffat ever had, but he had absolutely no clue how to play the long game she needed.
It was a stroke of genius to introduce her at her death, and then make us fall in love with her. It was just a stroke that he never did anything more significant with her than that.
And everything about Clara post Snowmen has been nothing short of disappointment. Jenna Coleman is a great actress. Clara is smart, bright, clever, and fun. We saw all her best traits as the governess. Plus being from a not-modern time would have been awesome. Yet he killed off the fun one who immediately could go toe to toe with the Doctor, in favor of setting up this magic girl story for her, and replaced her with a version of the character he didn't know what to do with. So she became bland and dull, and has a deathwish, and completely ignored all the traits that made the Governess Clara so much fun.
And also ignored some amazing opportunities to get back in touch with the show's roots since she was a teacher.
Going further, the 12th Doctor suffers in exactly the same way Clara does, in that Moffat doesn't know what to do with him. Instead of giving him his own unique personality, he has everyone talk about his eyebrows and inundates him with "fun!" gimmicks, like sonic sunglasses, meanwhile playing him exactly like 11 or 10.
I love Coleman. And I like Capaldi. I think they're both doing a great job with what they're given to work with. But despite having two charasmatic and fun actors, I really don't care for their characters.
As such, who deserves to die? Neither. Neither deserves it. River's death was already written, but she had/has a loooong journey to get to that point. And she had a built in mechanism that allowed multiple actors to play her.
Clara suffers Moffat's Magic Girl syndrom. Where as Rose, Martha, Donna, Wilfred, Mickey and Jackie could literally be anyone off the street, being special by virtue of just being human, Amy and Clara needed to be magical in order for the Doctor to want them.
Amy, the Girl who Waited, and Clara, the Impossible Girl who blew in on a leaf.
Moffat should have stepped down and retired from Doctor Who after Day of the Doctor. That, or Night of the Doctor were built in turnover points for new blood to take over.
That's who I cast my vote for, even though he's not an option.
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
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Post by primenova on Dec 7, 2015 8:28:53 GMT
The ep where she had just been taking out by the Doctor for her birthday - that must have been Doctor 13+
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 8, 2015 11:41:10 GMT
I don't dislike either of them, in fact I quite like them both, but...
I'd agree a trick has been missed with River's regenerations, and I wish her story had been stretched across more Doctors rather than doing the full thing and now appearances are slotted into gaps. I don't think I'd thought about this before, but I'm not fond of tying her into the Ponds either. I don't think everything should be connected - It gives audiences a *gasp* moment but makes all of time and space seem a lot smaller than if it was just a case of Mr and Mrs Song had a daughter.
Clara...
The big problem I had was at the end of series 7 where I found that (whilst she was OK) I preferred both Oswin and the Victorian version to modern Clara. It didn't help that quite a bit of time was spent on "ooo... mysterious... what's going on with the impossible girl?". After that was dealt with "proper" Clara was much better (although I do wish they'd gone with the Victorian version as originally planned) and I'd agree that there was an over abundance of "look how awesome Clara is" moments.
Then there were the exits... I liked the final exit, but then again, her leaving after her boyfriend became Zombie Tony Stark made sense. If last years Xmas special had been a last hurrah and old and happy Clara was how we left her... fine, but then she rejoined. To be fair despite the "I'm extremely awesome and your not" moments, she was good, then she died. Then she came back... and whilst she's flown off to new adventures at the end, there's that part of me that's thinking 'when is she coming back and what super awesome and important thing is she going to do?'. Uggh.
But, yeah I do quite like her.
In summary, the correct answer is Gordon Tipple.
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 9, 2015 20:54:10 GMT
You see into my mind!
-Ralph
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