The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jan 27, 2019 20:34:08 GMT
As we are talking about the Clones in the Catalogue Sub Group Poll and some people think it's a bit of a pointless gimmick, what do people think the worst concepts/gimmicks are either as a toy or in fiction?
Some of them make great toys (Micromasters) but don't really work in the stories as well.
And some (not me) might say Action Masters don't work as toys but do make an interesting story.
What do we think?
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Post by Toph on Jan 27, 2019 20:54:31 GMT
I've always thought headmasters make horrid toys, but could be an incredibly interesting fictional concept (only Scorponok in Marvel G1 ever really explored it, though)
I mean, you take their heads off. If there's any part that shouldn't be losable, it's the head.
Combiners are the reverse. While they make interesting toys, they are the dumbest concept fictionally there is.
Primemasters also completely tanked.
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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 27, 2019 21:09:30 GMT
Oh aye. Oh aye. It's got to be Headmasters.
Their heads.... ACTUALLY COME OFF.
I didn't like it then, and the older I get, the more I don't like it.
Targetmasters and Powermasters too are a little goofy. Where does their 'power' come from? Do they have little generators inside their fleshy bodies? How can they generate more power than a Transformer's own power system or weapon?
BUT having read through many of the Techspecs recently in the Catalogue Polls... Yeah, there's some very interesting fiction going on. Good mix of characters. I just don't get it though. Particularly regarding Headmasters. When the head cones off-
WHERE IS THE ROBOT'S PERSONALITY/BRAIN MODULE/MIND...?
Do they share one mind....?
Action Masters, again, a bit goofy, Transformers who don't transform. BUT they get cool vehicles instead, so they just about work.
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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 27, 2019 21:17:43 GMT
And Combiners are very cool, I think you'll find, CJ.
But Devastator works better than the others. Six different robots combining, as opposed to Special Team style combiners, where one big robot puts on four small ones. Just... doesn't quite work as well. And I hate the way in fiction they seem to grown too INSANELY HUGE.
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 27, 2019 21:39:45 GMT
There have been some daft concepts over the years; I've never seen the point of Action Masters (fight me!), But the most ridiculous I think are these new Cyberverse toys that only half transform. They look absolutely ridiculous.
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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 27, 2019 21:41:14 GMT
Oh My God yes. Half transforming is... Offensive, actually.
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jan 27, 2019 21:43:21 GMT
It was Pretenders for me - both in fiction and as toys.
In my younger (but probably 'too old for toys') days, Transformers were always a lot more detailed and more complicated than other toys and I deemed them as acceptable but Pretenders just seemed to want to be like the childish He-Man or Thundercat toys that came before. The first set of ten were fine as something different (and the two Pretender Vehicles were also absolutely fine even if they did negate the whole robot transforming into a car thing) but a whole years worth of them the following year was way too much. Not that I didn't buy them being the brainwashed fan that I was, but it felt like I was buying a standard action figure that happened to come with a very small Transformer as a bonus.
Fiction-wise, Masterforce aside, the idea of humans or Transformers not suspecting giant people in armoured suits (that made them look like robots anyway) or aliens just didn't make sense. Especially as in the Underbase Saga the Dinobots and Scorponok pulled this off anyway without the fancy shells. It would have worked better if (for instance) Bomburst had disguised himself among an alien race that was the same as his shell.
Headmasters= toys I was fine with - it made the vehicle forms feel more like actual vehicles as they had to incorporate actual cockpits and pilot seats in them. In the fiction however (Marvel) - I still don't understand what it was supposed to achieve.
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Post by Toph on Jan 27, 2019 21:47:22 GMT
And Combiners are very cool, I think you'll find, CJ. But Devastator works better than the others. Six different robots combining, as opposed to Special Team style combiners, where one big robot puts on four small ones. Just... doesn't quite work as well. And I hate the way in fiction they seem to grown too INSANELY HUGE. Fictionally, you're taking away the advantage of numbers and teamwork, while making one large, weak, slow moving, intellectually dumb target. Like I said, they make interesting toys, but it's a stupid move to make in a combat situation. |
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jan 27, 2019 21:51:20 GMT
I also hated the way the combiners were so oversized in the cartoon/comics. the only way for this to work properly, is have about a hundred robots combine.  |
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 27, 2019 22:01:27 GMT
As the idea of transforming robots is inherently ridiculous anyway, I don't tend to think any of the concepts are stupid. The madder the better!!!
I wish colour change Autobot cars would come back.
-Ralph
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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 27, 2019 22:02:54 GMT
As the idea of transforming robots is inherently ridiculous anyway... -Ralph WHAAATTT?!?!?!!!! |
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 27, 2019 22:22:51 GMT
WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP AND LEAKING LUBRICANT!
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Jim
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Post by Jim on Jan 27, 2019 22:23:21 GMT
Action Master Elites - take a line whose thing is “Transformers that don’t transform but are posable” and... make them transformable and less posable.
Possibly actually a genius idea, it’s a fine line.
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 27, 2019 22:23:49 GMT
Inherently ridiculous?
INHERENTLY RIDICULOUS?!
THAT'S MY ENTIRE LIFE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!
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Post by Pinwig on Jan 27, 2019 22:25:02 GMT
I need to sit down.
Wait a minute, I am sitting down.
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The Huff
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Post by The Huff on Jan 27, 2019 22:41:13 GMT
Action Master Elites - take a line whose thing is “Transformers that don’t transform but are posable” and... make them transformable and less posable. Possibly actually a genius idea, it’s a fine line. The Elites are just as poseable as regular Action Masters (excluding Windmill) - they are just a bit bulkier. Turbomaster can even spin his wrists! Speaking of posability - the Illuminators/Laser Rods have the best gimmick ever (and I'm not talking about their glowing rods!). Articulation! I would have loved to have seen this as a 'special power' in fiction in the Delbo drawn comics! |
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Post by Toph on Jan 27, 2019 22:42:28 GMT
I can't think of line or sub-line wide gimmick that is totally without merit. But I can think of a few individual toy gimmicks that were absolute rubbish.
The worst one is Beast Machines Thrust. He had a gear gimmick that turned his head to the side when in motorcycle mode.
This was okay if you moved the toy really slowly. But if you did it with any tiny bit of speed (that's, you know... befitting of a motorcycle...), then he looks like he's gone absolutely nuts.
Then there is classics Ultimate Battle deluxe Optimus Prime, where his whole upper body spins around and around.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 27, 2019 23:27:21 GMT
Action Masters have always boiled my piss: who thought it would be a good idea to do Transformers that don't transform? Yes, I can see they're moving the gimmick to the accessories and vehicles but, for most Action Master toys the main focus of the toy doesn't Transform. They've tried to do Transformer action figures but missed the point of Transformers.
And in a very similar vein, Pretenders. They annoyed me as a youngster but I wasn't sure why. Having recently built Skullgrin to completion I've realised very little of the overall toy is the Transformers,most of the cost is shell and accessories.
Oddly when I was younger the only Pretenders I did get excited about were the Mega Pretenders, who'se shells do Transform!
The Transformer is the product here, your main toy has to transform.
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Post by shadowynne on Jan 27, 2019 23:28:27 GMT
Well, I'm also on board with headmasters... but, I love the toys. Hey, extra tiny robot? Excellent. In the fiction, just ridiculous, although the Japanese set up of the body just being a mindless shell and the headmaster being the bot works for me.
Pretenders... once again fun toy, not so great in fiction, pretty much any organic/inorganic mix is sorta gross...
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Jim
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Post by Jim on Jan 28, 2019 6:39:22 GMT
Action Master Elites - take a line whose thing is “Transformers that don’t transform but are posable” and... make them transformable and less posable. Possibly actually a genius idea, it’s a fine line. The Elites are just as poseable as regular Action Masters (excluding Windmill) - they are just a bit bulkier. Turbomaster can even spin his wrists! Ah, I didn’t realize that! Never handled one and anytime I’ve seen photos they’ve looked a bit bricklike in robot mode. Still love the look of them, just think the inverted gimmick is kind of mad... |
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Jim
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Post by Jim on Jan 28, 2019 6:52:45 GMT
Some of the more absurd sounding gimmicks that have been getting some stick somehow manage to be among my favourites.
Action Masters were amazing to me as a kid; I desperately wanted a Pretender (and was not disappointed when I eventually got Catilla); I wanted a Headmaster much more than the Targetmaster I got (I was the the kind of kid who is super-careful with toys, never lost accessories, and the little man riding in the cockpit was really appealing).
I find that lots of gimmicks, either as lines or individual toys, can be framed to sound absurd but were awesome to (at least some of) us as kids. I have to remember this sometimes when my daughter tells me about whichever currently hot toy she wants for a present; sometimes my first reaction is to think “but what is the point of that?” (e.g. Hatchimals) then I think back and catch myself.
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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 28, 2019 7:23:29 GMT
And Combiners are very cool, I think you'll find, CJ. But Devastator works better than the others. Six different robots combining, as opposed to Special Team style combiners, where one big robot puts on four small ones. Just... doesn't quite work as well. And I hate the way in fiction they seem to grown too INSANELY HUGE. Fictionally, you're taking away the advantage of numbers and teamwork, while making one large, weak, slow moving, intellectually dumb target. Like I said, they make interesting toys, but it's a stupid move to make in a combat situation. It's very hard to argue against this. Unless you need, I dunno, an instillation destroying in one go or something... |
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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 28, 2019 7:24:56 GMT
Some of the more absurd sounding gimmicks that have been getting some stick somehow manage to be among my favourites. Action Masters were amazing to me as a kid; I desperately wanted a Pretender (and was not disappointed when I eventually got Catilla); I wanted a Headmaster much more than the Targetmaster I got (I was the the kind of kid who is super-careful with toys, never lost accessories, and the little man riding in the cockpit was really appealing). I find that lots of gimmicks, either as lines or individual toys, can be framed to sound absurd but were awesome to (at least some of) us as kids. I have to remember this sometimes when my daughter tells me about whichever currently hot toy she wants for a present; sometimes my first reaction is to think “but what is the point of that?” (e.g. Hatchimals) then I think back and catch myself. Wise, The Galvajim is... |
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Post by Shockprowl on Jan 28, 2019 7:28:27 GMT
Action Masters have always boiled my piss. HOT COFFEE UP THE BACK OF THE NOSE!!!! AAAARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!! AAAARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!! OH GOD IT HURTS SO BAD!!!!! |
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 28, 2019 8:52:28 GMT
Action Masters have always boiled my piss And in a very similar vein, Pretenders. And thus you have sealed your fate. In February you will be True Friended. -Ralph |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 28, 2019 9:01:22 GMT
In one they don't Transform. In a line called Transformers surely that has to count against a toy?
In another the Transforming element makes up a small part with the larger part looking like a gimmick that was appropriated from somewhere else.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 28, 2019 9:09:20 GMT
Action Masters have a transforming partner or vehicle.
I never see anyone screaming about Robot Replicas or Robot Heroes or Tiny Titans and their packages had no transforming parts at all. All sold as 'Transformers'.
-Ralph
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Post by Philip Ayres on Jan 28, 2019 9:10:29 GMT
None of those were sold as a main Transformers line.
And are all tat
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 28, 2019 9:59:23 GMT
They were all sold as a main line.
All Transformers lines are 'main'.
-Ralph
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Post by Stomski on Jan 28, 2019 11:48:34 GMT
Nemesis Prime and Ultra Magnus repaints. It was cool in RiD, but that was a repurpose of a previous line's figure. Then it just got silly.
In fact, excessive repaints in general. The HasTak wanting to get more use from a mould and then that repaint spilling over into the fiction. Look at the 3 card brothers in RiD - let's introduce a super mode into the cartoon. Sometimes I forget the cartoons are just glorified adverts.
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