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Post by The Doctor on Apr 22, 2009 20:28:42 GMT
I'm not Charles!
I must have made you read this, Kaptain! Prime thinks he is a computer game character! Scorponok thinks he is a Bond villain! He creates big Pretender Monsters that will obviously blend in on Earth!
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Apr 22, 2009 21:30:12 GMT
Indeed you are not. Clearly the training has rotted my brain. [/quote] I must have made you read this, Kaptain! Prime thinks he is a computer game character! Scorponok thinks he is a Bond villain! He creates big Pretender Monsters that will obviously blend in on Earth! [/quote] If you have then I regret that I have no recollection of it at all. Maybe I have been brainhacked again. Karl
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Post by The Doctor on Apr 26, 2009 20:05:11 GMT
"Optimus Prime wants us to run, Waverider! He says it's what Decepticons expect of humans - which is why he fashioned our outer shells to look humanlike!"
-Ralph
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Post by legios on May 4, 2009 19:57:48 GMT
Yes, it has always struck me that Pretenders, in the comic seemed to be the result of both sides having their brains away on holiday for a while.
The Decepticons disguised themselves as giant monsters so as to hide the fact that they were Decepticons from the humans... which seems to be a little bit of a non-starter really. Sure, the humans might not think that they are evil Decepticons but they are probably going to respond to giant monsters with around the same level of military force. For that matter, the sudden appearance of monsters on Earth will more than likely draw the attention of the Autobots.
As to the Autobot Pretenders..... well, the whole enterprise appears to be predicated on the assumption that the Decepticons won't notice the distinct size difference between the Pretenders and all the humans around them. This seems like rather a flawed concept to me.
Karl
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 4, 2009 20:09:25 GMT
Well, in 'Kup's Story' there were one size of Tyroxian (the size of Kup) and another class much larger. Similarly, Transformers come in a range of sizes. And maybe Galen and Lord Zarak knew that humans in this Galaxy also come in a range of sizes - the small kind, 5 to 6 foot, and larger ones, as seen in 'Recipe for Disaster' and 'Matrix Quest: Bird of Prey'.
Maybe the Nebulans just assumed that you got giant as well as mini humans on Earth, as you do in the rest of the Galaxy - a reasonable assumption. And the Decepticon Pretenders may also have been based on animals that were quite normal on Nebulos and the planets it had had contact with?
Martin
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Post by legios on May 4, 2009 20:24:44 GMT
That's a fair point. I had been looking at it from the point of view that the Pretenders were designed to from the perspective of blending in with Earth creatures. The idea that they might have been based on organics from elsewhere in the galaxy does make a certain amount of sense.
It adds a kind of Comedy of Errors feel to the Autobot Pretenders on file. You can almost imagine the Nebulos contingent sitting around discussing it:- "Optimus Prime says he wants these shells to look like humanoids so they can blend in on Earth. What do we have on file? Ah, Pzzazzians, I'm sure that will be close enough."
Karl
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Post by The Doctor on May 4, 2009 20:49:23 GMT
Martin, you have just made Pretender to the Throne even more awesome than it already was!
-Ralph
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Post by blueshift on May 4, 2009 21:18:40 GMT
I always liked the mini retcon that Mr Furman did in his first US storyline, namely that the advantage of Pretender suits were that they were both heavily armoured and acted as portable repair chambers, making the wearer practically invincible.
See, I can dig armour.
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Post by The Doctor on May 4, 2009 21:23:10 GMT
I always liked how it was said the inner robot could control the outer shell with a 'radio signal', which made me think I could control Pretenders because I had fiddled about with 'make your own radio' kits!
-Ralph
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Post by charlesrocketboy on May 5, 2009 9:47:41 GMT
And the Decepticon Pretenders may also have been based on animals that were quite normal on Nebulos and the planets it had had contact with? There's some poor planet somewhere with a race of people who look like Skullgrin's shell, who keep wondering why their ambassadors to Cybertron are shot on sight...
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Post by charlesrocketboy on May 5, 2009 9:48:54 GMT
I like how in IDW, the Decepticon Pretenders, who are people who want power and are mad, are hideous monster things... while the Autobot Pretenders are giant armour suits. It's a nice touch.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 5, 2009 11:34:24 GMT
I've always thought that Pretenders were a concept that could have had some good legs for Transformers but was badly handled. Micro-Pretenders should have been how it was done. Perhaps the Decepticons employing the full scale Monsters as was for shock tactics.
Andy
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Post by grahamthomson on May 5, 2009 12:05:42 GMT
I always wished Marvel went with the Masterforce Way of doing Pretenders. I mean, if Megatron and Soundwave could shrink then why not have Landmine and co. the size of humans?
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Post by The Doctor on May 5, 2009 12:11:20 GMT
And the Decepticon Pretenders may also have been based on animals that were quite normal on Nebulos and the planets it had had contact with? There's some poor planet somewhere with a race of people who look like Skullgrin's shell, who keep wondering why their ambassadors to Cybertron are shot on sight... PLANET OF THE SKULLGRINS! Please write this story! It would make a for a funny 1-pager strip. -Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 5, 2009 13:27:50 GMT
I will draw it!
Andy
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 5, 2009 17:16:05 GMT
Bear in mind that the Autobot Pretenders are handsome chaps compared to the average human male. The same probably goes for Skullgrin with his species. Most of them are probably far less well groomed.
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on May 5, 2009 17:58:07 GMT
One of the Skullgrin people probably wears an ill-fitting wig.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 5, 2009 18:04:27 GMT
Stranglehold was supposed to be an Autobot Pretender, but the others, with their wholesome hero looks, were embarrassed to be seen with him, so they traded him with the Decepticons for the one-eyed walrus. Oh, that must have hurt.
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on May 5, 2009 18:14:11 GMT
Longtooth needs to die.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on May 26, 2009 17:28:53 GMT
From Marvel UK...
PREY!
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 26, 2009 17:31:04 GMT
Prey part 1 & part 2 or just Part 1?
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on May 26, 2009 17:46:56 GMT
All of it!
ROWR!
-Ralph
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 29, 2009 10:11:54 GMT
Prey kicks off with a really good premise. Prime has seen his Autobots go to pieces in his absence and make some very bad decisions. So what does he do? He makes a spectacularly bad decision all of his own. It's interesting to see that the Decepticons don't seem to have the issue of falling apart when their leaders are killed/disappear - but given how often that happens it's unsurprising.
Shockwave with the help of Soundwave begins to engineer the demise of Megatron in a relatively subtle way. We have the introduction of the Predacons who show they can take it to both Optimus Prime and Megatron. The art in the first two parts is from Will Simpson and Jeff Anderson - providing a nice contrast with the more organic lines of Simpson against the angular precision of Anderson.
And that last splash page on part two is such an effective cliffhanger you needed to know what was going to happen next issue.
There are a couple of plot holes regarding Prime's facsimile construct that niggle at me now looking back at it.
1 - Ratchet or Wheeljack either or could have told the difference between the facsimile construct and Prime during some sort of examination. 2 - If the Autobots are that scarce on resources why the hell would Prime sanction such a self-indulgent waste of materials that could be used to help to repair his fallen comrades.
Andy
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Post by grahamthomson on May 29, 2009 10:33:36 GMT
There are a couple of plot holes regarding Prime's facsimile construct that niggle at me now looking back at it. 1 - Ratchet or Wheeljack either or could have told the difference between the facsimile construct and Prime during some sort of examination. 2 - If the Autobots are that scarce on resources why the hell would Prime sanction such a self-indulgent waste of materials that could be used to help to repair his fallen comrades. I shall attempt to brook some NoPrizes from you!! 1. Perhaps, in terms of Facsimile Constructs for Transformers, the fake is an exact but lifeless replica of the original. After all, a robot/machine version of a robot/machine would surely be the very same. Unless Wheeljack stamps copyright and serial numbers on all the robots he builds... 2. In "Rock and Roll Out" it seems that it's easier to build a new body rather than repair an old one. But yeah, it is pretty self indulgent, now that you mention it.
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Post by legios on May 29, 2009 12:10:25 GMT
It does seem that Prime's plan is a little bit bonkers. Having noted that his Autobots don't do so well without his leadership he decides to pretend to have been killed and see how his Autobots manage..... I would be inclined to observe that he should just "see above".
As to the fact that the Autobots tend to fall apart without their leadership, whilst the Decepticons fair better, I wonder if it is a difference in their philosophies of army organisation? The Autobots might be used to operating on the centralised "Warsaw Pact" model - with a central headquarters handing down detailed plans that specify exactly what all parties are supposed to do. Which would lead to them not fairing particularly well when that central command authority goes silent.
Conversely, by temperament Decepticons seem less inclined to that tight central control - getting them all pointed the same way on an issue looks like it would be rather like herding cars. So it is possible that they are used to dealing with slightly more broad objectives - "Capture this city state", "destroy the Autobot fourth army", with lower command levels being left to figure out how to acheive these objectives. (Basically the western command model). It is only a theory, but I think it might explain their differing reactions to a loss of higher command.
Karl
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Rich
Protoform
Posts: 829
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Post by Rich on May 30, 2009 13:40:17 GMT
Decided to join in with the discussion for once seeing as I'm thinking of rereading all my trades (speaking of which, does anybody know of a best-fit reading order that combines Titan's US, UK and B&W trades?). The thing I really enjoyed was that opening splash page, and especially that classic high blown, massively dramatic, omniscient narrator - it's amazing that comics went from an almost 19th century novel style narrator to an almost uniformly invisible storyteller in less than twenty years. It would be horribly difficult to reproduce that style of narrator now without it sounding sneeringly knowing and ironic, and yet, I think narration has much to offer in comics without necessarily undermining the skills of the artist.
It strikes me as odd that after failing to cope with being left on their own, Prime decides that the best way to make the autobots do better is to leave them to their own devices again, surely he could have come up with something a little better (admittedly, it probably wouldn't have functioned as a dramatic plot device). Nowadays he'd probably have gone for some Alan Sugar style challenges.
One other thing I noted having kept on reading the Prey tpk - had to read Senior's next issue with it right there on the next page! – was that after having had a moan about the autobots joining up with Megs, Prime then goes and (sort of) teams up with Shockwave.
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Post by mewshkin on May 30, 2009 14:43:30 GMT
Yet another thing that makes little sense - Prime thinks it's all about him. Prowl's absence was also critical, yet Prime's plan takes no account of that.
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Post by charlesrocketboy on May 30, 2009 16:46:42 GMT
it's amazing that comics went from an almost 19th century novel style narrator to an almost uniformly invisible storyteller in less than twenty years. I still see the use of narrative captions in some of the 2000AD strips, but that's it. That is a major stylistic change, isn't it? (Who wants to Photoshop some of those captions onto modern TF comics for a laugh? )
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Post by The Doctor on May 30, 2009 17:36:48 GMT
I do miss narration in many modern comics. It adds a lot of depth.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 1, 2009 22:03:19 GMT
This week, back to Marvel US:
THE MAN IN THE MACHINE!
-Ralph
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