Salesmanship

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Who here is good at selling stuff?

I don't mean on eBay, I mean more like on 'The Apprentice', or like those people charities employ to stop people on the street and get them to sign up to them (which, having low incomes, the sellers are unlikely to have signed up to themselves).

Can you stop people and convince them to do/think something, because it's been assigned to you to sell that thing or idea - even if you're getting them to do, think or buy something that you wouldn't necessarily do/think/buy yourself? Just because it's your job that day to sell that thing or idea?

I can't. Completely useless. In fact, got a gentle chiding today (gentle because I'm an unpaid volunteer there on a goodwill basis) for not plugging the RSPB enough when telling people about the peregrines - entirely understandable from the young lady's point of view, as her bosses judge her on the number of new memberships coming out of the project, while I'm only doing it for the satisfaction of showing people nature in central Cardiff.

Which shows how useless I am at selling, because I am a member of the RSPB myself and do wish them success. I'm just not inclined to put energy into selling the idea to members of the public when there are other things I'd rather draw people's attention to.

I've never worked in the private sector - only ever done paid work for a university, a council, a government agency and a government department. I've never had to sell anything simply for the financial wellbeing of my employer. I don't know if I ever could. I can sell my views/knowledge of science, the environment, regulatory issues and so on (which is what I'm paid to give), but that's about it.

How about others here?

Martin

[Andy Turnbull]

I can't do the whole stop and pester thing (I've had to before and it was one of the worst things I've had to do) that being said I can do the selling and have done before in several jobs.

I worked in a jewellers and we got a horrific training session on the (insert random number) steps to an effective sale. Some slimy bastard american presenter and it made my flesh creep. Though a lot of what he said made sense. My then boss, who was a top bloke and I had a lot of time for was pretty much king of sales and was quite impressive. Never lied or exaggerated he just had the gift of the gab.

To be honest everyone sells as you've just said you've done Martin and it's just about being able to take the same methods and mindset and just applying them in different areas.

An increasingly large part of my job at work seems to be coaching my team (and others) on ways to do just that.

All hail the Evil Empire.

Andy

[The Doctor]

I have no skills in selling things. The times in which I have had I have failed miserably at and felt miserable doing it. I'm just not wired that way.

-Ralph

[grahamthomson]

Jun 7, 2008 19:31:56 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

her bosses judge her on the number of new memberships coming out of the project

This is the very heart of the soul-destroying nature of a lot of business. If people don't sell a certain minimum of units in a given time, they are demoralised with the looming threat of unemployment. Thus it "trains" them to lose their humanity and become more "cold" in their selling techniques. And so it repeats.

I hate, hate, *hate*, salespeople. Cars, mobile phones, office equipment, machinery, you name it and there's a false, slimy sales rep attached to it.

At work, a few years ago, we spent £250,000 on some printing equipment and went to many dealers and did a lot of homework on what exactly we wanted to buy. Before they get your money, the sales reps couldn't do more for you. First class train tickets to London to visit the show room, meals out (with the sales rep, having to suffer their inane sales pitches), one company even offered us a weekend to Berlin if we went with them!

Of course, once they get your money, you're dropped like a mouldy orange and it's like you never existed!

Another thing is all the training the sales reps get and sometimes it's so painfully obvious that they're using "tried and tested" techniques to get around you. And the latest thing is this NLP (neuro linguistic programming) thing where they use phrases and techniques that, apparently, make it hard for you to say no.

I appreciate that people need to make a living, and living in such a capitalist society as we do that there aren't many vocations out there that provide a decent wage (enough to support spouses, children and room to put them all) and so sales jobs are the only option, but if you're not careful it can strip you of all humanity and decency.

Oops! I almost forgot to answer Martin's initial question! I am not very good at selling at all. (Unless it's something that I would personally use/own and genuinely believe it could help, but that is rare.)

[The Doctor]

The terrible thing is that from what I know of NLP (which is little) it was developed as a form of therapy to help people cope/manage/deal with their issues positively, not to make people buy things!

-Ralph

[legios]

Jun 8, 2008 9:30:20 GMT The Doctor said:

The terrible thing is that from what I know of NLP (which is little) it was developed as a form of therapy to help people cope/manage/deal with their issues positively, not to make people buy things!

-Ralph

Indeed it was. But like a great many psychological techniques it is grabbed up by the folk who would rather manipulate folks personalities for their own ends rather than do something constructive with them. (If it isn't sales people, it's the psy-ops folk who seem to tend to end up quite well genned up on all these techniques).

Karl

[Bogatan]

Cant sell to save my life, but I was fairly good when I worked on the Deli and Rotisory (wrong spelling) at Somerfield. I guess I could be convincingly positive about the food.

I hate sales people pretty much refuse to buy anything if someone is trying to sell me it. If Im in two minds about an item then a salepersons comes across I'll just put it back.

Andy

[kayevcee]

When I started at Toys'r'us we had little pamphlets we had to carry around with boxes (each one representing an hour of the shift) that we put a mark in when we spoke to a customer, and another set of boxes where we mark off how many of each type of item we had to sell that day. Quotas were supposed to be marked on by department managers and they were without fail ludicrously optimistic- our store sells maybe one PC a week, and yet three staff members will have "PCs: 1" on their sheet every day.

On the back was an explanation of SUCCESSFULSALES, a 15-letter acronym extolling the virtues of obtaining a 'fistful of facts' and other buzzwords that made me want to chunder. Thankfully we don't do that now unless we have an inspection because even the store manager understands how utterly stupid, demoralising and ineffective it is. Now, most of the time we sell people what they want (or equivalent if they'll accept it) and if they want anything to go with it, awesome. Of course, this all changes whenever a Big Shot happens to be visiting, then goes right back to normal afterwards. The system exists as an embodiment of the massive gulf between boardroom ideas and the practicalities of actually working in a shop with customers who really don't want to be hassled by mugs in shirts while they're out buying toys.

-Nick

[Bogatan]

TRU was my first job one Christmas and I too hated the quota shit. I really hated that I was on the last shift of the day and after the first hour or so as parents came in on their way home it wasnt busy but still we told it was our job to make enough sales to meet the days targets.

Andy

[dyrl]

My answer:

1) I think I'm a very good salesperson; and I hope to become a better salesperson in future.

2) I can understand the loathing some folks exhibit towards salesmen - particularly the type who hassel, try to use psychological "tricks" or generally treat you as if you were a sheep that needed to be pushed and pulled this way or that to get the "correct response" - but I think this is not so much a condemnation of salespeople as it is a condemnation of BAD salespeople.

Personally, I think the most important thing is to build a lasting relationship with a customer. Any business needs returning customers to survive. Large businesses with large employee turnover often have trouble with salesmanship because the vast majority of their sales personel will no longer be with the company in the short term - let alone long term. Thus the reliance on "stupid" 16-letter acronyms and other gimmick like sales techniques - it's to keep the costs of training down - otherwise it would be impossible to re-train your entire sales staff every couple of months given the turnover in the service/retail sector.

I think that anyone who goes to work (as I did) for a fast food restaurant or a retail chain store and expects the managers to be Shakesperian and the training program to be on par with an MBA from Harvard needs to change their expectations - if you have smart or better ideas about salesmanship then present them to the manager or just implement them yourself - I'm sure your boss won't protest if your ideas generate higher sales.

But in general - no wage-earning salesperson who isn't paid on commission but rather has a flat hourly rate will have any incentive to do this: not even a benevolent loving heart is incentive enough (as the case of Martin shows) - this is because when you work for free - then your only scale for how much effort to expend is how much pleasure you derive from expending that effort. Likewise if you have a steady wage then it's not like the more you sell, the more you get paid.

Salespeople who work on comission, on the other hand, I would split into two categories: one of them is out of Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman. He's the fellow begging you to buy something you don't want which he has a lot of and guilting you into buying it because otherwise he's probably gonna commit suicide by inhaling gas in his basement.

Nobody likes these types of salespersons.

In my business, there are numerous times when I have too much of something and nobody wants it. Maybe I'm a "bad" salesman - but I'm not crazy - when this situation occurs you LOWER THE PRICE until you find people who will buy it for dirt cheap. You also want to diversify your assortment and find business partners who are willing to stack your wholesale order over a period of time as your sales returns come in and give you a picture of what the market looks like in terms of what people want.

This brings us to the second type of salesman: the type I aspire to be and hope that I am in the eyes of others: the type who is invisible unless called for; and immediately visible when needed.

The key to remember is that there are tons of people out there who WANT what you have to sell. You just need to find them - or at least make yourself a big shining spot on the horizon which says "I'M WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR" and people will come.

If they don't - you might want to reconsider your idea about what kind of merchandise you are selling.

When a salesperson has to resort to some wierdo psychic trickery - then it just gets kind of ...well... it's unnecessary.

There is a final aspect to remember:

I think that just as the Messanger is often the one to get killed because the content of the message was bad, so too the salesperson is the one to get all the hate because they are on the "front lines."

The knowledge that the salesperson ultimately just wants your money makes you feel somewhat icky about having to deal with someone who - in the final analysis doesn't care if you're happy or not - but just wants your money.

Well - if it's any consolation: a good salesperson wants your money over and over again and therefore will care if you're happy because he wants you to come back.

But sometimes - often times - people don't come back: for numerous reasons - and I think it's just not good to get over-emotional about this; the salesperson shouldn't take it personally if people don't come back or give him a bad rap: learn from it and move on.

In any event - I love being a salesperson. It's the most rewarding and fun work I've had in my entire life. In fact - when people complain and have bad things to say about me, it only motivates me to think of someway to appease these folks and get them to come and buy from me anyways.

It helps that I sell toys which I love. I probably would be a very bad car salesman, and wouldn't do well selling apples and oranges either.

In any case - I don't find sales to be dehumanizing: not any more or less than any other branch or field in life.

dyrl