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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jun 2, 2009 18:06:55 GMT
Spike Witwicky struggles to come to terms with the fact that he and Fortress Maximus have a connection. He comes to terms with it and all is well.
They next appear a couple of years down the line in 'The Last Autobot' by Simon Furman, in which Spike Witwicky struggles to come to terms with the fact that he and Fortress Maximus have a connection. He comes to terms with it and all is well.
The less said about his next and final appearance, the better for all concerned. (All is not well, least of all me after struggling and failing to come to terms with the artwork of Manny Galan. But I digress.)
But 'The Man in the Machine' is great stuff. Wonderfully weird opening splash page, characteristic of Bob Budiansky's storyboards. (See also 'Afterdeath', 'Pretender to the Throne' and 'The Flames of Boltax' for similar robotic inventiveness.)
You know, this story could slot quite easily into Masterforce, if you replace Spike/Max with Ginrai.
Spike's clumsy pal is annoying though.
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on Jun 10, 2009 19:47:32 GMT
It's one of those stories for me where the idea is better than the execution. And I wanted Spike's pal to die.
-Ralph
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2009 20:08:06 GMT
I'm not exactly a fan of Budiansky's latter Marvel US work for Transformers. It seemed like he was trying to please Hasbro by introducing as many new characters as possible and ignoring the continuing story of the comics that were the undoubted highlight of the earlier issues. His stories suffered as a result and it was nice when Furman took over and brought the ongoing TF story back to the front.
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Post by The Doctor on Sept 5, 2009 21:54:34 GMT
It's been a while, so...
END OF THE ROAD![/color]
The last Marvel US storyline (US #80, UK #331/332)
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 14, 2010 14:46:31 GMT
I have recently been reassessing G.I. JOE AND THE TRANSFORMERS(the four-issue Marvel mini-series from 1987) Twenty-odd years ago, when I read this mini-series and compared it in my mind to the UK comic's origin of Goldbug (namely being blown up by Death's Head and rebuilt by Wreck-Gar) it seemed to go without saying, or any need for debate, that the UK version was far superior. Now - and I suspect I may be the only person on the Hub with this view - I've come round to the opposite opinion. Perhaps the UK story with Galvatron atop the volcano was better _executed_, but I've now grown terribly fatigued with stories of that formula (heroes from multiple eras converging on a god-like enemy and throwing themselves suicidally against him in a futile last-ditch effort, ending with a big explosion). My appreciation of classic TF comics is now rooted in interesting, thought-provoking concepts... and the G.I. Joe crossover mini-series provides a number of these. - A mobile power station that can fly wherever it is needed in the world - The Decepticons using cerebro-shell technology to take control of and hijack said power station - More showing the effects of cerebro-shells on humans (following what was previously seen in 'Aerialbots Over America'), and how brain damage can persist even after removal of the shell - A rogue faction of humans overriding the Decepticons' signal and taking control of it themselves - The Decepticons' plan to use the power station to release destructive energies from the Earth's core (not unlike Galvatron's plan with the volcano) and the damage to life that would ensue - Human scientists poring over a destroyed Transformer, realising that its brain may still be intact, and finding a way to speak to the brain and allow it to talk even when it has no body, nor even a head, to house it - Humans poking around a cerebro-shell giving Bombshell feedback that causes him to malfunction - Humans working out how to jam a Decepticon jet's frequencies so that when it tries to fire a missile it blows up - Humans trying to piece a destroyed Autobot back together, getting so far but then requiring an Autobot medic to help finish the job - A special branch of the US military coming to consider the Autobots as partners and allies, and fighting alongside them against the Decepticons (as seen later on in the live-action movies) - the only time in Marvel comics that we've had a pitched battle between Autobots and military on one side, and Decepticons on the other - The question being raised as to whether the power station is becoming an emerging artificial intelligence, and the ethical implications of that (a question explored a few years later in the text story 'Prime Bomb' in one of the UK annuals) Plus various crosses and double-crosses, alliances, dodgy political deals and assassinations... and it's a pretty rich plot for four US issues / eight UK issues. Yeah, the execution could have been better - the dialogue was second-rate, the artwork mediocre - but the concepts are excellent, and a lot more intriguing to me than the limited concepts covered in the equivalent UK issues. So, while I keep my complete set of Marvel UK and US TF comics in storage, my readable shelf consists of a select number of trade paperbacks that comprise what I consider to be my 'essential' TF story collection. It includes the Titan US reprint books from US #1 to US #80... it does _not_ include the 'Wanted: Galvatron' story arc - but it does include the 1993 trade paperback reprint of 'G.I. Joe and the Transformers'. So sue me! Alternative perspectives, anyone? Martin
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Post by blueshift on Feb 14, 2010 16:13:29 GMT
I thought a lot of it was long and boring - didn't care about GI Joe then, don't care about it now. HOWEVER the death of Bumblebee was amazingly sad and tragic to me. Getting blown up for helping someone, and his head going "I... have.... failed"
And then GI Joe had him in bits and were going through his remains!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2010 16:39:45 GMT
You're right that the artwork was mediocre. I have the Marvel TPB of the series and I read through it a few years ago and couldn't believe it! In one panel Bumblebee's car mode looks a lot bigger than it should be and in another panel he seems to have eyes on his windscreen! Couple that with an appalling plot which features some kind of sloshy love story that culminates in the death of the one of the two lovers and you have an altogether terrible piece of storytelling.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 14, 2010 17:10:14 GMT
Couple that with an appalling plot which features some kind of sloshy love story that culminates in the death of the one of the two lovers and you have an altogether terrible piece of storytelling. I suppose I used to write it off as a bad story because it was badly told. Nowadays when I read it I see a good story badly told. And when I re-read a lot of Furman's stories that I used to think were good stories, I now find bad stories well told! It seems the packaging was what counted for me when I read the TF comics as a kid, not the actual ideas behind the story. I used to think stories like 'Wrecking Havoc' and 'Deadly Games' were good stories because they were dramatic, bold and colourful. But they are actually very shallow in the plot department. On the other hand, stories like 'Pretender to the Throne' and 'Cash and Car-Nage' which I thought were slow and dull at the time, I now find very interesting because the ideas behind them are quite thought-provoking. Martin
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 17, 2010 19:26:49 GMT
My warning still stands:
-Ralph
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Feb 17, 2010 21:10:48 GMT
I concur with the warning!
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 24, 2010 8:41:43 GMT
All right, and as a contrast from last week, when I nominated what I consider to be a good story very badly told ("G.I. Joe and the Transformers"), I nominate what I consider to be a very bad story well told: ALIGNMENTAlignment is Simon Furman's sequel to the Marvel Transformers: Generation 2 comic, bridging the gap between Marvel and Beast Wars. It may be downloaded or read on-line here: www.transforce.org.uk/alignmentbook.swfA story set several hundred years after the Marvel comics, in which by sheer coincidence of timing key Autobot characters stumble upon a hidden sector of space called the Hub (consisting of "an ocean of worlds" all connected in a three-dimensional network) just as its master, the Liege Maximo, is about to ascend to godhood and destroy the universe. Whew! Lucky break for us there, eh? "The Hub covered several light years of space, and only sheer fluke had landed them this close to the mid-point of its unfolding geometry." Within walking distance, in fact. We have in this story Decepticons who set their planet to self-destruct in such a way that "in moments... the surrounding several light years of space were gone". We have Autobots trying to sabotage a bit of the Hub and "leave a colossal gaping hole the size of a small galaxy". Everything in this story is not only out of scale with reality (in which you have to wait a year before you can see what happens a light-year away, and much longer to actually affect something there) but also out of scale with Transformers and the stories that they are suited for. There are no moral grey areas. Not a word is exchanged between the two sides of the conflict from start to finish. It's not really a Transformers story at all, but a story of gods and demi-gods. And it is riddled with typos. (After Megatron executes a traitor, he speaks one word: Not "Guilty," but "Gulity.") And yet... Simon Furman can really write this kind of stuff. Its square-jawed, resolute, grim-faced heroes, its apocalyptic language, its refusal to be bound in by rules of any kind - I get the feeling he loved every moment of writing this, flying free, the words coming almost by second nature. I don't know if anyone else could write this story and come as close as Furman did to making it work. (Assuming anyone else would have the presumption or wish to attempt it.) Martin
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Post by blueshift on Feb 24, 2010 9:20:31 GMT
I always found Alignment to be a bit of a disappointment if I'm honest. Very anti-climatic, especially with the deaths of major characters.
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 24, 2010 19:26:33 GMT
I enjoyed part 1 in the magazine, but found the finished tale the following year to fall a bit flat. Felt like a summary rather than a full story.
-Ralph
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2010 19:05:38 GMT
I've read virtually no fanfiction from that period so I'll have to print that out some time and read it before I give my opinion on it.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 3, 2010 7:21:29 GMT
In honour of my post count, this week I nominate a never-to-my-knowledge reprinted Wreckers story... PEACEreadable on-line here. It doesn't really convince me character-wise, but it works well perhaps as a nightmare experienced by Rodimus Prime. Martin
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2010 10:38:03 GMT
I never actually realised that that story from the 1988 annual was never reprinted. I assumed that Titan had reprinted all of the annual strip stories in their TPB's.
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Mar 7, 2010 0:01:27 GMT
I find it works with characterisation - Scattorshot was established in his bio to be trigger-happy and aggressive, and Sandstorm and Roadbuster were pretty aggressive too. Rodimus was always shown to be tired of his role in the future strips, and Magnus notably is trying to calm things down and point out he doesn't want to be leader anyway.
Add in that the strip makes it explicit that the war's ground down on the characters and their morals, and I can see these characters losing their rag in a deliberately hostile situation and others joining in (the Wreckers, at least, are very tight-knit). How long the Autobot War could possibly last is debatable (there's only a dozen guys involved!), but that's the only problem I have with it.
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 7, 2010 19:03:33 GMT
I liked it as a child because then I knew how the overall story of the TF 'ended' even if the comic was cancelled. As an adult, I like the balls of finishing things off in 7 pages rather than a 6x22 page miniseries!
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Mar 7, 2010 21:14:20 GMT
Peace is a story that I quite like the idea of, and I have always felt it is a nice allegory for how the war on Cybertron could easily end - the Autobots defeat the Decepticons but have forgotten how to live at peace, so the planet is a tinderbox just waiting for a match to set it off. The sense that in fighting monsters they have sadly become monsters themselves
I personally think that it works tonally as either _an_ ending or as an allegorical story of how things could end if the Autobots were not careful.
Karl
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Mar 8, 2010 7:39:55 GMT
Yeah, it's the ultimate cautionary tale.
And considering the Maximal/Predacon tensions in Beast Wars, it was right!
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 13, 2010 20:46:12 GMT
What doesn't convince me character-wise is how the Autobots start shooting each other within seconds of victory being declared. I find it stretches credulity too much to have them hold together as an army and win the war when they are that unstable and, well, insane as individuals. They come across as being homicidal maniacs rather than soldiers of any sort.
I could believe a story in which these particular Autobots are unable to cope with peace over a period of time... or a story in which, during the course of the war, a group of these guys just goes mental and on a killing spree and has to be put down. It's just the speed at which they go from successful army with command structure to madhouse that makes it seem more like Rodimus Prime's nightmare dream than a sequence of real events. (The final panel reinforces that opinion for me.)
I suppose one way it could work for me is if the Autobots in question were portrayed as robots programmed only for war rather than people. The last Decepticon falls - where is next target? - no more Decepticons! - must have new target! - does not compute! - purpose is to kill enemy robots! - must find new enemy! - exterminaaate!
But it wasn't written like that. It was written as people with their minds intact murdering each other for no good reason.
Martin
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Post by charlesrocketboy on Mar 13, 2010 23:25:14 GMT
But it wasn't written like that. It was written as people with their minds intact murdering each other for no good reason. Once the first people had been shot, there was a pretty clear reason - "that guy shot our friend [x], bastard!" and "oh no, shoot before we get shot!".
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Post by Benn on Mar 13, 2010 23:51:01 GMT
Yeah, millions of years of war must hone the 'shoot first, ask questions later' instinct of the survivors. Especially when they're guys like Roadbuster, who only really knows how to shoot stuff.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 14, 2010 8:37:04 GMT
Yeah, millions of years of war must hone the 'shoot first, ask questions later' instinct of the survivors. Especially when they're guys like Roadbuster, who only really knows how to shoot stuff. But surely if your instincts are to shoot first, ask questions later - indiscriminately, even shooting unarmed Autobots in meetings in Autobot headquarters trying to discuss leadership issues - you won't survive long. You will surely disgrace yourself and be at best kicked out early on in the war - you won't become one of their elite commandos and one of the few left standing at the end. It also doesn't say much for Springer's control and leadership of his team if they are such loose cannons. OK, the story could be credible in my eyes if there was a _lot_ more happening behind the scenes that we don't get to see - long-standing feud between Wreckers and Technobots, ongoing suspicions among the Wreckers about Triton's loyalties. If Roadbuster was just trying to take Triton into custody, having got the last evidence he needed, but Scattershot is also a traitor and shot him before he could reveal what he knew, etc., etc. I mean, it's odd that after Scattershot kills Roadbuster, Sandstorm doesn't shoot Scattershot (who is still armed and dangerous) but the unarmed Triton who had only been talking. Maybe Sandstorm also knew a lot more... and odd that they all go into the meeting armed in the first place. Yeah, I'd buy it if there was a lot of conspiracy, treachery and investigation stuff already in the pipeline between the Technos and Wreckers. It just seems silly and unconvincing if it is supposed to be spontaneous and unprovoked (which I think is what the writer intended, and where he failed in my eyes). Martin
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Post by blueshift on Mar 14, 2010 12:37:58 GMT
I don't think you should read TOO much into it. 'Peace' is a moral fable story and it only has what, 5 pages to do it all in? I think it works perfectly well, and has a real poetic edge to it.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 14, 2010 13:21:07 GMT
Yeah, agree with that. As a moral fable story thingy it doesn't need to be convincing in terms of characterisation/continuity. As long as I read it in those terms (as someone's nightmare or as a symbolic warning rather than as a workable part of the ongoing saga) it's pretty effective.
Martin
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Mar 16, 2010 18:05:20 GMT
It's been a while, so... END OF THE ROAD![/color] The last Marvel US storyline (US #80, UK #331/332)[/quote] I notice that all of us - Ralph included - were very rude and ignored this nomination. I therefore re-nominate it. Assuming that the rushed conclusion was forced on Furman, and that this isn't the story as he would have told it had the comic not been cancelled, it's not too bad. Ratchet got to take down Megatron, Galvatron, Shockwave and Starscream a couple of issues earlier, so Optimus Prime, Grimlock and Prowl have to settle for a bunch of lesser Decepticons. Given that, they do manage to make it look difficult enough, thanks to a very nasty ambush told in flashback. I don't really care about that most of the characters featured here. However, I do like the last few panels. Putting the rest of the story to one side, it is a nice bookend to the 80 issues to finish with a mirror image of how it all began: In issue #1, Optimus told Prowl they had no choice but to sacrifice themselves by crashing the Ark into the Earth. The story concludes by him telling Prowl that Cybertron has been restored and they can go home. Despite 'End of the Road' being inferior to its epilogue story 'Another Time and Place' in every other way, I certainly prefer this sort of end note to 'It never ends'. Martin
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2010 19:23:36 GMT
When I first got into the Marvel TF comics quite a few year back End of the Road was one of the first issues I read. I then went onto read all of the Marvel UK and US issues in order before coming back to End of the Road to re-read it. On both occasions I found it an entertaining and well written issue - far superior than anything that IDW has ever put out as a final issue. One day I'll go back and re-read all of the Marvel TF comics again as todays crop just isn't doing much for me.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Mar 20, 2010 14:21:44 GMT
I'm a big fan of End of the Road. The thing is, it didn't feel like the end of the story when I was reading it when it came out. It very much felt like the end of an era though and Simon was clearing the decks for a change in direction.
The Ratchet/Megatron tale played out to a very satisfactory conclusion. The page with Ratchet nailing Starscream both verbally and physically was expertly done by Wildfurville.
I do agree about it falling far short of the giddy heights of Another Time and Place though.
Andy
You knew Prime had to come back at the end and while it was a touch cliche it was well done enough that you could forgive it.
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Post by Shockprowl on Aug 15, 2010 1:13:10 GMT
Believe it or not, I only read End of the Road very recently. Well, 2 years ago, or sumat. Anyway, I was blown away. The story was fast paced, edgy, always building to something, and had loads of Prowl in it. And I'm not just saying that as a Prowl Obsessive, no, the interplay between Prowl and Grimlock is brilliant, and Prowl's character goes through all sorts of turmoil, so desperate is he to maintain the peace. The Prowl/Grimlock relationship had been crying out to be done, and the Great Simon F delivered. And I saw Bludgeon in the Decepticon Leader role for the first time which I was really impressed with him as a character. In sort, Great story!
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