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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 7, 2010 18:47:02 GMT
If you were to take out Optimus, Prowl and Jazz, who would assume command of the original bunch?
Wheeljack has an 8 on his specs, but he's never taken a leadership role that I'm aware of, so I'd guess that rank (similar Skids) is more of a sign of importance.
So who's next- My natural choice would be Ironhide, Security expert. Mirage may not have the confidence of everyone else, although he's the smartest of the ones left. What about Trailbreaker? Certainly if Ironhide disappeared too, would the other Autos look to him? And you have to admire the way Ratchet handled himself during the whole Shockwave taking over the Ark period. In a situation where the leaders disappeared, I could see Ratchet being a very influential member of the remaining Autobots.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Sept 7, 2010 18:56:20 GMT
If we're talking Marvel, I think you're right about Ratchet. He always seemed to be present standing beside whoever was in command, be they Prime, Prowl or Grimlock, and speaking freely to them as an equal. The Autobot Who's Who in the comic said he was an honorary member the High Command. And God knows, he earnt it.
I think Ratchet would be leader before Ironhide.
Martin
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Gav
Drone
John Travoltage!
Posts: 2,045
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Post by Gav on Sept 7, 2010 18:57:31 GMT
I'd have probably gone with Ratchet as the unwilling leader, with Ironhide as a close secondary advisor. Both characters could do well, although seeing Hound take on a leadership role would be pretty interesting to see.
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Post by Bogatan on Sept 7, 2010 19:09:35 GMT
Largely due to Ratchet and Hound being my only 84 autobots for many years I probably would say one of them. Rathcet most likely even though I didn't read most of ratchets comics till the mid 90s.
Seeing Hound take a leadership role would have been interesting I agree. He alsways seemed to have a lot of unused potential.
Andy
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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 7, 2010 19:12:40 GMT
Yeah, Hound would be a very interesting leader.
What reception would you think Mirage would get if he'd offered himself as leader/ or if he was 'next in line' or whatever. Suspicions of him may come to the surface.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Sept 7, 2010 19:41:53 GMT
What reception would you think Mirage would get if he'd offered himself as leader/ or if he was 'next in line' or whatever. Suspicions of him may come to the surface. Mirage openly expressed doubts about going out of the way to protect humans, and has low enthusiasm for the war, but I don't think Marvel ever suggested he might betray the Autobots. If he were a double-dealer, he wouldn't express his doubts so openly. I think Mirage would become leader in circumstances where the mood in the Autobot camp was becoming less warm towards hostile humans, and where they were beginning to feel they should look after their own kind first and not pick fights on matters of principle. Or if they were looking to do a deal with the Decepticons. Those are probably the only circumstances in which he'd put himself forward. Or maybe not. Maybe he'd also take charge in a situation where everyone realised that subterfuge and infiltration was called for, and they needed a leader who could devise a devious espionage strategy. Martin
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Post by legios on Sept 7, 2010 20:19:55 GMT
Ratchet would be an interesting choice from a storytelling point of view. His status as an honourary member of the High Command would, I'd guess, put him outside the "actual" chain of command - likely his was an unofficial/co-opted advisory role (being as he comes from outside the combat arms. The same would likely go for Wheeljack - he is a high-ranker but very much in the support arms not necessarily in line to command a combat unit.).
The idea of a medical corps officer having to take command of the Autobots on Earth, making hard decisions and trying to keep them alive in the face of Decepticon aggression would have definite story possibilities.
Actually I think assuming that Jazz and Prowl are both taken out then Mirage does starts to look like a credible candidate - especially given that espionage in the Transformers universe is a lot more like Action Spy fiction than anything approaching real-world intelligence work so he probably has a track record in combat situations. I'd agree that the Autobots would have any grounds to suspect him of working against their interests. The only time he tried to reach out to a Decepticon it wasn't to betray the Autobots, it was to persuade the Decepticon of the value of a ceasefire. (Not that you couldn't, if you were a Decepticon wanted to cast a bit of confusion in the Autobot ranks you couldn't twist that more than little - all you need is one paranoid Autobot to be Peter Wright to Mirage's Roger Hollis).
Karl
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 7, 2010 22:29:03 GMT
In the Marvel universe then it's a bit of a given that Ratchet would end up being given the leadership if Prime, Jazz and Prowl were removed.
Mirage would make an interesting choice and one that should it happen, you could see the odds of the Autobots fracturing as a result. Mirage might advocate doing what it took to end the war quickly and you could see some of the more earth-centric Autobots not looking on this favourably.
Andy
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Nigel
Thunderjet
Posts: 4,967
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Post by Nigel on Sept 8, 2010 9:08:56 GMT
As CMO, Ratchet presumably has the authority to remove Optimus Prime (or any other commander) from his position.
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 6,001
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Post by primenova on Sept 8, 2010 11:43:13 GMT
It would be either Ironhide or Trailbreaker - rolls swapped around & Ironhide toy sorted out.
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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 8, 2010 16:17:16 GMT
Interesting discussion re Mirage. I don't think he would actually betray the Autobots, but I think his priorities may well be different to many other Autobots.
I wonder if the Autobots would split into camps, the Warriors following Ironhide, the techs following Ratchet, Mirage would be floating around there, and I can see Trailbreaker, the Autobot cheer-leader, trying to bring the group back together. There would certainly be alot of voices!
In the original line up, there are alot of 7 rankers, I wonder if, in the event of his command team and himself being taken out, Optimus planned for these 7 rankers to form a 'council' if you will, deciding and voting on decisions. So this group: Ironhide, Ratchet, Mirage, Wheeljack and Trailbreaker would decided between them what is best for the Autobots to do. I wouldn't want the casting vote if there was a disagreement! Interesting story possibilities. Who would side with who? Oh, and I forgot Bumblebee didn't I? He (somewhat surprisingly to me) had a rank 7. What would he bring to the leadership team?
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Sept 8, 2010 17:20:47 GMT
Trailbreaker's primary function is Defensive Strategist - if not Ratchet, it'd logically be him since he's the main planner left in the team. Possibly he'd have Ratchet as his senior advisor.
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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 8, 2010 19:06:20 GMT
Yes, the more I think about it the more I'm liking Trailbreaker as a leader.
From Optimus's point of view, after his obvious leadership team, I could see him going for Ironhide, sort of 'naming' him fourth in command simply for his experience. But because of his "defensive prowess" Optimus may put Trailbreaker ahead of the somewhat hot-headed Ratchet, the slightly disillusioned Mirage and brilliant but non-leader Wheeljack in the chain-of-command.
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Post by legios on Sept 8, 2010 20:15:34 GMT
In the original line up, there are alot of 7 rankers, I wonder if, in the event of his command team and himself being taken out, Optimus planned for these 7 rankers to form a 'council' if you will, deciding and voting on decisions. I suppose that there is an outside chance, assuming that he envisaged that they would be in a peacetime situation. If he was expecting the Ark mission to remain on a combat footing the I'd suspect not - democracy is not really a viable way to run a military unit, you need a clearly defined chain of command in the field. The fact that there are a lot of rank 7 individuals in the Ark crew quite possibly reflects that they were picking a lot of individuals who were at or near the top of the chain of command of their respective branches - people like Jazz and Ratchet were probably very senior individuals in their various specialities. Karl
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chrisl
Empty
I still think its the 1990s - when I joined TMUK
Posts: 1,054
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Post by chrisl on Sept 8, 2010 20:30:39 GMT
In the case of the Autobots I think that rather than an individual leader it would be more of a council affair made up of Trailbreaker, Ratchet, Mirage and Wheeljack.
What would be interesting is who would Megatron delegate command to in the absence of his trusted entourage?
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Sept 9, 2010 6:39:43 GMT
the somewhat hot-headed Ratchet Hot-headed? 'Tain't nothing hot-headed about Ratchet in the Marvel continuity. He just keeps stepping in and saving the day single-handedly when all the other Autobots are on the ropes, that's all. I reckon he'd be made leader because (a) he's indispensable for his medical role, and (b) he beats any Decepticons you put him up against. Mind you, he hadn't demonstrated all that at the start of the series, admittedly. If Ratchet had been in G2, he'd have just had to show up on the battlefield and Megatron would throw down his guns and surrender. I reckon, anyway. Martin
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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 9, 2010 13:26:36 GMT
Ratchet certainly became Megatron's nemesis didn't he!
Yes, hot-head is a bit strong, I think I was thinking about his partying and back-talk aspects, Optimus may not have seen those as leadership qualities, although Ratchet's resourcefulness certainly compensates for the partying in my book.
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,072
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Post by The Huff on Sept 9, 2010 19:29:32 GMT
It would be Huffer 'cos he turns into a truck cab just like Optimus so could pull his trailer around better than any one else.
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Sept 9, 2010 22:28:02 GMT
If Ratchet had been in G2, he'd have just had to show up on the battlefield and Megatron would throw down his guns and surrender. I reckon, anyway. Martin The cover text would scream "Surgical STRIKE!".
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 10, 2010 0:19:50 GMT
Damn you two.
I now need to draw this!!!!!
Andy
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Post by jameso on Sept 10, 2010 0:27:14 GMT
I don't think it'd be Ratchet or Wheeljack, to use an example that would be like having one of Dr McCoy or Scotty the captain of the Enterprise, they are both far too useful in their own roles. I can't really magine Ratchet leading the charge to attack Devastator or unleashing the Matrix on Unicron, nor can I imagine him putting his foot down and making command decisions, no matter how many times he went up against Megatron single handedly. Also, are we assuming that all the remaining Autobots are getting together and voting, or is there already some kind of ranking system in place? Personally I reckon it would be Ironhide. A large part of my reasoning of this is that when the Autobots _did_ have to replace Prime they didn't do it with Ratchet, they did it with Grimlock.
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Sept 10, 2010 2:36:03 GMT
I now need to draw this!!!!! YES YOU DO. Also that cover someone on here joked about once, about what Dreamwave mini covers would be like under Marvel - Lazarus at an auction with Megatron, yelling "What am I bid?!", while text screams "BIDDING CON-TEST!".
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 10, 2010 9:54:24 GMT
Okay, I'll add that to the list!
Andy
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Sept 10, 2010 12:11:19 GMT
Right! I've roughed some ideas for Surgical Strike. You the hub decide which version gets done hereAndy
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 10, 2010 13:55:29 GMT
I now need to draw this!!!!! YES YOU DO. Also that cover someone on here joked about once, about what Dreamwave mini covers would be like under Marvel - Lazarus at an auction with Megatron, yelling "What am I bid?!", while text screams "BIDDING CON-TEST!". IIRC that was Garry Bodsworth who made that memorable post. RE: Autobots: there would be no voting system for who would be leader if Prime was taken out. That would be utterly moronic and I'm sure a good editor would bounce that idea right out of the park. The Autobots would surely just go to the chain of command structure and whoever was next in line would take up the post whether they wanted to or not. For a long war of attrition, that would have been sorted out yonks ago for there would be a good chance of losses of command personnel. -Ralph
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Gav
Drone
John Travoltage!
Posts: 2,045
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Post by Gav on Sept 10, 2010 14:46:40 GMT
Yeah that makes sense, but then they couldn't have a voting issue where the cover has all the Autobots lined up in the polling station. The caption/title reading: BALLOT BOTS!
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Sept 10, 2010 15:20:30 GMT
Plus under Budiansky, the senior Autobots did vote in the new leader!
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 10, 2010 17:49:53 GMT
Yes, not one of Uncle Bob's finer moments.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Sept 10, 2010 18:39:47 GMT
Yeah that makes sense, but then they couldn't have a voting issue where the cover has all the Autobots lined up in the polling station. The caption/title reading: BALLOT BOTS! To the Bot-Polls! Plus under Budiansky, the senior Autobots did vote in the new leader! And they ended up going with Grimlock, who is rank 9 and out-ranks everyone except Prime and Prowl on the tech-specs anyway. Oh, except for Jetfire, who stupidly had rank 10. But let's ignore that. Martin
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Post by Shockprowl on Sept 10, 2010 19:05:12 GMT
Yes, techspecs ranks were fascinating, but occasionally got it a little wrong. Jetfire should have been 9.
If there's a definite chain of command, what order would it be, assuming that Wheeljack's 8 is more to do with his function, and Bumblebee is a 6 (which I think best suites his character). I'm going for:
Ironhide Trailbreaker Mirage Wheeljack Ratchet Hound
After that a free for all!
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