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Post by Bogatan on Jan 12, 2020 22:16:01 GMT
Does it hide a baby bump? She looks slightly plump.
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Post by Toph on Jan 12, 2020 22:48:09 GMT
It does. Just like Crusher, it was to hide her pregnancy.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 12, 2020 22:53:07 GMT
With Dr. Crusher it successfully obscured, But after B'elanna that thought occurred.
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Post by Toph on Jan 13, 2020 6:11:17 GMT
While watching B5: Crusade, and with Voyager being a major topic ATM, I've been thinking.
And I think that TNG has given set designers a very unrealistic idea about how much available space there is inside spaceships. The E-D was huge. It was canonically a luxury liner, and it's personal quarters were small apartments. That was the point. But since TNG, it seems most scifi spaceships tend to have large personal quarters with only one person in them, no matter how small the ship. (With a few exceptions, like the Defiant, which was massively inconsistent in internal volume in it's own ways) Voyager was about the same overall size as Kirk's Enterprise. It's shape gave it more internal volume, and it had about half as much crew, but even still, it was way too big inside. Janeway's office was almost as big as the E-D's entire bridge. The bridge is, until the reboot and Disco, the largest bridge set in trek. But even if the ship's design does give it a lot more room to work with, Voyager is still a small ship. Junior officers like Tom and Harry logically should be room mates. (I would think everyone except Janeway and Chakotay would be doubled, and that would probably be a luxury compaired to other ships like the Excelsior) Discovery isn't as bad on the crew quarters, but corridors, labs, and the Bridge are all massive for a ship that has less usible internal volume than TOS Enterprise.
And this isn't exclusive to Star Trek. It seems like most set designers have a hard time understanding that their characters' living spaces are limited.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jan 13, 2020 6:53:47 GMT
I liked B5 season 2's 'A Race Through Dark Places' in which Sheridan is infuriated by Earthforce ordering him and Ivanova to move to smaller quarters to save money, or else pay rent out of their salary to keep their existing larger quarters, and he eventually gets round it by diverting money from the station's defence budget to pay their rent on grounds that they can't defend the station without having had a good night's sleep.
Martin
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Post by Toph on Jan 13, 2020 7:51:02 GMT
Yeah that all vibed very realistic to me. About the most realistic thing I ever seen in a show set in space.
Star Trek: Fantastical people dealing with fantastical b***s*** in a fantastical setting.
Stargate: Real people dealing with fantastical b***s*** in a fantastical setting.
Babylon 5: Real people dealing with the same b***s*** in a fantastical setting.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 13, 2020 10:51:53 GMT
The rollercoaster turbolifts in a GIANT EMPTY CAVERN on Discovery and the Enterprise in that show are ludicrous. They don't fit with the interior or exterior designs for those ships. Everything else seems so well thought out that the GIANT EMPTY CAVERNS make no sense!!! Why would you have such large useless spaces? Why put your turbolifts on rollercoasters? ? -Ralph
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Post by Toph on Jan 13, 2020 15:41:41 GMT
That bothered me until I realized the negative space are the corridors and living spaces. We're getting an x-ray view of the turbolift system, of sorts.
I don't particularly like it, myself because even still, it doesn't conform to how the ship would work. Also it doesn't translate as exciting and unique like intended, it just looks weird, like there are just massive gaping unused space in the turbolift system.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 14, 2020 17:44:27 GMT
Living Witness is my favourite episode of Voyager or at least the first episode that comes to mind. Its almost certainly not a coincidence that its an episode that barely features the main cast.
Its mindboggling to me that a show that kept going back to the Kazon never bothered revisiting back up EMHs futures adventures. I honestly expected it would be used as the story structure for the final episode.
No doubt foolishly it has occurred to me that future EMH could be arriving back in the alpha quadrant right about the time Discovery arrives.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 14, 2020 19:43:31 GMT
The rollercoaster turbolifts in a GIANT EMPTY CAVERN on Discovery and the Enterprise in that show are ludicrous. They don't fit with the interior or exterior designs for those ships. Everything else seems so well thought out that the GIANT EMPTY CAVERNS make no sense!!! Why would you have such large useless spaces? Why put your turbolifts on rollercoasters? ? -Ralph Id forgotten about those shots. Very weird.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 14, 2020 19:44:53 GMT
Grr. I just rememberd that while Living Witness didn't get a follow up, the next episode, Demons, did. Grrr.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 14, 2020 20:37:41 GMT
The follow up to Demons is fab though.
-Ralph
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Post by Toph on Jan 14, 2020 21:17:00 GMT
It really is a genius bait and switch style story.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 14, 2020 23:16:02 GMT
In its own right its fab, but in the broader sense it its the perfect example of why Voyager frustrates the hell out of me.
They take a great idea and.. waste is too harsh, but I would have been happy to see more of them.
I feel like the lesson they took from the first couple of years was that reoccuring stuff was bad when the lesson should have been the Kazon and Cardassian spy lady were bad ideas done badly.
As the show goes on it starts coming up with some good uses for the ship alone and far from home. But they're all chucked away.
The year of hell could have made for an amazing season long or half season long arc. Instead its to episodes and a big ass reset button. Even the Borg are only two episodes proper. As I mentioned last week if the borg space story had ben extended over another couple of episodes Kes chucking them 10 years closer to Earth would have been a neat way to wrap the story. Future EMH, nothing. The liquid metal clones, one episode follow up.
Im now watching Night which again would have made a great background setting for at least a short run, if nothing else the darker lighting during the episode make the show a lot nicer to look at. But its going to be another one and done. I wouldnt mind so much but the stories in between tend just to be generic stories that could be done on any trek or against the setting from the more interesting episodes.
Its the same with characters. Seska stunk up the place and after her the only significant reoccuring characters have been horny Vucan and Mum and baby. And they're hardly Nog, Roms or Leetas. They aren't even Morns.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 14, 2020 23:21:50 GMT
Besides the obvious differences of approach between Voyager and DS9 I can imagine Voyagers peeps wouldnt have wanted to engage in a multi episode arc for Year of Hell at the same time as DS9 was kicking in to top gear with its Dominion War arc.
Still its frustrates me because the year of hell was set up really well in the Curious Case of Kesjamin Button episodes.
Ive never seen Benjamin Button I assume the plots identical.
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Post by Toph on Jan 14, 2020 23:31:27 GMT
And they just flat out ignore the mom so badly that it's a common fan beliefe that she was killed off, while Neelix and Seven raise Naomi.
Said before and will again, Paramount really needed to keep a large group of extras on retainer to just use over and over. They didn't even need to "cast" the entire crew with extras, just like 60 or so. Assign them all character names and call them in when they need to fill out scenes. If X extra is unavailable, then call in Y. TNG, DS9, SG1, SGA, SGU all managed to have familiar background faces consistently week after week.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 14, 2020 23:47:34 GMT
Yup.
I have been wondering if anyone ever did a head count of all the crew extras on Voyager (I assume the answer must be yes).
Its the one show that should have had a set crew. A max of about 180, I just watched an episode where the ship was scanned and I think 148 people were onboard. Theres got to have been considerably more people used than that, but who knows, they are all almost always so in the background that they are barely visible.
Which I suppose might have been deliberate. TNG had over 1000 crew and a constant stream of crew rotation. When a show is expected to have more episodes than crew and with no excuse for new faces it would be very easy to burn through the entire suppose crew compliment in a couple of years if they are regularly front and centre. Still the fact the show never developed an O'Brien or even Ogawa, or Barclay really made it hard to buy into this being a small crew trapped together for seven years.
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Post by Toph on Jan 15, 2020 0:58:06 GMT
They even imorted their Barclay from another show. The show had more reoccurring Alpha Quadrant characters than it did reoccurring crew.
Familiar faces would also make the show's casualty count more impactful.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 15, 2020 18:55:08 GMT
And Janeways does it again. B'elanna refuses treatment from a Cardassian hologram. Janeway ignores her. Unlike with Tuvix she has to face B'elanna afterwards. She gets all pissy because B'elanna wont immediately put it behind her.
And then refusing to take any responsibility for her actions she makes the Doctor decide if the Cardassian hologram should be deleted.
Shes not just insane, shes a 2020 Tory MP.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 15, 2020 21:12:33 GMT
Who Mourns for Morn.
I love that they interupted the Dominion War to do this.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 16, 2020 16:38:18 GMT
So dispite most of what Ive written I am actually enjoying Voyager (mostly). Season 4 onwards feels like they finally got to grasps with the concept. Things tend not to out stay there welcomes, other than the holodeck program of the season. Then theres Seven of Nine. Im struggling to think of anything any other trek show has attempted that can match it for cynicism. Enterprises decontamination chamber and Trip cant sleep sessions maybe, but they always seemed to be a reaction to the success of Seven. I mean this is only the second or third shot after Seven is deborgified. Micheal Bay would be proud. Thankfully Sevens writing and performance went far beyond the costume, she really is the best character on the show. But its still kind of depressing that they felt they needed to do it. Then I read about Mulgrews response to Jeri Ryans arrival and I get a whole other reason to dislike Janeway.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 16, 2020 17:02:58 GMT
Ive just discovered Patrick Stewart performed A Christmas Carol last month.
I think Im kind of relieved because I would have been pissed off at not being able to go or done many stupid things in order to attend if, somehow, I had been able to get a ticket.
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Post by Toph on Jan 16, 2020 17:05:33 GMT
Jeri Ryan has said a few times that having to do scenes with Mulgrew gave her severe anxiety attacks.
Which I think is why we see far less interactions between Seven and Janeway in the later seasons.
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Post by Toph on Jan 16, 2020 17:17:29 GMT
After having rewatched Babylon 5, I'm remembering why I was so disappointed in DS9 back in the day.
Even though DS9 is arguably the best written trek series, B5 does the waypoint space station bits so much better. It also built the tension up to major conflicts better.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 16, 2020 17:28:29 GMT
Jeri Ryan has said a few times that having to do scenes with Mulgrew gave her severe anxiety attacks. Which I think is why we see far less interactions between Seven and Janeway in the later seasons. I do wonder if that piece of information has been affecting my view of scenes between the two of them. Theres an almost gaslighting quality to some of them which I dont remember getting before. Then again I've never really disliked Janeway before this rewatch, I just thought her character was a bit all over the place. Now Im struggling to cope with her at all so it might be unrelated.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 16, 2020 17:37:35 GMT
Voyager is TWENTY FIVE YEARS OLD today. Caretaker aired in the US on 16th of January 1995.
I remember when it was the TOS 25th anniversary (a big deal at the time with much tat released).
I feel ANCIENT.
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 16, 2020 17:38:56 GMT
After having rewatched Babylon 5, I'm remembering why I was so disappointed in DS9 back in the day. Even though DS9 is arguably the best written trek series, B5 does the waypoint space station bits so much better. It also built the tension up to major conflicts better. I know I prefer DS9. Ive rewatched it mutliple times against B5 which Ive rewatched as far as season 4 once or maybe twice. Having said that I cant deny that its a better show in a lot of respects. But then they are very different shows so dispite similarities they can be hard to compare.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jan 16, 2020 18:12:22 GMT
Ive just discovered Patrick Stewart performed A Christmas Carol last month. I think Im kind of relieved because I would have been pissed off at not being able to go or done many stupid things in order to attend if, somehow, I had been able to get a ticket. The Patrick Stewart film of A Christmas Carol remains readily and cheaply available on DVD. Martin
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 16, 2020 18:35:17 GMT
Yeah but he only plays one character in that.
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 17, 2020 16:33:41 GMT
Gah! Has there ever been a good boxing episode of any TV series?
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