A Question Of Scale

[Shockprowl]

GodModNote

This thread was built my merging several older ones on very similar subjects, one of which contained a Poll. If you're looking for the first post with the poll question then you can find it here

GodModNote

What TF toys would you have preffered to have been made/released in a different size to what they actual were made/released in?

On my list are:

Classics/Universe Galvatron. Delux? Crazy. Pants. Bumholes. Stupid idea. Waste of a great looking toy, darn it.

The Classics Strike Planes. I think they'd have been better as voyager, or a kind of sub-voyager size.

Transmetal T-Rex Megatron. Really nice figure, but seems too small against other Beast Wars figs. Original T-Rex's Ultra size seems much more appropriate. If TM Megs were Ultra he'd be one of the best Megatron figs of aaaaalllll time!

G1 Triple changers. Always thought these, partic Astrotrain and Blitzwing, would have been better larger. Although conversely I don't mind Classics Astrotrain being delux.

Classics Bumblebee. As much as I love the figure, I sometimes wish he was a tad smaller, basic sized, fit more in with the original character and other basic figures.

And not wanting to anoy Phil (te he he), but-
CLASSICS GRIMLOCK! GRIMLOCK BIG! GRIMLOCK BIG! Needed to be at least voyager, if not Ultra! Just as large-a-crime as Classics/Universe Galvatron.

[The Doctor]

I have to be honest and say the issue of wishing a toy was a different size rarely bothers me, in terms of thinking it is 'wrong' for the character. I tend to just take the toys at whatever size they are. Where it does influence my purchasing decisions in terms of value for money is where I feel larger TF's don't do enough stuff for their size/pricepoint. An example is Cybertron Supreme Starscream, which at a staggering £50 pricepoint didn't seem to do much more than the deluxe version at £20. My money for toys is limited so if I had £50 spare I'd rather get, say, 3 good TF's than 1 big one that doesn't do much. Money aside, another consideration is space. Unless a large TF blows my mind, I'll have to skip it due to restrictions of space. I was tempted by the supreme class Cybertron Primus when it dropped to half-price in TRU but annoyingly had to pass as I couldn't see where I could put it!

-Ralph

[dyrl]

For me, personally, this question is pointless when dealing with Transformers.

This is because Transformers have always been non-scale toys - so if you pushed me - I'd say that the Transformers ought to be the proper size appropriate to the thing they turn into.

This would mean that:

1. Megatron would be a Micro-Micromaster. He would be basically the size of twice my palm in robot mode - and yes - he WOULD be leader of the Decepticons with a devastating fusion cannon and all...just he certainly wouldn't tower over anyone. Megatron would be sold with a "small" Megatron gun and robot in 1/60 scale.

2. Soundwave and his cassetes would, like Megatron, be Micro-Micromasters. Soundwave and the cassettes would come with small robot/cassete/tape deck toys in 1/60 scale.

3. Starscream and the seekers would be scaled at 1/60 (as they are in Masterpiece)

4. The Autobots would be scaled at 1/60 to match up with the Decepticons. This would make them really really small.

I suppose that the seekers could be upgraded to 1/48 so as to allow the Autobots to be upgraded in size as well - but the point here is that guys like Ironhide and Jazz would be pint sized compared to guys like Starscream.

The Seekers would then probably be their own little faction, duking it out with the Micro-cons for supremecy over the Decepticon army.

Metroplex, Trypticon, Scorponok and Fortress Maximus would likewise be HUGE. I'm talking GI Joe FLAGG like huge.

All in all, there could also be scale models of the robots that could be snap fit kits that we could weather.

But see- then it wouldn't be Transformers. It WOULD be Transformers the Bay Movie DONE RIGHT.

Sadly, Hasbro went the "screw it, we're making non-scale puddles of goo for toys" route with the Bay movie - which is a shame, since the designs in the movie are really astonishing and deserve much better treatment in the toy world.

I am holding out that Takara will grace the Masterpiece line with some Bayformer sculpts - Masterpiece Movie Starscream would be wonderful, Masterpiece Movie Megatron would too (although people would complain about the alien jet even if it were super detailed) ...

But generally - complaints like "well Grimlock should be big!" are kind of pointless...

Although I will give Hasbro credit - in some series, the scale problem was not that bad. Beast Wars was fairly well done - if you just accepted the premise that certain bugs and rodents were made somewhat larger for the sake of taking on their nemesis. In general - non-scale animals are easier to believe in because it's not like other ants were going "huh? What's the huge red ant doing here?" - whereas humans would certainly react to a non-scale Jazz or Bumblebee driving around...

Animated seems to be doing well on this front as well- Shockprowl should be happy that Grimlock is a voyager class in Animated...

But generally - the nature of Transformers is non-scale - and as Ralph correctly pointed out - some of the toys that are large also suck terribly.

DYRL

[Bogatan]

I agree with what Ralph is saying for the most part. Supreme Cybertron Starscream is the perfect example.

At Botcon for the last two years Ive volunteered and both years Ive been in the playpit. Hasbro supplied 29 Supreme Starscreams so Ive had a lot of time to play with it. Its a very impressive toy and taken in context with the cartoon it makes sense, but it does almost nothing that the legend sized toy doesnt do. Besides the size difference you get more arm articulation, a cyber planet key and a crown.

Thats pretty much the most extreme example, but I dont think Id want any of he figures you've named making bigger for the same reason. I think more often than not Galvatron would have been released as a £20 toy and I would have looked at it and thought it wasnt worth the money. As a £10 toy it will be mine. Also without cartoon support I guess they want more pocket money priced toys in that line with large repaints that dont cost them much, hence Blaster.

And anyone wanting the monstrosity that is Classic Grimlock made bigger is just mad. ;D

I do like my line ups to be something like to scale though.
I do agree with you on CLassic bumblebee and also Animated Bee. Activision looks like being a good alternative to him except the dodgey hands, but I'd prefer hasbro just make he deluxe toy smaller and include a too scale human character. Spike for Classic and Sari for animated.

Id like to see voyager Bulkhead bigger but there is a lot of plastic in it and there is a leader class version.

Its usually stuff like Rodimus Prime/Galvatron. Thunderclash/Skyquake G2 Prime/G2 Megtron. Usually in those circumstances its the big guy I want smaller. Galvatron smaller would be so much more playable and I prefer G2 Hero Megatron to the big guy. I would have said the same about Skyquake as well but since finding out about Hyperdrive I imagine the autobot leader was meant to be bigger. Certainly my own attempt at building one (with a truck mode about the same size as Thundrclash) suggests the robot mode would have been a few inches taller.


Ive written a lot and my T key doesnt want to work.

Andy

[Deleted]

I thought G1 Blaster was the wrong size because when you placed him up next to G1 Optimus Prime he was way bigger. He should have been either smaller than Prime or the same size as it just looks a little silly.

[Bogatan]

I just expanded on the MP line up for figures like Blaster, hes perfect stood alongside MP Prime as are figures like Starsaber and Victory Leo.

Andy

[Philip Ayres]

Agree with the TM Mega leaders

The words Beast Machines haven't yet entered this discussion and should. Cos there's more size f*** ups here than the rest of TFs put together. Where do we start ?

Cheetor is a deluxe toy. Not a Mega. or a Supreme. To be fair when they got it right it was a good toy but it's yet to be done in the correct colours - yellow with green transparent plastic.

Optimus as a dlx didn't work. Monkey didn't look Prime enough either. The Mega's an improvement, but AAOP is too big. Should have been Ultra.

Rattrap isn't a Mega. Should have been dlx or basic.

Nightscream is far too huge as an Ultra. Again dlx or Basic.

Dragon Megs is too small as a mega (and is very small for a mega) Why they didn't just stick the TM2 Ultra out again in a new box I don't know.

Silverbolt: Miniscule as a basic. Should have been dlx or Mega.

I'll let the mini versions of the tank and cycle drone go, and the larger Jetstorm.

Obsidian could have been larger.

So of all the show characters only Blackarachnia, Thrust (completely the wrong shape), Tankor and Stryka are the right size.

[Nigel]

Mind you, in the cartoon, Blackarachina towered over the others in beast mode, as did Tankor in robot mode!

With Beast Machines, I reckon they were looking at getting so many of each size class rather than looking for consistency across the range. That said, Primal, Rattrap and Cheetor were all released first as sizes they hadn't previously been released as in Beast Wars (Deluxe, Mega and Mega respectively), which was presumably a consideration; also, the Mega Megatron fits quite well with the Deluxe Primal.

As for Universe Galvatron, looking at the pictures, it does look like it would suit a larger size, but the Deluxe size is consistent with the Classics Deluxe Megatron tank and was presumably why that class was chosen.

Oh, and Arcee should be about 5'4" tall, with a Pretender shell. Um, er, um.

[dyrl]

I'd forgotten about the mess that was Beast Machines... indeed - completely messed up scales.

Nightscream alone could have eaten Megatron for breakfast

dyrl

[Philip Ayres]

The Mega Megatron is far too small (value wise) for a Mega toy

[chrisl]

I wish that one of the WST bootleggers in the far east would make small versions of Road Ceasar, Deszaras and the Dinoforce to fit in scalewise with Robomasters Victory Saber, WST Landcross and WST Liokaiser.

[Gav]

I want an 8 foot tall Longtooth, to place outside Ralph's front door.

[The Doctor]

Damn you, Sir.

-Ralph

[grahamthomson]

I would be a very happy collector if Transformers toys were downscaled. Most of the 1984-1986 range were perfect as they were (from a collector's view, not actual to-scaleness) because the Leaders were large enough, the likes of Metroplex and Trypticon were hu-uge and the combined modes of the Special Teams were worth something.

As soon as 1987 hit with those awful Headmasters et al, robot mode heights shot up like genetically-modified teenagers and the original Transformers were soon dwarfed by the new guys. I can see why, though, since Diaclone-driver sized Nebulans would have been a serious stuck-in-an-orifice (SIAO) hazard. But a Chromedome the same size/scale as, say, Prowl would have been nice.

And by the time of 1990, Action Master Bumblebee next to Action Master Devastator blew my mind!

[Nigel]

And they're still growing! The typical size now is far greater than it used to be. It's easy to forget how immense the likes of Ultra Magnus and Metroplex were in their day.

Some Mini-Cons are taller than some Mini-Autobots.

[Bogatan]

Yeah BW and MW basics were often bigger than the G1 Autobot cars. MW Mirage was bigger than G1 Mirage Im pretty certain. Classic Mirage Towers over both of them.

Whats strange is that Id assume increasing costs would mean $10 deluxes should be getting smaller nearer to the old basic size class. Instead they get bigger and got rid of basics.

Andy

[Shockprowl]

I totally appreciate the whole scale thing (the world dyrl describes would be very interesting!!). But for me, the size of the fig is directly linked to the character. Certain characterS demand a certain size, IMHO.


PS CLASSICS GRIMLOCK IS TOOOOOO SMALL!!!!!!!

[Shockprowl]

I realise that sizes seem to alter line to line, so just to clarify- For the purposes of this 'Ultimate Poll', delux is, well the size Classics Grimlock actually is. Voyager is as large as Classics Megatron. Ultra is the size of, say, Energon Scorponok, a head taller and more bulky, than a Classics voyager.

This, as I think you're aware, is a bit of a bone of mine (and you know how I can get a little obsessed with stuff). I believe quite strongly that it was an error to produce Classics Grimlock as a delux sized figure. He should have been at least voyager, and preferabily Ultra. In my opinion that kind of size fits the character better.

I'd be very interested to see what Hub Regulars think of this, once and for all!

I prepare to once again clash with my Arch what's-the-correct-size-for-Grimlock Nemesis, the Lord of incorrectly sized Transformers- P H I L !

Not that Phil is an incorrectly sized Transformers himself, of course. I'm sure he's the correct size for himself.

[Hero]

Ultra all the way.

[Philip Ayres]

The deluxe option is shagged and won't register a vote

[Nigel]

I also tried to vote for Deluxe. It almost makes me think that somebody has rigged the vote....

[Andy Turnbull]

It's not rigged. The latest version of proboards doesn't like some of the code mods (Youtube) and firefox. Open up IE and you can vote for what you want in there.

I've mentioned it before the last time a Poll was launched.

Andy

[legios]

Doesn't it depend on which Grimlock toy we are talking about? After all, I wouldn't want to see the Energon Grimlock at any size larger than it already is, and whilst the Actionmaster one makes sense at the smaller size I don't think it would make sense to make it bigger. The 84 Grimlock however works well both at the size it originally was, and at a considerably smaller scale.

I'd say that it depends on the individual toy.

Karl

[Nigel]

Sorry, Karl, I had to smite you for that post. The words "Classics" and "Shockprowl" make it pretty darn obvious which Grimlock we're talking about.

My vote is now registered. It's nice to know that Aaaiieee!! has its uses.

[legios]

May 19, 2008 14:18:33 GMT Nigel said:

Sorry, Karl, I had to smite you for that post. The words "Classics" and "Shockprowl" make it pretty darn obvious which Grimlock we're talking about.

Yeah, would help if I was able to read wouldn't it? I guess the paint fumes have pickled my brain.

My vote is now registered. It's nice to know that Aaaiieee!! has its uses.

I think I shall simply abstain - I'm not a fan of Classics Grimlock for reasons other than the size class so I don't have a strong feeling there.

Karl

[The Doctor]

I want an Action Master Grimlock that is eight feet tall. And his lawnmower too.

-Ralph

[dyrl]

Transformers are all non-scale anyways so it's hard to say I just want a reissue G1 Grimlock - only Takar could do us a favor and give him a tad bigger head

VFTF1

[Bogatan]

You didnt to include Legends class, or so "small it doesnt exist in this plain of existence" class. Im sure it wasnt deliberate. Just slipped your mind:)

Really its an ok toy but I just cant stand it as Grimlock. Those legs, that tail. I wouldnt want to see that version made any bigger than it is it just wouldnt look good enough, doesnt do enough. Yuck. Roll on Animated Grimlock and Masterpiece Grimlock (fingers crossed)

Andy

[Shockprowl]

May 19, 2008 12:36:16 GMT Nigel said:

I also tried to vote for Deluxe. It almost makes me think that somebody has rigged the vote....

Te he he! Found out! -Not really, no way I've the tech knowhow for stuff like that!


So Ultra just ahead! So gripping! Big hearty pats on the back for all voters of Ultra and Voyager! Assults on the fan-bean for the delux voter! You know who you are!

More votes please! This Question of Questions must be resolved once and for all! (And the Phil-the-incorrect-sized-one shall taste the oh so bitter taste of defeat!!!!!).

[Philip Ayres]

I think not. See above. Cos I've switched to IE just to vote.