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Post by The Doctor on Jun 28, 2019 19:36:39 GMT
SEVEN ALL!!!
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 28, 2019 20:01:49 GMT
When did Apeface and Snapdragon become a duo?? Or Blitzing and Astritrain?? I said Decepticon toy range duos. They are duos on the catalogues. But I believe Astrotrain and Blitzwing were partners in crime in the series 2 cartoons, and the Horrorcons worked together in stories like 'All in the Minds'. Martin
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 28, 2019 20:22:22 GMT
They were more rivals in the cartoons. Didn't necessarily appear together.
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jun 28, 2019 20:48:51 GMT
They were more rivals in the cartoons. Didn't necessarily appear together. Astrotrain & Blitzwing were an amusing duo in 'Prime Target'. Did Flywheels & Battletrap ever actually meet each other ouside of the Japanese Headmaster cartoon? The obvious Autobot duo (storywise) were Sideswipe & Sunstreaker - and that was always criminally underused everywhere! Also, I'm sure the Decepticon Powermasters were slighly larger toys retail/pricewise to make up for them being 2 Vs 3.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 29, 2019 1:34:31 GMT
Did Flywheels & Battletrap ever actually meet each other ouside of the Japanese Headmaster cartoon? Yeah, 'City of Fear', just before Magnus whacked Flywheels with a girder and took him prisoner. And fighting under Carnivac's leadership in 'Time Wars'. Martin
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Post by Shockprowl on Jun 29, 2019 7:14:09 GMT
Did Flywheels & Battletrap ever actually meet each other ouside of the Japanese Headmaster cartoon? Yeah, 'City of Fear', just before Magnus whacked Flywheels with a girder and took him prisoner. Martin It always puzzled and annoyed me, that Battletrap did not appear with Flywheels and Trypticon in the final battle.
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jun 29, 2019 7:41:40 GMT
Did Flywheels & Battletrap ever actually meet each other ouside of the Japanese Headmaster cartoon? Yeah, 'City of Fear', just before Magnus whacked Flywheels with a girder and took him prisoner. And fighting under Carnivac's leadership in 'Time Wars'. Martin Oh yes, of course. Maybe I forgot because they didn't introduce themselves as the 'new invincible toys of the week!' They would have advertised themselves wrong anyway.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 29, 2019 16:19:39 GMT
OK, so according to TFWiki Darkwing transforms into a Panavia Tornado GR1 fighter jet, and Dreadwind transforms into a General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon jet - Earth jets invented in the 1970s. Like Getaway, Joyride and Slapdash their first mission in the comics is to Nebulos. They were said to be looking for Scorponok, but who sent them? Ratbat? Could Ratbat have given them those disguises, knowing a bit about Earth and assuming that the same disguises would work on any planet populated by humans? Martin
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 29, 2019 16:42:20 GMT
I must call in The Kaptain legios to explain how the underwing mounts are facing forward still however the swing wings are configured.
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Dezzeh
Thunderjet
Wait, what?
Posts: 4,822
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Post by Dezzeh on Jun 29, 2019 17:40:13 GMT
Just managed to pick up a Masterforce Buster for relatively cheap, haven’t handled one of these guys in nearly 20 years and I remember them being quite fun, Darkwing more so admittedly.
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 29, 2019 17:44:26 GMT
I am reeling from the shock that Darkwing and Dreadwind's alt modes are Earth planes. I thought they were just generic Space Jets.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 29, 2019 18:47:11 GMT
I am reeling from the shock that Darkwing and Dreadwind's alt modes are Earth planes. I thought they were just generic Space Jets. For clarification, the real ones don't combine. Martin
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 29, 2019 19:06:51 GMT
Outrageous. Why not?
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jun 29, 2019 19:17:18 GMT
We'll let our expert, The Kaptain, clarify if they can or not.
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 29, 2019 19:21:26 GMT
I demand answers. Particularly to the swing wing question, that's a really good point.
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jun 29, 2019 19:23:52 GMT
OK, so according to TFWiki Darkwing transforms into a Panavia Tornado GR1 fighter jet, and Dreadwind transforms into a General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon jet - Earth jets invented in the 1970s. Like Getaway, Joyride and Slapdash their first mission in the comics is to Nebulos. They were said to be looking for Scorponok, but who sent them? Ratbat? Could Ratbat have given them those disguises, knowing a bit about Earth and assuming that the same disguises would work on any planet populated by humans? Martin Assuming Scorponok and his troops left Cybertron for parts unknown after Megatron's Decepticons got back in contact its not an unreasonable assumption that Dreadwing called in on Earth first...
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 29, 2019 19:34:54 GMT
Why would you ever want to swap two fighter jets for one fighter jet? A jet which is far less streamlined and has one of the engines pointing forward? According to Dreadwind's Transformers Universe entry, "In jet mode, powered by his high-performance Powermaster engine, Dreadwind can reach speeds up to Mach 2.6, and is able to climb to sub-orbital altitudes. When combined with his fellow Powermaster Darkwing, as the vehicle Dreadwing, they become capable of space flight, reaching light speeds and beyond." It doesn't explain the logic behind that. Maybe a working hyperdrive is too big for a single jet so they carry half of one each, but that seems a bit contrived. Martin
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jun 29, 2019 19:36:45 GMT
Perfectly logical.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 29, 2019 19:45:29 GMT
OK, that explains why the real jets don't combine, then. Nobody has yet invented the split-in-two hyperdrive. Or any hyperdrive, for that matter.
Martin
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jun 29, 2019 20:07:09 GMT
On this world.
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 29, 2019 20:25:38 GMT
This has really confused me. I'd always assumed the Headmaster/Targetmaster etc alt modes on the toys were Nebulan vehicles. Now I'm so confused I don't know where I am or what my name is.
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 29, 2019 20:26:16 GMT
This must be what Shockprowl feels like all the time...
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Post by legios on Jun 29, 2019 21:16:46 GMT
I must call in The Kaptain legios to explain how the underwing mounts are facing forward still however the swing wings are configured. Ah, that's simple (in theory - and incredibly complicated to actually execute in practice). Essentially, the underwing pylons are each on a mount a little bit like a railway turntable. It is enclosed in the wing, and rotates in step with the changing sweep angle of the wings. Thus keeping the pylons pointed to the "0" position as measured from the orientation of the aircraft's nose. It is simple to do, but a complicated thing to do in practice - especially to synchronise it all so that everything moves at the same time... Especially with 1970s technology. The reason you need to do it is that you want to keep the munitions hung on the pylons faced directly into the airflow, because pretty much everything you hang on a plane is designed to present minimal resistance to the airflow (drag) from that angle. (It is why external fuel tanks are elongated lozenge shapes for example.). If the pylons didn't move, then when the wings changed sweep angle you could suddenly have anything on the pylons being much more side-on to the airflow than nose on. Result - a rapid increase in the drag experienced by the aircraft. Result of that - an rapid deterioration of the stability of the aircraft, an increase in forces on the aircraft and the pylons that they were not designed to take potentially resulting in damage to one or both of them... The crew's day gets worse from there... This is basically also one of the obvious reasons that the real Tornado and "Viper" don't combine. Firstly, folding the entire nose section of a Tornado backwards like that would require you to carry the various hydraulics, control gear etc to do it - which would be dead-weight most of the time. To do that in the face of the massive sudden increase in drag that would result from the changing aspect of the front section of the aircraft would require materials far stronger than anything known to human material science. Because frankly it would just result in the Tornado being torn apart if we tried it with any known material. If anything the "Viper" has an even worse time of it - they are designed to be unstable to begin with, and to require active intervention to maintain level flight (the avionics normally does this, it can be done manually but it is not an easy task). But that is when they have all their control surfaces. Remove all the rear control surfaces from an F-16? You are basically making it unflyable before you add all the extra drag from from folding up the rear section onto the dorsal surface of the plane... (On the bright side, the F-16 pilot at least might be able to eject. The Tornado pilots lose much chance of a survivable ejection once the nose section is past the halfway mark of folding over...) Long story short - they don't because it would make them crash, break up, or otherwise transition from expensive aeroplane to charred junk. Also, combining them doesn't really gain you anything. Instead of two aircraft maintaining flight under their own power, you suddenly have the Tornado having to carry the extra weight of the F-16, which is now entirely dependent on the Tornado's engines. The combined result would be a single heavier, slower and less manueverable aircraft - it is entirely a negative process with no positive gains to be made. So even if you could do it, I see no conceivable reason why - in the real world - you would want to. Fortunately, this is all just realism we are discussing here. Transformers, like all mecha/robot franchises is inherently unrealistic and therefore doesn't need to concern itself with realism and is free to proceed on the basis of awesomeness instead. :-) Karl
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jun 29, 2019 21:17:48 GMT
I always assumed the point of the combined Dreadwing mode was that it was spaceship.
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Post by Pinwig on Jun 29, 2019 21:35:29 GMT
Turntables in the wings! Obvious really.
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 29, 2019 23:34:46 GMT
I always assumed the point of the combined Dreadwing mode was that it was spaceship. As did I. -Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 30, 2019 6:20:21 GMT
I always assumed the point of the combined Dreadwing mode was that it was spaceship. As did I. And that's how it's often used in the comic ('Race With the Devil', 'Recipe for Disaster', etc.), but in Masterforce it seems to serve another purpose in battle, enhancing their firepower or some such thing. If they're losing as two separate jets, they combine and are apparently suddenly much scarier as a single big one. Martin
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 30, 2019 6:31:17 GMT
This has really confused me. I'd always assumed the Headmaster/Targetmaster etc alt modes on the toys were Nebulan vehicles. Now I'm so confused I don't know where I am or what my name is. It's simple, the 1987 Headmaster and Targetmaster vehicles are Cybertronian or Nebulan designs, but the 1988 Headmaster, Double Targetmaster and Powermaster vehicles are Earth-inspired designs. (Overlord's jet appears to be loosely based on the SR-71 Blackbird, for example.) This works well for the Japanese cartoons - 1987 was set in space, 1988 was set on Earth. Doesn't work quite so well for the Marvel comics where you have TFs looking like Earth vehicles appearing first on Nebulos. Martin
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jun 30, 2019 10:53:51 GMT
And that's how it's often used in the comic ('Race With the Devil', 'Recipe for Disaster', etc.), but in Masterforce it seems to serve another purpose in battle, enhancing their firepower or some such thing. If they're losing as two separate jets, they combine and are apparently suddenly much scarier as a single big one. Martin It's like the Combiners - I always thought that the gimmick would be more impressive the other way around - one robot (or jet) being able to become lots of robots (or jets). Chop Shop from RID15 was good because you expected him to turn into one bug - but he became lots of little ones! Why wasn't there a toy of this?
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 30, 2019 12:24:58 GMT
It's like the Combiners - I always thought that the gimmick would be more impressive the other way around - one robot (or jet) being able to become lots of robots (or jets). Maybe that's how it would be with Micromaster combiners like Sixwing - they're a normal-sized robot, so nothing to get excited about, and then suddenly, wah! Six little robots/jets (or possibly six big jets, if they expand) attacking you! Martin
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