Marvel Cinematic/TV Universe Phase Whatever

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I'd say 'Captain Marvel' is absolutely essential viewing before watching 'The Marvels', while 'Ms Marvel' is useful to see but not essential (as I hadn't seen it, but still enjoyed the film). I'm not sure anything else is particularly important. But familiarity with everything that happened and was revealed in 'Captain Marvel' is crucial.

Martin

[Stomski]

The films other issues of having a weak supporting cast (the main villain in particular having little scene presence), the usual MCU scenes for misplaced brevity instead of contributing to the plot or character development, the final threat was resolved as quickly as it started, wasn't enough around exploring Captain Marvel's guilt/regret for both not engaging with Ramboau and the fallout from Captain Marvel and I came away feeling like the whole plot was construed just to have an excuse for the closing scene (where the uncanny valley of CGI faces really hit in).

Have a better villain lead, get rid of the cats and singing and build better drama around the finale (and connect it more to Earth itself so as to create at least a little relatable existential dread with the audience).

That said, the leads saved this film. Their dynamic was enjoyable.

[Pinwig]

Feb 25, 2024 5:48:29 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

I'd say 'Captain Marvel' is absolutely essential viewing before watching 'The Marvels', while 'Ms Marvel' is useful to see but not essential (as I hadn't seen it, but still enjoyed the film). I'm not sure anything else is particularly important. But familiarity with everything that happened and was revealed in 'Captain Marvel' is crucial.

Martin

It could be a victim of circumstance. Captain Marvel came out over four years before The Marvels on the other side of a global pandemic and actor's strike. I suppose we should have rewatched it, I'll do both together now for my own enjoyment, but for Mrs P, her summary of The Marvels was 'i liked the cats'. As an uninvested punter looking for a decent action film, the rest was incomprehensible - which isn't true of most Marvel films that are also part of ongoing stories. I also couldn't decide if Larson was playing Carol's awkwardness/journey toward finding a family brilliantly or terribly. It seemed inconsistent at times.

I think Stom's analysis hits the nail on the head.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Feb 25, 2024 10:03:02 GMT Pinwig said:

I think Stom's analysis hits the nail on the head.

Surely not when it comes to "get rid of the cats"??

Martin

[Bogatan]

Or the music. Both were the most creative/different parts of the film.

Grabbed the blu ray this morning as I only have a month of D+ left.

[Toph]

I agree on both of those. Even as someone who vehemently does not like musicals.
I think both the cats and singing was important for Kamala's inclusion. Even if she wasn't the origin of either, they are more or less her dynamic.

[Bogatan]

Feb 25, 2024 10:03:02 GMT Pinwig said:

Feb 25, 2024 5:48:29 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

I'd say 'Captain Marvel' is absolutely essential viewing before watching 'The Marvels', while 'Ms Marvel' is useful to see but not essential (as I hadn't seen it, but still enjoyed the film). I'm not sure anything else is particularly important. But familiarity with everything that happened and was revealed in 'Captain Marvel' is crucial.

Martin

It could be a victim of circumstance. Captain Marvel came out over four years before The Marvels on the other side of a global pandemic and actor's strike. I suppose we should have rewatched it, I'll do both together now for my own enjoyment, but for Mrs P, her summary of The Marvels was 'i liked the cats'. As an uninvested punter looking for a decent action film, the rest was incomprehensible - which isn't true of most Marvel films that are also part of ongoing stories. I also couldn't decide if Larson was playing Carol's awkwardness/journey toward finding a family brilliantly or terribly. It seemed inconsistent at times.

I think Stom's analysis hits the nail on the head.

My take is that they planned (and probably ended up with) a 2 hour 30 film that spent a lot of time covering the back story of all 3 characters and the bad guy in a more complete and structured way. Test audiences said that was boring but the 3 leads chemistry was great. So in the reedit Monicas backstory is cut to I walked through a glowy wall. And Kamalas to my nana gave me this bracelet. And similar cuts are made to most of the plot.

As someone who has seen everything, that seems sufficent (we are well past the point were I feel any time should be spent explaining powers unless it relates to the story), but for people who havent seen everything I guess its easy to miss details on first viewing.

The bad guy does seem like there should be more to her, but she also doesnt seem terribly interesting, so maybe her stuff was all boring and unable to do much about it they hacked it down to minimise the buzzkill. Ornot.

Either way I apprieciated the short but fun version we got.

[Bogatan]

I do wonder if the reception of Love and Thunder was also a factor in how The Marvels turned out.

I like L&T, but the plot does meander around alot. I can definitely see The Marvels originally being structured like it.

[Stomski]

I'll say this for the singing and dancing, Kamala really came alive in that scene despite not being front and centre so maybe I will allow it after all.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

There are a few deleted scenes on the Blu-ray.

Martin

[primenova]

Not on a main site just saw a comment about Marvel Onslaught film. But what if it has already happened?

If you take the MCU being the heroes reborn universe in 1996. So Onslaught happened causing all reality to split. Marvel heroes, Spiderman 2 splits, Fantastic Four 2 splits, X-men

But depends on how they do the Fantastic four film seeing they are set in 60's - but this would be in the pre Onslaught movie verse.

[Pinwig]

I've been having a tidy and dust on the physical media shelves today. The MCU department troubled me. I've been set on keeping a complete set of the films on Blu-ray but have struggled over the last few years to buy them because a lot of the films just aren't very good now. So I needed a logic as to how to get rid of some, which would kill the completionist urge. I settled on keeping the trilogies for iron man, Thor*, cap, spidey and guardians, plus the four avengers films and Captain Marvel. Simply rearranging them into trilogies instead of chronological order seemed to break the curse. I still have an order, which has kept the completionist demon at bay and means I'm freed of having to buy any more.

*Thor 4 never happened, alright?

[Stomski]

Sept 1, 2024 19:22:40 GMT Pinwig said:

and means I'm freed of having to buy any more.

The trick is realising you were always free.

[The Doctor]

How many Thor films can you see?

-Ralph

[Pinwig]

Sept 1, 2024 19:36:27 GMT Stomski said:

Sept 1, 2024 19:22:40 GMT Pinwig said:

and means I'm freed of having to buy any more.

The trick is realising you were always free.

Yes. Not mastered that quite yet.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Nothing to make me really want to sign up to Disney+.

Martin

[The Doctor]

I thought they had realised that having a high volume of stuff had damaged the brand? They were cutting back?

I don't want to go back the pandemic nonsense of having to watch loads of shows to follow the movie plots.

-Ralph

[Rich]

Doesn't look to be that much from the 'main' universe. Looking forward to Daredevil.


I'm amazed What If is still going. The episodes I've watched have been so dull and lacking in jeopardy but someone must like it. I will admit that Cap Britain having nothing to do with anything from the character's history did help sour me.

[The Doctor]

I watched a couple of episodes from S1 and felt no need to continue.

-Ralph

[Bogatan]

Cap Britain? Did I miss one?

I get What If continuing, its a bit of dumb fun that can make use of whatever live action actors are to hand.

And a spin off Marvel Zombies makes sense in that the comics kept being made so I assume had a fan base and they already had all the models from What If.

Everything else is stuff that was announced an age ago so unless they wanted to axe things half way through production these were always coming out.

[Bogatan]

And honestly Im okay with that. I ditched D+ due to the price increase, but Secret Invasion, very very very much aside, the Marvel shows have generally been good to occasionally great.

[Rich]

Oct 30, 2024 23:16:38 GMT Bogatan said:

And honestly Im okay with that. I ditched D+ due to the price increase, but Secret Invasion, very very very much aside, the Marvel shows have generally been good to occasionally great.

Agreed. My enthusiasm had waned to the point that I haven't watched Loki S2 even though I liked S1 but Agatha is good entertainment and episode 7 was a VERY satisfying bit of TV.

Why has my enthusiasm collapsed, I wonder...
Yes, Secret Invasion... The general online negativity takes a toll... Last Thor was crap... But mostly I think the super hero fatigue thing is real. Might be why Wand-atha works: mostly not super heroes.

[Rich]

As for Cap Britain, no, s/he hasn't featured but Cap Carter did and it's hard to see room for two people with such similar iconography.

[The Doctor]

I never made it to the end of any D+ Marvel show as they all felt like movies stretched out across multiple hours. They didn't feel like *TV shows*. There weren't any formats: just 'this is a long movie'**.

The 'only one story per season' style bores me to tears.

I've checked out and don't plan on watching any more.

-Ralph

**With the exception being She-Hulk, which did feel like a TV show. I stopped watching as it bored me, but at least it had a TV format.

[Toph]

I think superhero fatigue is real, and Marvel fatigue especially.
DC isn't nearly as prominent, but to date DC has about a 50% chance of being extremely bad. Marvel stuff may not be good, but usually are a competent and watchable movie.
That and it's just multiple marvel productions a year.

Just tired of marvel. Even stuff that should be exciting, aren't. James Gunn is in full control of DC movies, and I can't even get excited about that.

The first "superhero" thing to really excite me and make my not only rush to read it, but wish it were a movie, is a Harley Quinn graphic novel called "The Strange Case of Harleen and Harley."

[Bogatan]

The problem is as you say DC has always been about 50/50. Marvel was more consistant, but over the last 5 years even if they havent been bad they have dropped in quality.

Broadly speaking with the exception of The Marvels and maybe Aquaman 2, the good films have earned money, the bad ones not so much. But the longer it goes on the less likely people will take the chance on an expensive trip to cinema.

Combine that with the clearly cheaper/more rushed vfx reducing the visual reason for going to cinema to see those films. All the toxic online bullshit has had an impact too.

And cinema across the board is down since 2019, not just superhero films. Between covid, cost of living and the super quick turn around to whatever streaming service films will end up on its no wonder people are going out as often.

Yet an R rated Deadpool film just made over a billion dollars.

So yeah I see it less as fatigue more lack of consistant quality.

[Bogatan]

Oct 31, 2024 8:09:57 GMT Rich said:

As for Cap Britain, no, s/he hasn't featured but Cap Carter did and it's hard to see room for two people with such similar iconography.

Right. Carter never registered in that way to me. Or more Captain America and Britain (name aside) never really overlapped in that way for me.

[Rich]

The interesting thing about Wolverine/ Deadpool, which I haven't seen yet but wanted to, was that they made it feel like an event. I still don't know if the consensus is that it was good or bad or average but I will watch it on Disney.

Since Endgame, other Marvel films / series just haven't cut through to the mainstream. As you say, people need more of a push to get out and the general number of big budget 'flops' seems higher than pre-pandemic when there was more of a habitual audience. Sadly, it seems TF One will join the list.

I think there was probably complacency that being Marvel made it an event all by itself.

Daredevil will feel like an event to me.

[Toph]

I still think the smartest thing Disney could have done after Endgame was chill.
Not stop altogether, but just pull back to one or two movies per year for a few years, and have those be smaller stake, character driven movies.
The other tiring thing about Marvel is the constant "upping the stakes." Every single movie, even for teenage Spiderman, the stakes have to be global.
And when that wasn't enough, then they stakes had to constantly be universal. And when that wasn't enough anymore, now the multiverse needs to be threatened every single movie.

That's not interesting story telling. The whole world doesn't need to be in danger to make a compelling story. Just Spiderman's world.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

My biggest gripe with the post-Endgame MCU is introducing too many completely unnecessary ultra-powerful new races - the Eternals and Celestials, the bunch from Shang-Chi, all those gods in Thor: Love and Thunder. It's too much. I'd be happier if they'd just done films for a few years that build upon characters/races already established, having them interact in different combinations and develop their stories.

Martin