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Post by Shockprowl on Mar 2, 2011 9:53:49 GMT
That's ok, I'm sure Mr Cook has some thoughts on the matter. I do I do I diddily diddily do. Went on about this in the other thread. The OFFICIAL shockprowl view on this is: I think that certain characters 'fit' a certain size in relation to other characters, for the purposes of interaction.MP and Classics Grimlock is TOO SMALL. Classics Strike Planes are TOO SMALL. Classics Bumblebee is TOO LARGE, yes, TOO LARGE. So the six Classic Strike Planes being made up to voyager is what I'd like. Cyclonus and Scourge can be voyagers too. But the Strike Planes are my bug-bear. (What the hell's a bug-bear?!?!?!!) If they were to (please please please) do Masterpiece Soundwave and Shockwave, I'd want Soundwave to be almost as tall as MP Optimus and Megatron, and Shockwave to be as tall as MP Optimus and Megatron. And I can honestly say that if MP Grimlock had been the same size as MP Optimus and Megatron I'd have been, how did Doc' put it that time, all over it like shit on velcro! I suppose, I'm all about the interaction between characters. I don't feel the interaction is good, unless the size the right. By contrast, G1 Shockwave is way too large to interact well with G1 Megatron (not that I own a G1 Shockwave, but I've got that grey 'Shackwave' one). The MP Strike Planes look pretty good size wise next to the Autobot Alternators, so happy there ;D. Oh, and, for heaven's sake Hasbro, stop chickening out on combiners! Give us a (decent) big-ass combination robot! Combiners always seem too small! So says Shockprowl! |
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Post by Shockprowl on Mar 2, 2011 9:57:55 GMT
tiny things are awesome, besides my collection would be so much easier to manage! Mrs Shockprowl would like you! |
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Post by grahamthomson on Mar 2, 2011 14:52:30 GMT
Bless you, valued subscriber!
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Post by Bogatan on May 13, 2011 20:06:45 GMT
Does anyone have a working link to the image, been meaning to test a theory and just realised I don't have a copy of it. |
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Post by grahamthomson on May 16, 2011 8:50:27 GMT
I will furnish you with a scan of those pages soon.
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Post by Toph on Feb 11, 2014 1:53:30 GMT
This one has a much nicer jet mode and it's a respectable size for those who think of Jetfire the way Shockprowl thinks of the Dinobots  And yes, Dinobots should be big. Not all dinobots should be big. Ideally swoop should be small, with slag and snarl on the large side of normal. Grimmy being big, with Sludge a true giant. So... Scout, two deluxes, Voyager, and leader respectively. Or deluxe, two voyagers, ultra, and leader respectively. I'd be happy with either. |
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 11, 2014 6:46:12 GMT
Yes Swoop should be smaller. I'd deff go:
Swoop - Delux
Slag & Snarl - Voyager
Grimlock - Ultra
Sludge - Leader
The Decepticon Strike Planes should also be large than your average delux Autobot. Strike Planes shouldn't be delux they should all be voyager. Still
bugs me that my 6 Classics Strike Planes just look too small next to Megatron and the Autobot Classics cars.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 11, 2014 9:11:48 GMT
Dinobots: That's too much discrepancy in size.
I'd bring the old Mega class (Rotorstrom & Stalker, BW Scorponok, polar Claw and Inferno, TM Op and Megatron, TM2 Blackarachnia, BM Cheetor and Tankor, RID Sky Byte and trains) out of retirement. Do Slag, Snarl and Swoop as Megas. Grimlock and Sludge as Voyagers.
I miss the Mega size. Some great toys ...... And some of the worst shelf warmers in history!
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Post by Bogatan on Feb 11, 2014 9:37:24 GMT
Starscream and the other Strike Jets would also be better suited to Mega class. Theres too much of a difference between deluxe and voyager especially at the moment when Springer and Sandstorm are old school big voyagers and most deluxes are on the smaller end of the scale.
The jets only need to be larger end of deluxe class to fit, but their wings (I guess)make up so much of their volume that any deluxe jet will feel smaller than a deluxe car. So mega class seems like the place for them. If the price point isn't available I'd take mega sized in the voyager line up and pack in some kind of mini figure. Starscream Thundercracker and Skywarp each coming with one third of Reflector for example.
For the Dinobots pack them with small insecticons.
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 11, 2014 10:25:16 GMT
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Post by Toph on Feb 11, 2014 10:36:11 GMT
Dinobots: That's too much discrepancy in size. I'd bring the old Mega class (Rotorstrom & Stalker, BW Scorponok, polar Claw and Inferno, TM Op and Megatron, TM2 Blackarachnia, BM Cheetor and Tankor, RID Sky Byte and trains) out of retirement. Do Slag, Snarl and Swoop as Megas. Grimlock and Sludge as Voyagers. I miss the Mega size. Some great toys ...... And some of the worst shelf warmers in history! Why on earth would you want Sludge to be so tiny? Diplodocids are the largest animals that ever walked the planet. They genuinely dwarf all but the most massive transformers. (One type was estimated to potentially have grown to 200 feet long, though the only known bone vanished, so it can't be held up "canonically"). Not to mention that like planes, his core robot mode will be smaller than a car of the same class would, since a good chunk of his plastic would be tied up in his neck and tail. A voyager sludge would probably only be as large in robot mode as a deluxe. And a sauropod thats as small as a T. Rex is just... -shutter- |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 11, 2014 11:29:26 GMT
Because the Dinobot ROBOTS have always been around the same size, which in turn has been bigger than the robots for the Autobot cars. The Dinobots are mechanical representations of the the dinosaurs: I don't think the actual scale of the Dino forms matters that much.
If you were doing Beast Wars style organic dinosaurs then yes maybe.
But to be honest I'd be happy just to have a Sludge: the last Sludge was the Euro classics reissue.
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Post by Toph on Feb 11, 2014 16:33:25 GMT
Because the Dinobot ROBOTS have always been around the same size, which in turn has been bigger than the robots for the Autobot cars. The Dinobots are mechanical representations of the the dinosaurs: I don't think the actual scale of the Dino forms matters that much. If you were doing Beast Wars style organic dinosaurs then yes maybe. But to be honest I'd be happy just to have a Sludge: the last Sludge was the Euro classics reissue. It matters to me. This is something I don't get, with this fandom. People who insist vehicle scale/accuracy is as important as robot modes, if not more so are generally accepted. But those who feel the same way towards animals tend to be treated like it's an invalid opinion. This is not saying you just said this to me, because you didn't. But this is something I encounter every time I ever state my opinion on this, and I see it every time someone else does as well. And usually by people who talk about how ridiculous it is to have the seekers be anything less than voyager because "jets." Its just as ridiculous IMO for dinosaurs to be represented so out of scale with other vehicles simply because "it doesn't matter because they're robots." I genuinely see this as incredibly hypocritical. |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 11, 2014 16:56:52 GMT
Would you apply the same logic to the Insecticons, various spiders, and Scorponok though?
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Stomski
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!! But don't worry. It won't happen again.
Posts: 6,121
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Post by Stomski on Feb 11, 2014 17:10:41 GMT
Yeah, I think it's easier to accept a giant spider or a smaller scale dinosaur than an out of scale vehicle as vehicles tend to look silly when the scale is wrong. Animals on the other hand can look more menacing when the scale is changed. Crazy-J - where do you stand on the Raptors in the Jurrasic Park movie?  ps mod - time to move to a scale discussion thread? (Do we have one? I remember G started one when he wrote that article, but they may have been on a previous life of the forum) |
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Post by Philip Ayres on Feb 11, 2014 17:59:30 GMT
As requested I've moved the posts to their own thread and then hoovered up several older threads on the same subject including a poll as to how big a certain toy should be.
If you see any posts on this matter I've missed then LMK
This does seem to be a recurring theme!
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 11, 2014 18:52:33 GMT
I can honestly say I have never looked at a toy car or robot dinosaur toy and thought it needed to be in scale with anything else. Robot Transformers aren't real. They are fictional. I have no need for them to relate to reality.
-Ralph
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The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
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Post by The Huff on Feb 11, 2014 19:26:24 GMT
Back in the G1 days, I would squint and just think "Powerglide is smaller than Bluestreak because he just turns into a small plane."
I apply the 'squint' logic to most things Transformers be it scale, continuity etc.
But not oversized combiners!
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 11, 2014 19:33:09 GMT
Never entered my mind as a kid. I just thought: 'that one is a plane and that one is a car', etc and they would have bedroom battles and so on.
-Ralph
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Post by Benn on Feb 11, 2014 20:19:07 GMT
Yup, Ralph is spot on there. I'd sooner have the modern day robot mode scales match with how they used to be, more than the alt modes, mind. So no huge Seaspray or Powerglide for me, thanks!
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 11, 2014 20:38:39 GMT
To me, it's all about character interaction. My toys have always interacted, either in adventures, battles, or on display. The various Transformers characters have a specific size that suites them, in my opinion, in my mind's eye, which more or less corresponds to their G1 incarnations. So you have your Autobot cars, you have your larger Decepticon Strike Planes, you have your larger leaders, and you have your other larger characters, like Grimlock, Jetfire, Dinobots etc. -For the purposes of character interaction-. You wouldn't have a representation of Bumblebee towering over Grimlock in an interacting collection! Maddness! I had, for example; some trouble fitting the large voyager sized Blitzwing into my C.H.U.G. collection, as his G1 toy was smaller sized. I quickly realised that infact Blitzwing 'suites' being larger! (But now Astrotrain seems a bit small...)
I Like the idea of Mega sized Strike Planes by the way whoever said that! Forgot about Mega size! Sizes have alteted a lot through the years. The recent Generations 'Voyager' Soundwave and Grimlock are just about as large as 'Ultra' Onslaught from a few years back! Grimlock and Soundwave are much larger than Classic Optimus!
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Post by Shockprowl on Feb 11, 2014 21:13:56 GMT
By the way, great God Moding, Big Phil! Read the entire thread, very funny, good work (even if I had forgotten you're the Grimlock-Should-Be-Big arch nemesisisis!!!!).
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Post by Toph on Feb 12, 2014 6:15:01 GMT
Would you apply the same logic to the Insecticons, various spiders, and Scorponok though? Honestly? I do. I think the g1 insecticons should be no bigger than scouts. I strongly dislike the generation cyberverse commanders that have been coming out, as they fit NOWHERE (starscream, megatron, optimus, and even bumblebee are too small to be use in any display. Its a pointless pricepoint with pointless minicons. Would rather the cost be put into the main toy and bump it back up to a true scout, then use class appropriate characters ), but I'm actually fine with the insecticons being in this scale. I actually would be fine if they got made in micromaster/minicon/legion scale. Some of the most ridiculous looking things i've ever seen are the insecticons in Prime. When a bug dwarfs Bulkhead, that's not scary. It's idiotic. I allow tiny animals to be portrayed as big robot animals by default, but within reason. Insecticons and swoop may be giant compared to their real life counterparts, but they should still be small toys/characters, or else it'll look just as silly in reverse as if they were *too* small (swoop as big as sludge is ridiculous. Insecticons as big as starscream is ridiculous. Just like swoop being a five foot tall robot, or the insecticons being an inch tall compared to 12' bumblebee) Scorponok, is a balancing act. He's never been portrayed as a giant. The fact that he needs to be big enough to be a threatening leader, and a headmaster keeps him from being placed at the bottom of the scale. I also like the energon approach of the third mode being a starfighter, which also helps justify him being an ultra. Keeping in mind that enough plastic mass would be locked in his tail and claws that like a theoretical sludge, and BM Megatron (as a real world example), that his robot mode would effectively be knocked down in size to a large voyager. As for beast era, thats a different can of worms. I'd say you have a valid argument to say I'm hypocritical for the Predacons. I'd argue saying I don't mind robotic animals being reasonably larger than real counterparts (like i mentioned before, i dont mind them being equated to a small carformer) but I'll also admit that can be viewed as being hypocritical. Also, fictionally, the dinobots have been based on real dinosaurs more times than they haven't. In the g1 cartoon, they were based on dinosaurs, but the cartoon was incapable of portraying anything correctly, even in it's own since of scale. Marvel G1, they were based on the savage land, which the arc thought were robots. Idw G1, they were based on actual dinosaurs, and designed by Don Figueroa to pretty much correct anatomy and proportions to real animals. The man understands dinosaurs. Personally, I despise mass shifting and think it should be banished. Metal that grows and shrinks is just stupid. But in a fictional sense, I would think that such a thing would be highly fuel expensive. And transformers would be reluctant to use it when at all possible. Thus big robots get big alt modes that fit their mass, and vice versa. This PoV also makes sense to me that more decepticons use it than autobots, being more willing to waist resources pointlessly. (Also explains why soundwave rarely shrank when he didnt need to) That said, it also helps to remember that I'm a dinosaur obsessive, and care more about how well their dinosaur mode is done, than their robot mode. Which is why classics Grimlock is superior to Masterpiece. His beast mode is not stuck in the '50s. And the ones like BW10th/Cybertron Megatron that strike a great balance are the best toys in the entire 30 year franchise. |
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Post by Toph on Feb 12, 2014 6:25:58 GMT
Crazy-J - where do you stand on the Raptors in the Jurrasic Park movie? The jp raptors were fictional animals made up for the movie. There is nothing like them in nature. They were fun movie monsters, but can't be taken seriously. On topic: I would like to see just one toyline and accompanying fiction attempt to stick to a realistic scale. Maybe just a "between movies" filler, like Prime, which will be disposed of after a few years. I don't require exact one on one scale with the toys, but a reasonable facsimile there-of would be nice. Small vehicles only appear in small toys, and so on. Prime actually would have been absolutely great to try this. And the reality is, if wheeljack, bumblebee, smokescreen, and knockout had been released as true scouts, or at least as cybverse commanders, with bulkhead and breakdown falling into deluxes, it would have been pretty much a great facsimile of scale (with arcee as legion). Though the show just goes into complete illogical ridiculousness, which is one reason I say the designers have no fundamental understanding of physics or basic engineering. The character models can't even keep scale on themselves. Ratchet with teeny tiny doors on his chest and monster truck wheels on his arms, and arcee who grows into a giant and who's wheels shrink to practical non-existance. And countless other inconsistencies like that on everyone. Mass shifting is just dumb, and looks ridiculous when put next to humans when the robot is considerably larger than the car or truck it transforms into. Nothing looks sillier when in truck mode, optimus's windshields are a realistic two to three feet tall, but suddenly are six feet tall when he's in robot mode. It's not quite as bad when it's the reverse, such as starscream. It's easier to overlook. But it's still pretty silly. Those who use the sunbow cartoon as the iconic be-all, end-all in terms of robot mode, I don't understand that, either. Megatron, Soundwave, Shockwave, and the seekers are almost always portrayed as equal height. Autobot cars are always smaller than Optimus, and that various from only being as tall as his shoulders, to only being as tall as his stomach, with bumblebee always being a head smaller than them (which he should be equals. Beetles were larger than nissan faireladys, and porches) However, megatron is always equal to optimus, while the seekers, shock, and sound are always smaller than optimus, and equal to the autobots like prowl and jazz. So I would like help understanding the logic of needing to use the cartoon as the base for robot scale, when there was zero scale consistency *in* the show. |
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