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Post by The Doctor on Jan 4, 2019 18:49:01 GMT
'4DX' is using environmental effects to enhance the feeling that you are there! So, going by memory, you need to make them feel like they're in an arid desert, then falling off a mountain, then in front of a camp fire, then witnessing the Uhura dance for real, then in a phaser battle, then wrestling a tiger lady, then mind-melding with a crazy Vulcan and re-living your most painful memories, then experiencing the aroma of the bridge of a Klingon Bird of Prey, then chased by an evil god, then campfire time again with surround-sound sing-along. Easy. Martin I know how to do it. -Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 5, 2019 16:43:50 GMT
2019 also marks 30 years of...the Borg!
I rewatched 'Q Who' today and it still holds up as a thrilling piece of television.
-Ralph
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 5, 2019 16:45:47 GMT
"I wouldn't let him."
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Post by Toph on Jan 5, 2019 17:07:37 GMT
Looking for a good time? Call 1-800-ASSIMILATE
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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 6, 2019 8:26:43 GMT
2019 also marks 30 years of...the Borg! I rewatched 'Q Who' today and it still holds up as a thrilling piece of television. -Ralph That episode blew my mind way back when (I simply refuse to except it's thirty years though). What was Q up to? Just having larks at Jean Luc's expense? Or giving The Federation advanced warning of the threat to come...?
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 6, 2019 11:24:27 GMT
It's in the novels. Ask me how.
-Ralph
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Post by Toph on Jan 6, 2019 15:20:36 GMT
Supposedly, It's a paradox.
• Q alerts the Federation to the Borg by sending Picard to them, where they encounter a Cube. (Q Who) • That same cube journeys to the Alpha Quadrant, where it is destroyed in Earth's Orbit. (BoBW) • The Collective sends another Cube to Earth, where the Borg time travel to the 2060s. The Enterprise follows, stopping them. (First Contact) • Some drones survive in antarctica, and sends a signal to the collective, alerting them to Earth in the 2160s. (Enterprise) • The Borg dispatch a Cube to the Alpha Quadrant, which is encountered by the Enterprise (Q Who)
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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 6, 2019 15:29:59 GMT
Woaw. Man, that's bonkers.... It's in the novels. Ask me how. -Ralph However, I'm compelled to ask- How?
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 6, 2019 16:43:03 GMT
Remind me when I am not so lurgied up.
-Ralph
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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 6, 2019 17:17:12 GMT
Remind me when I am not so lurgied up. -Ralph You got it!
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 6, 2019 18:50:54 GMT
Less of a paradox and more of a causal loop.
Its never said either way but I always thought the Cube in BoBW was the one rummaging around the Neutral Zone rather than being the same one the Enterprise encountered in Q Who. Hence Starfleet being caught on the backfoot by the Borg's swift arrival.
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Post by Toph on Jan 6, 2019 19:59:32 GMT
There's honestly no real reason all three aren't the same cube.
On a related side note, Given that we see Klingon and Cardassian drones, I headcanon that the Borg have been a bigger presence in the Alpha and Beta Quadrant than the Federation have been aware of. I mean, it's obvious the Romulans were unaware, too. But those three empires seem to serve a pretty big buffer. Not to say that the Klingons and Cardassians had any greater awareness of the Borg before the Wolf 359 incident. It just seems a bit improbable that the Borg in First Contact would have Cardassians and Klingons among them, otherwise.
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Post by drmick on Jan 8, 2019 18:21:14 GMT
There's honestly no real reason all three aren't the same cube. On a related side note, Given that we see Klingon and Cardassian drones, I headcanon that the Borg have been a bigger presence in the Alpha and Beta Quadrant than the Federation have been aware of. I mean, it's obvious the Romulans were unaware, too. But those three empires seem to serve a pretty big buffer. Not to say that the Klingons and Cardassians had any greater awareness of the Borg before the Wolf 359 incident. It just seems a bit improbable that the Borg in First Contact would have Cardassians and Klingons among them, otherwise. They could have just been recently assimilated on that journey to Earth. The Enterprise-E crew quickly got full Borgification in the movie. The Borg resurrected Kirk just hours after his death in Generations don't forget. And then I think killed them all.
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Post by Toph on Jan 8, 2019 18:47:34 GMT
Well, in order to do that, on it's way to Earth, the FC Cube would have had to go through both Cardassian and Klingon space. I can't remember if it was during the Klingon/Cardassian War, or the Dominion War. But in either case, a *lot* of Federation attention was on both territories during both wars (They were heavily watching both territories in the K/C war, and the Klingons wouldn't keep a borg attack to themselves during the dominion war). This cube was on a b-line straight to earth, and seemed to come out of nowhere, unexpectedly. It seemed to need to get there ASAP.
In contrast, the BoBW Cube meandered and explored a bit on it's way to Earth. It didn't seem to be in any major hurry.
I think given the time frame, a cube barreling through either Cardassian or Klingon space would have both been noticed by Starfleet, and been a major disrupting influence on either war (whichever one it is.) I think this cube either did not come from those directions (and as Starfleet sent Picard to the Romulan NZ to keep him out of it, it didn't come from there, either), or it bypassed them altogether and transwarped straight from the delta quadrant into federation space.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 8, 2019 22:20:04 GMT
The First Contact Cube could have used a transwarp corridor laid down by the first Cube (maybe even why it was seemingly meandering through the alpha quadrent) to approach Earth more rapidly and to bypass large portions of Klingon or Cardassian space.
Agree that the assimilated Klingon and Cardassian were probably incidental assimilations. Or even evidence of the Borg starting to make wider inroads into those races territories?
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Post by drmick on Jan 8, 2019 23:01:45 GMT
The First Contact Cube could have used a transwarp corridor laid down by the first Cube (maybe even why it was seemingly meandering through the alpha quadrent) to approach Earth more rapidly and to bypass large portions of Klingon or Cardassian space. Agree that the assimilated Klingon and Cardassian were probably incidental assimilations. Or even evidence of the Borg starting to make wider inroads into those races territories? I so hated all that transwarp nonsense Voyager introduced and kind of retconned.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 8, 2019 23:08:07 GMT
Indeed. An interesting idea to have a few wormholes they made here and there but an entire network giving them instant travel across the galaxy? If so why haven't they send a fleet to the Federation yet??
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Post by Toph on Jan 8, 2019 23:47:58 GMT
Voyager ruined the Borg in lots of ways. But IMO, so did First Contact.
I never particularly liked the rubber body suits, and I really didn't like injecting people and they start growing metal. (The injections starting the process, like in TNG is fine) I get that for the movie, they needed to move things along, and I could overlook it for that reason for a narrative standpoint, but it was also one of the things Voyager ran into the ground.
And the Queen. I haaaated the concept. That ruined the borg more than anything else. It pretty much sapped everything that was terrifying about them. In TNG, the Borg were beyond concepts such as malevolence. They weren't evil. They didn't care about morals. They were a force of nature. But the Queen... she was unmistakably evil. The borg were now an extension of her, and the instrument of her will. Voyager amped her up, to cartoonish levels.
First Contact was a great movie, but it ruined the Borg.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 9, 2019 8:10:50 GMT
A figurehead 'queen' designed on the fly to tempt/torment Data (after all wouldn't they have assimilated emotional and psychological warfare from their component races too?) was an interesting idea, but having one entity being that crucial to Borg functioning doesn't really fit with them.
I quite liked the idea of nanoprobes as assimilators that got individuals compliant and hooked into the Collective swiftly that you then built onto. Fast, efficient and ruthlessly scary. Everything the Borg are. They could even be a technology acquired by the Borg between BoBW and FC. The Federation were experimenting with nantes after all so may have done this to themselves..
That said Voyager and Enterprise best them into the ground with over use and how easy they could be altered or resisted (Dr Phlox bring able to fight them off by willpower and then his magical 22nd century light and sound medical chamber for example was just nonsense).
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Post by drmick on Jan 9, 2019 17:04:09 GMT
I agree that Voyager ruined the Borg. But paradoxically, for me, they are probably the best Voyager episodes.
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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 9, 2019 17:54:54 GMT
Not seen Voyager past the first series.
But I agree with what many of you are saying. I love First Contact, but yes, the idea of a Borg Queen seemed off then, and seems damn weird now. Too... non-alieny. Too obvious. Too... Not-Borg.
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Post by Benn on Jan 9, 2019 18:31:17 GMT
Too Aliens-y? <Hisses from an egg-sac>
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Post by Toph on Jan 9, 2019 18:54:33 GMT
I agree that Voyager ruined the Borg. But paradoxically, for me, they are probably the best Voyager episodes. I kinda have to agree with that. Some of them were downright brilliant uses of Borg (like Chekotay finding that deassemilated community. That's just great Trek, and an awesome borg story). In general, Janeway vs The Queen were fun episodes. But not great Borg stuff.
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Post by Toph on Jan 20, 2019 19:40:35 GMT
50+ years Seven series (with three more in pre-production) 33 seasons 762 episodes (so far) 13 movies
Star Trek has produced a *lot* of content. A lot of it excellent. But it's also given us some real stinkers, too. I wanna set up a poll to find out which one the hub community thinks is the absolute worst. But it wouldn't be subjective if I only put up what *I* think is the worst. Also, I can't remember all of it! It's easy enough to remember when Beverly got boinked by a ghost, and when Paris and Janeway became newts, did the nasty, and had newtons. but a bit more forgettable is the time hippies decided to execute Wesley for walking on the grass!
So, movies included, what are y'all's personal picks for the worst episodes? The episodes that you always skip, or love the hell out of them because they're just laughably awful? "The Worst of Trek" is not a criticism of how you choose to enjoy it, after all.
What springs immediately to mind for me are Genesis- TNG Sub Rosa- TNG Masks- TNG Threshold- Voyager Anything Mirrorverse- DS9 The racist one where the misogynists wanted to marry Yar- TNG The Augment trilogy- Enterprise STV: The Final Frontier ST: Insurrection ST Into Darkness
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jan 20, 2019 20:14:15 GMT
My trouble with this question is that there are some casts I find watchable and likeable even when they're in sub-standard episodes, and other casts that annoy and bore me even when the scripts are OK. Which is why I gave up on Voyager after a couple of seasons.
TNG and DS9 are the only series I've seen every episode of, because they're the ones I liked the casts of. To me, Patrick Stewart makes almost any scene he's in good to watch.
So I could name my least favourite TNG and DS9 episodes, but I'd get more enjoyment re-watching them than anything with the Voyager cast. I can take or leave the original series until The Wrath of Khan onwards, which is where I start being a fan.
Martin
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Post by Toph on Jan 20, 2019 20:48:36 GMT
I agree with that sentiment completely. Bad/worst doesn't mean there isn't something about it that's enjoyable. It's all subjective. Just because you're enjoying an episode, doesn't mean you're enjoying it for the "right" (ie: intended) reasons.
Enterprise stays pretty neutral through out. Aside from Bakula's weird performance, it's more or less consistent through out (which kinda surprised me on my recent watch through). While there are no "The Inner Light" caliber episodes, there's also not really any "Sub Rosa" level, either. They're all just kinda middle ground bland.
But like I said, this isn't intended to judge anyone's preferences or how they do or do not enjoy an episode. "Star Trek" and "Into Darkness" are not good movies, but I still enjoy watching them more than quite a few other objectively better films. "Worst" in this case is however you define it. I'm looking for the episodes that keep continuously popping up. Or the just mediocre episode that someone makes a compelling case for why it is objectively bad.
Everyone has an opinion, and every opinion on this is different, and that's what I wanna know!
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jan 20, 2019 20:56:51 GMT
Well, it's got to be Voyager as a whole for me, then, because TNG and DS9 at their worst never made me consider dropping the series. The presence of Janeway and Chakotay and Neelix and Harry Kim on screen just made me want to switch the TV off. I stuck with it for a while because it was Star Trek, and I kept giving it one more chance, but those are hours of my life I'd like back, please.
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 20, 2019 21:09:36 GMT
As a die-hard Trek fan I love it all, even when it's rubbish!
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 20, 2019 21:15:09 GMT
That's the spirit!
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 20, 2019 23:03:53 GMT
It is true. It took him many years to face up to Enterprise but when he did he loved the worst of it best!
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