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Post by Bogatan on Dec 20, 2019 17:49:36 GMT
I was never so glad at anything as I was when they left the Kazon behind. It's like they took all the most boring qualities of the klingons, cardassians, and romulans, threw it all in a blender, then wrapped it up in an extremely ugly, slightly (and unintentionally) racist package. There was nothing redeemable about them as they were shown. And Seska, would have been a much more interesting character if she stayed a member of Voyager's crew, instead of betraying them. No one likes her, no one trusts her, and the feeling is mutual. But she wants to get home just as badly as the rest of them, and cooperation is the only option she has. *sigh* Just watched the Seska episode. Approaching the half way point of season 1 and having clearly blown the original Starfleet/maquis conflict, heres a chance to reboot but they go for the bland option, its basically a good episode, just that ending. Make Carey the traitor, but dont have him escape. Leave him imprisoned and set him up as a disruptive element. Seska meanwhile, is still uncovered as a Cardasian spy, but has done nothing wrong since joining Voyager so cant be locked up too, but is still now mistrusted by everyone. More conflict. Neither end up with the Kazon so they dont have to be continually brought back for an impobably long time considering Voyagers one way route to Earth.
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 23, 2019 21:22:31 GMT
Oh god, Janeway on the holodeck? So hard to resist the next episode button.
Oh and they've remembered the maquis might not be happy. Thats nice.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 23, 2019 21:41:31 GMT
It doesn't matter. This is a Starfleet ship...
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Post by Toph on Dec 23, 2019 21:51:29 GMT
Oh god, Janeway on the holodeck? So hard to resist the next episode button. Oh and they've remembered the maquis might not be happy. Thats nice. I don't think the Voyager writers ever understood how holograms work.
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 23, 2019 21:59:59 GMT
Learning Curve really should have come earlier in the season (minus Janeway ever going near a holodeck). Though the writers appear to have forgotten that Tuvok was serving with the maquis.
At the same time it underlines the pointlessness of the whole concept. Culturally theres no difference between the two sides. Or at least what there is is so recent thats its relevance should be pretty limited. Which is exactly how its played out. All your left with are some characters that dont like being part of a strict command structure. TNG already covered the same ground better with Ro, Barclay and cultral differences with Worf.
A far more worthwhile approach would have been to just have a chunk of the crew incredibly angry at Janeway for choosing to strand them. It would have been far more realistic, especially if the crew had included a large group or recent graduates or even cadets.
And again if energy supplies are so low why the hell is the paris pool room in constant use.
So glad Im alternating these with DS9.
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 23, 2019 22:01:32 GMT
I...prefer Voyager to DS9.
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 23, 2019 22:09:24 GMT
Im glad someone does. I'd be very sad to think no one loved voyager. It just.... frustrates me so much.
I didnt realise Learning Curve was the last episode of the season. So they literally went a full season without addressing the show supposed central premise. (aside from a few lines here and there mostly in context of Torres getting chief engineer and Seeska being Cardasian)
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 23, 2019 22:23:24 GMT
In better news. Sisko has a goatee and has gotten all intense about stuff. Good DS9 begins here.
Also 1 month till Picard. Yay!
... just .... 10 seasons and 3... 4 movies to watch by then.
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Post by Toph on Dec 24, 2019 8:53:14 GMT
Learning Curve really should have come earlier in the season (minus Janeway ever going near a holodeck). Though the writers appear to have forgotten that Tuvok was serving with the maquis. At the same time it underlines the pointlessness of the whole concept. Culturally theres no difference between the two sides. Or at least what there is is so recent thats its relevance should be pretty limited. Which is exactly how its played out. All your left with are some characters that dont like being part of a strict command structure. TNG already covered the same ground better with Ro, Barclay and cultral differences with Worf. A far more worthwhile approach would have been to just have a chunk of the crew incredibly angry at Janeway for choosing to strand them. It would have been far more realistic, especially if the crew had included a large group or recent graduates or even cadets. And again if energy supplies are so low why the hell is the paris pool room in constant use. So glad Im alternating these with DS9. Wait 'til you get to the Equinox episodes!
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 24, 2019 10:10:37 GMT
Im glad someone does. I'd be very sad to think no one loved voyager. It just.... frustrates me so much. I didnt realise Learning Curve was the last episode of the season. So they literally went a full season without addressing the show supposed central premise. (aside from a few lines here and there mostly in context of Torres getting chief engineer and Seeska being Cardasian) The 37's is meant to be the end of S1 but was moved to S2 along with other episodes due to scheduling changes back in the day. This is why S1 just stops with no finale. Confusion reigns to this day as to when s1 actually 'ends'. -Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 29, 2019 15:02:36 GMT
Its odd that the start of season 2 is really the end of season 1 because the first three episodes are a real step up in quality. Even the Kazon one.
Then its back to normal with Kess is ready for a baby.
And ho have a never noticed the MC Hammer joke in DS9 Explorers?
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Post by Toph on Dec 29, 2019 15:40:45 GMT
Voyager can go from 100 to 0 in the span of two episodes. One episode can be about the moral implications of medical knowledge gained from inhumane experaments and whether using it validates the methods or victims, and the next can be Threshold.
Voyager can take the absolute stupidest concept like Tuvix and make an absolute stunning piece of Trek, and then turn around and ruin an amazing concept just by being Voyager.
Captain Janeway's Wild Ride. There is no middle ground on the Space Party Bus.
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 29, 2019 16:28:56 GMT
I think Im being so stunned by it because I have never binge watched Voyager. I never even bothered to watch the daily repeat runs. I watched it weekly when it first broadcast and thats about it. Watching back to back and or alternating with DS9 is quite the experience.
I'm looking forward to Tuvix, but know it will just leave me annoyed that they didn't keep him.
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 29, 2019 16:36:10 GMT
Tuvix had to die!
-Ralph
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Post by Toph on Dec 29, 2019 17:56:04 GMT
The annoying part of Tuvix to me wasn't that they didn't keep him, it's that, as usual, there were no lasting effects.
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 29, 2019 18:14:40 GMT
He's not gone so long as we remember him.
-Ralph
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Post by Toph on Dec 29, 2019 18:46:26 GMT
We can get him back if Neelix and Tuvok hurry up and get busy!
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 30, 2019 19:04:43 GMT
Kes and the Doctor are great fun.
Kes and Neelix are boring, annoying and creepy as fuck.
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Post by Toph on Dec 30, 2019 19:37:37 GMT
Kes and Neelix had zero chemistry together, putting aside the age difference and forcing a jealousy into Neelix that just reads inauthentic to the character.
Which says something because both of them had at least some kind of chemistry with every other character in the show.
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 31, 2019 16:16:10 GMT
And somehow they decided ditching Kes was the way to go and Neelix went on Neelixing for another 4 years.
Voyager has just lost crewman Bendera. Shame they never though to build up the roles of a handful of supporting actors so or just had them present far more regularly might have made scenes like this more effective.
With a crew of 150 and no replacements available I ve always thought the crew should have become far more familiar to the audience than they did.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 31, 2019 16:45:42 GMT
I believe the problem was less Kes and more her actress. Ralph can explain better.
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 31, 2019 16:52:35 GMT
The only Trek main castmember to be done for a sexual offence! And drug and other crime issues.
There are reasons you will never see her at a con or mentioned in official Trek related stuff.
See also why Stephen Collins was not notably not mentioned in any official publicity for the 40th anniversary of The Motion Picture.
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 31, 2019 17:07:26 GMT
Beejesus! Alliances really is an offensively horrible episode.
Lets side with the slave owners because they seem more like us. What could possibly go wrong?
Then Janeway uses her choice to side with a group who for centuries clearly thought slavery was okay as a reason to confirm her own bias that no alliance can be relied on. If not for this bit maybe I could watch it as oh well they learned not to judge books by covers or something, but nah, they just ignore how stupid and wrong the choice was.
Just... urghh!
And its more annyoying because the episode starts with one of the rare occasions they address the issues of life in the delta quadrant
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Post by Toph on Dec 31, 2019 17:22:09 GMT
According to wikipedia, the execs dumped her by not renewing her contract, in order to bring Jeri Ryan in on the same budget. That's the official reasons, and unlike Jeri/Kate, I've yet to hear about anything behind the scenes. So now I'm curious.
Her arrest records (indecent exposure, domestic violence, vehicle related offences) start around 2012. I really hope she got the help she needed.
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 31, 2019 17:59:22 GMT
It sounds familiar but it might just be Ralph mentioning it before.
Stuart said on Twitter that they planned to replace Harry Kim but he was on some most beautiful people list of 1996 or 97 so was kept and Kess was cut instead.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Dec 31, 2019 19:02:40 GMT
I honestly can't remember if Jennifer Lien had difficulties before or after she finished as Kez. I think I want to say after, but there might be stuff I'm unaware of.
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Post by Bogatan on Dec 31, 2019 19:24:54 GMT
It does seem like a weirdly unhappy set compared to the other shows.
Even at the time there seemed to be a constant drip of slightly grumpy qoutes coming out of interviews.
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Post by Toph on Dec 31, 2019 22:41:07 GMT
The stars were just against Voyager all the way through.
I think the only reason it lasted a "full" seven seasons, is because it was about the only thing the UPN network had to offer. They kept cancelling every other show they'd try.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 1, 2020 2:00:45 GMT
My favourite Star Trek episodes Yesterday's Enterprise and The Best Of Both Worlds are THIRTY YEARS OLD this year!
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Post by Toph on Jan 1, 2020 3:24:10 GMT
Oh bloody hell I feel old
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