|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Apr 30, 2021 6:50:08 GMT
Yes. I'm happy now. And my vote goes to... Archforce. Martin
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2021 6:54:47 GMT
Moon on a ****ing stick..... I knew this week was going to be tough going! You made it tough for yourself by bringing in your prejudices rather than starting from a neutral position... Don't worry, I need to get up and go to work now. Martin I do rather suspect that you might be serving as the warm up act here.....
|
|
|
Post by Llama God on Apr 30, 2021 7:03:58 GMT
What about this DOESN'T say Optimus Prime to you? Not ANOTHER of Phil's mad theories! Just because it's a red-truck, that turns into a robot with windows on its chest, has a head that looks like Optimus Prime, and was originally released as Optimus Prime, doesn't mean it was meant to be Optimus Prime! Another stretch... Anyway, a working purple weapon that reliably shoots its shot is always going to be better than an unattractive semi, so my vote goes to Archforce.
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2021 7:21:56 GMT
until I realised that it's a heartbeat monitor with Optimus Prime returning to life! It's Sureshot, I think you'll find. It's easy to tell them apart. Optimus Prime is the one that says Optimus Prime on it. Martin Sureshot's chest ALSO says Optimus Prime according to his tech spec art:
|
|
The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,042
|
Post by The Huff on Apr 30, 2021 7:22:13 GMT
I can't decide!!!! I really like Megatron with his 'Megatron Rules!' chest tattoo but don't like Archforce much at all. I could vote for prime but that also means voting for Sureshot - which I don't want to because I hate the fact that Sureshot became a truck like Optimus...
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Apr 30, 2021 7:28:51 GMT
I'm going with Optimus Prime, because as Phil correctly points out, it is clearly OPTIMUS PRIME COMING BACK TO LIFE after that traiterous twat Hotrod got him killed.
Although he's seemingly come back less brave. Perhaps a near death -or actual death- experience will do that to ya...
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2021 7:55:08 GMT
What about this DOESN'T say Optimus Prime to you? The packaging, tech specs and the advertising poster. Also: identical twins are still distinct. Don't make me bring up David Hume again. -Ralph
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2021 7:57:22 GMT
Mr McV to the poll thread for a tech spec comparison....... You might also want to take the Japanese versions into account:
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Apr 30, 2021 7:58:21 GMT
I'm going with Optimus Prime, because as Phil correctly points out, it is clearly OPTIMUS PRIME COMING BACK TO LIFE after that traiterous twat Hotrod got him killed. In the toy-verse he's already come back to life as a Powermaster, an Action Master and that wee car. -Ralph
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2021 8:01:22 GMT
What about this DOESN'T say Optimus Prime to you? The packaging, tech specs and the advertising poster. The tech specs and the poster show the Optimus Prime toy. I suspect the same is true for the Megatron but the tech spec picture is tighter and the version on the poster may win a "worst transformed toy EVER!" award!
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2021 8:08:16 GMT
The US catalogue pic is also poorly Transformed for Op and probably uses the same prototype with the clear cable and unpainted chest grill! Week 167: What is the best Hero in the 1994 US Toyfair Catalogue?
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Apr 30, 2021 8:53:00 GMT
I'm going with Optimus Prime, because as Phil correctly points out, it is clearly OPTIMUS PRIME COMING BACK TO LIFE after that traiterous twat Hotrod got him killed. In the toy-verse he's already come back to life as a Powermaster, an Action Master and that wee car. -Ralph Oh right. Well, this return to life is clearly all about rubbing that twat Hotrod's nose in it and making sure EVERYBODY KNOWS what a traiterous twat he really is.
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2021 9:09:24 GMT
I'm going with Optimus Prime, because as Phil correctly points out, it is clearly OPTIMUS PRIME COMING BACK TO LIFE after that traiterous twat Hotrod got him killed. In the toy-verse he's already come back to life as a Powermaster, an Action Master and that wee car. -Ralph The wee car is yet to come!
|
|
|
Post by Benn on Apr 30, 2021 9:17:05 GMT
I don't know if we should be talking about a wee car after this weeks japery.
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2021 9:19:59 GMT
I think the arguments for Sureshot Optimus Prime and Archforce Megatron (a corruption of Archfoe?) are slightly different.
Sureshot looks like the original Optimus Prime, and most of his subsequent iterations, is the same colours as Op in robot mode, from the waist up at least, and has a name that for long term TF fans belongs to a completely different character. If you're not a hardcore TF fan, you'll look at it and think "That's Optimus Prime" And up until this point there wasn't much use of Optimus doubles in the UK. It had been done in Japan as Ginrai, but I look at that and think "How the **** did they think they were going to get away with pretending that's not Optimus Prime?" and I think exactly the same thing here!
(How much did we know about Japanese TFs in 94? Was it widely known that Ginrai WASN'T Optimus Prime?)
Archforce, on the other hand, doesn't look much like the original Megatron. He's the same shape as G2 Megatron, but a completely different colour. The name doesn't have prior use in TFs. You can stick G2 Megatron and Archforce next to each other and they don't shout two different versions of the same character. You can just about get away with this toy NOT being Megatron
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2021 9:21:52 GMT
I don't know if we should be talking about a wee car after this weeks japery.
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2021 9:40:27 GMT
Things Phil has never noticed before: As well as having the wording removed, Archforce's sticker is the other way up!
|
|
The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,042
|
Post by The Huff on Apr 30, 2021 10:11:05 GMT
Hmmm. Apart from the fake window chest (that could easily not be windows at all) I don't think Sureshot screams Optimus Prime (If I didn't know it was supposed to be him in another country) anymore than Pyro or Inferno.
Edit|: Guess he has the fake grill though.
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Apr 30, 2021 11:00:34 GMT
If you're not a hardcore TF fan, you'll look at it and think "That's Optimus Prime"... Although I do consider myself a hardcore fan, it is true that there -perhaps- some small gaps in my Transformers knowledge. And *I* think that that looks like Optimus Prime. Almost exactly like him.
|
|
|
Post by Jaymz on Apr 30, 2021 16:15:00 GMT
Optimus Prime is not the same as Sureshot and Megatron is not the same as Archforce. Why are they not separate options to vote? This is not an acceptable answer: One Poll Wins! The Forum Has Spoken! Surprising no-one, offering a poll with 2 wrong choices will result in a wrong choice. Please re-run this poll properly with all 4 options.
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Apr 30, 2021 16:25:24 GMT
I think a number of issues are getting mixed up.
Yes it's obvious that these toys were _designed_ as variations / new versions / close relatives of Optimus Prime and G2 Megatron. No-one in their right mind would say that the toy designer thought they were upgrading the Targetmaster Sureshot chap from 1987, or designing a completely original Decepticon who just happened to bear resemblance to G2 Megatron. And in the US they _were_ sold as Prime and Megatron. The toy designer would be in no way shocked to see his toys marketed as Prime and Megatron. Though he probably would be offended that Hasbro felt the need to put stickers with their names on the toys themselves to ensure fans accepted them as such.
But it also cannot be denied that someone consciously - not by mistake - decided that the toys should be sold in the UK as Sureshot and Archforce, removing the name stickers. That must be accepted as fact. The reason for it may be, as Phil suggested, because they didn't want more than one Prime and Megatron in the shops at the same time. On the other hand, that didn't bother them when Classic Prime and Action Master Prime were in the same catalogue, along with Pretender, Classic and Action Master Jazz and Grimlock.
But even if that was the reason, we should embrace the new names rather than hate them. After all, what makes for a more interesting story - Prime and Megatron getting body number 4, or Sureshot ending up in a body that had been intended for Optimus Prime, and a new upstart called Archforce nicking G2 Megatron's body (or body design)?
Martin
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Apr 30, 2021 16:46:07 GMT
| Strength | Intelligence | Speed | Endurance | Rank | Courage | Firepower | Skill | Original Optimus Prime | 10 | 10 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 10 | Powermaster Optimus Prime | 10 | 10 | 6 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 10 | Action Master Optimus Prime | 10 | 10 | 7 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 10 | Classic Optimus Prime | 9 | 9 | 7 | 9 | 9 | 7 | 9 | 9 | Targetmaster Sureshot | 6 | 7 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 8 | 7 | 10 | G2 Optimus Prime | 9 | 10 | 8 | 9.5 | 9 | 9 | 7.5 | 9 | G2 Hero Optimus Prime | 9 | 10 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 8 | 10 | 9 | Original Megatron | 10 | 10 | 4 | 8 | 10 | 9 | 10 | 9 | Action Master Megatron | 10 | 10 | 4 | 8 | 10 | 9 | 10 | 9 | G2 Megatron (green) | 9 | 9 | 4 | 9 | 10 | 7 | 10 | 5.5 | G2 Hero Megatron | 9 | 9 | 4 | 9 | 10 | 7 | 10 | 6 |
Hero Megatron's tech-specs are almost identical to those of the G2 green tank, except half a point up on skill. Targetmaster Sureshot and Hero Prime have the same courage!! Coincidence? YOU DECIDE. Martin
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Apr 30, 2021 16:49:14 GMT
We aren't voting on the names, or the characters, we're voting for the toys.
And the toys are all but identical.
So putting all four in one poll wouldn't be productive. 4 votes for Optimus, 4 for Sureshot and 6 for Megatron produces a different winner to 8 for Optimus aka Sureshot and 6 for Megatron aka Archforce.
The entire purpose of the earlier poll was to determine how we'd do this and one poll, assuming both were the same, won by a comfortable margin.
Since it's obviously an issue still I'll run Sureshot vs Archforce as an extra in a week or two
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Apr 30, 2021 17:07:14 GMT
Mr McV to the poll thread for a tech spec comparison....... OK! See above. They appear to be the same numbers as the US ones. Martin
|
|
|
Post by Jaymz on Apr 30, 2021 17:11:45 GMT
The entire package represents the toy, not just the figure. I would like to vote for Sureshot or Archforce, I do not want that vote to be misconstrued as a vote for Optimus Prime or Megatron. So putting all four in one poll wouldn't be productive. 4 votes for Optimus, 4 for Sureshot and 6 for Megatron produces a different winner to 8 for Optimus aka Sureshot and 6 for Megatron aka Archforce. I would find this result an acceptable win for Megatron. An 8 Prime/SS vs 6 Megs/AF result doesn't tell me anything, who were people voting for? Prime or Sureshot?
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Apr 30, 2021 17:14:45 GMT
The entire package represents the toy, not just the figure. I agree with you in principle and can't fault your logic, but it would mean we would also have to do the Rotor Force / Rotorbots and Illuminators / Laser Rods twice since they were packaged under different names in US and UK. And some of the Skyscorchers. And so on. Martin
|
|
The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,042
|
Post by The Huff on Apr 30, 2021 17:28:30 GMT
Optimus Prime is not the same as Sureshot and Megatron is not the same as Archforce. Why are they not separate options to vote? This is not an acceptable answer: One Poll Wins! The Forum Has Spoken! Surprising no-one, offering a poll with 2 wrong choices will result in a wrong choice. Please re-run this poll properly with all 4 options. Yes, I thought this would be the way we were going to do it. What I didn't want to do is vote on Prime & Megs one week and then Sureshot & Archforce the next. It's a tricky one - and Phil has the final decision as it's his poll and his hard work making it each week.
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Apr 30, 2021 17:37:06 GMT
Phil has the final decision as it's his poll and his hard work making it each week. Spoilsport. I mean Sureshot. I mean... Martin
|
|
|
Post by Bogatan on Apr 30, 2021 17:43:34 GMT
What about this DOESN'T say Optimus Prime to you? You mean aside from everything that DOES say Onslaught?
|
|
|
Post by Bogatan on Apr 30, 2021 17:59:08 GMT
The entire package represents the toy, not just the figure. I agree with you in principle and can't fault your logic, but it would mean we would also have to do the Rotor Force / Rotorbots and Illuminators / Laser Rods twice since they were packaged under different names in US and UK. And some of the Skyscorchers. And so on. Martin Did they all get extensive new bios and tech specs and sticker modificiations? Actual question, I already cant remember despite most of those only being in the last couple of months. Assuming they didn't then in those cases that just regional variants. And shouldnt be covered anymore than Red foot G1 Optimus Prime or Eagle and Rotor being voted on as well as Thunderclash and Rotorstorm. If concious effort was made to create different characters, then yes they should have been voted on again.
|
|