|
|
Post by The Doctor on Aug 18, 2021 7:13:43 GMT
It's true. Kranix and Arblus were never seen again.
-Ralph
|
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 18, 2021 7:30:55 GMT
But they were the character finds of 1986
|
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Aug 18, 2021 8:51:40 GMT
I know.
BETRAYED BY HASBRO.
-Ralph
|
|
The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,243
|
Post by The Huff on Aug 18, 2021 9:06:34 GMT
But those characters did remain dead and out of the picture for the remainder of the US cartoon (except Prime) so their deaths did matter.
Toy wise, it was a big return (Powermaster Prime, then the Action Masters).
|
|
Jim
Thunderjet
Micromaster Backside Monitor
Now in glorious Ultra HD 4K
Posts: 4,918
|
Post by Jim on Aug 18, 2021 12:19:57 GMT
I think you need to rewatch this if you truly think that. About five years ago, after the kids started to like watching the cartoon, I bought and watched the movie without them, realising they would not enjoy the deaths of the established characters. But I wasn't sure, it'd been a while since I'd seen it, so I had to check it. So I watched the movie, all the way through, for the first time in years. And I can honestly say, as a Man, as a Transformers Fan, of sound mind, that the movie is inferior to the cartoon. The animation is not particularly better- it is still full of errors. But it's the plot, and the replacement of the characters THAT MADE 'The Transformers' the success it was, that -to me- makes it hollow and deeply unsatisfactory and insubstantial. Absolutely with you on this! For me there's a sort of naive charm to the first two seasons of the cartoon. There's a lot that's impressive about the movie, but it is also a barely coherent, unnecessarily bloodthirsty, assault on the senses without much of a satisfying plot, and in that respect shares a lot with the live action films. I sort of respect what it did and its legacy, and love some individual elements of it (the soundtrack, both score and songs; some top animation in places; Hot Rod's transformation sequences; "I've got better things to do tonight than die!"; a voice cast that's very useful in 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon), without actually much liking it as a film. |
|
The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,243
|
Post by The Huff on Aug 18, 2021 14:17:49 GMT
The Sunbow cartoon can't really be judges as a whole as it has very different stages.
Season One is actually the best in my eyes and underrated. A continuing story throughout the whole thing and pretty close to the original Marvel comics in a way - the story is ABOUT the Transformers on Earth. The Decepticons (particularly Megatron) are competent and very hard to actually beat.
Season Two turns the whole thing into 'The villain's scheme of the week' and has the same status quo reset as He-Man, Scooby Doo and most other cartoons of the time. I remember noticing this when I watched my first S2 episode (Atlantis Arise) and thought "Hey - they are making standalone episodes now!" Lot's of jumping the shark in this series too - from Kremzeek to Child's Play just to create adventures. Was also blatantly trying to sell you new toys. Megatron became a joke.
Then the Movie happened and (to me as a child) everything was suddenly serious and it was a masterpiece. (I was expecting the Autobots to go on another crazy adventure to find a powerful magic Unicorn or something).
Series 3 was more of a sci-fi show. It kept to the same batch of characters most of the time rather than the toy of the week and had some really interesting ideas - but all completely ruined by the incredibly poor animation.
|
|
chrisl
Empty
I still think its the 1990s - when I joined TMUK
Posts: 1,097
|
Post by chrisl on Aug 18, 2021 15:46:56 GMT
The Sunbow cartoon can't really be judges as a whole as it has very different stages. Season One is actually the best in my eyes and underrated. A continuing story throughout the whole thing and pretty close to the original Marvel comics in a way - the story is ABOUT the Transformers on Earth. The Decepticons (particularly Megatron) are competent and very hard to actually beat. Season Two turns the whole thing into 'The villain's scheme of the week' and has the same status quo reset as He-Man, Scooby Doo and most other cartoons of the time. I remember noticing this when I watched my first S2 episode (Atlantis Arise) and thought "Hey - they are making standalone episodes now!" Lot's of jumping the shark in this series too - from Kremzeek to Child's Play just to create adventures. Was also blatantly trying to sell you new toys. Megatron became a joke. Then the Movie happened and (to me as a child) everything was suddenly serious and it was a masterpiece. (I was expecting the Autobots to go on another crazy adventure to find a powerful magic Unicorn or something). Series 3 was more of a sci-fi show. It kept to the same batch of characters most of the time rather than the toy of the week and had some really interesting ideas - but all completely ruined by the incredibly poor animation. That's actually a really interesting way of describing the US G1 series - I hadn't realised Season One was a continuing story as all of the DVD and VHS releases I've owned haven't been in chronological order. But when I think about it: "More than Meets the Eye, Part 1" "More than Meets the Eye, Part 2" "More than Meets the Eye, Part 3" "Transport to Oblivion" "Roll for It" "Divide and Conquer" "Fire in the Sky" "Fire on the Mountain" "S.O.S. Dinobots" "War of the Dinobots" "The Ultimate Doom, Part 1" "The Ultimate Doom, Part 2" "The Ultimate Doom, Part 3" "Countdown to Extinction" "A Plague of Insecticons" "Heavy Metal War" Does work as an ongoing story. Season Two is incredibly hit and miss and could have been a really good ongoing story if, as you say Matt, they hadn't included all of the Jump the Shark moments. |
|
|
|
Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Aug 18, 2021 15:56:41 GMT
But those characters did remain dead and out of the picture for the remainder of the US cartoon (except Prime) so their deaths did matter. It mattered more in the US, where the cartoon was more widely shown and they only got half the Marvel comics. In the UK, you watched the Movie in the cinema in between getting weekly comics in which all those characters carried on living in the ongoing present-day stories post-Target:2006. Except possibly Skywarp who appeared at the time to get killed by Galvatron. You would worry a bit that they might die in 20 years time, but even that became less likely as the present-day saga diverged from one that might lead to the events of the Movie. So... big deal. But the Movie gave us T:2006 etc., so plus points for that. Martin |
|
The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,243
|
Post by The Huff on Aug 18, 2021 16:19:33 GMT
But those characters did remain dead and out of the picture for the remainder of the US cartoon (except Prime) so their deaths did matter. It mattered more in the US, where the cartoon was more widely shown and they only got half the Marvel comics. In the UK, you watched the Movie in the cinema in between getting weekly comics in which all those characters carried on living in the ongoing present-day stories post-Target:2006. Except possibly Skywarp who appeared at the time to get killed by Galvatron. You would worry a bit that they might die in 20 years time, but even that became less likely as the present-day saga diverged from one that might lead to the events of the Movie. So... big deal. But the Movie gave us T:2006 etc., so plus points for that. Martin That's true actually. My viewpoint (when watching the movie) was that the deaths were almost a cop out too in a way as it was set in the future - so this was how they WOULD die. They weren't technically dead yet. |
|
The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,243
|
Post by The Huff on Aug 18, 2021 16:27:15 GMT
That's actually a really interesting way of describing the US G1 series - I hadn't realised Season One was a continuing story as all of the DVD and VHS releases I've owned haven't been in chronological order. But when I think about it: "More than Meets the Eye, Part 1" "More than Meets the Eye, Part 2" "More than Meets the Eye, Part 3" "Transport to Oblivion" "Roll for It" "Divide and Conquer" "Fire in the Sky" "Fire on the Mountain" "S.O.S. Dinobots" "War of the Dinobots" "The Ultimate Doom, Part 1" "The Ultimate Doom, Part 2" "The Ultimate Doom, Part 3" "Countdown to Extinction" "A Plague of Insecticons" "Heavy Metal War" Does work as an ongoing story. Season Two is incredibly hit and miss and could have been a really good ongoing story if, as you say Matt, they hadn't included all of the Jump the Shark moments. Season One was also more of an ongoing for me (and no doubt others) as when I first watched it (and how I still think of it) was in chopped up segments on TVAM spread out over a long time. Probably why it was like the comics - that was also chopped up segments for us too. Atlantis Arise was the first 'full length' episode I saw - adding to the change of format/feel to a normal Saturday cartoon. |
|
Rich
Protoform
Posts: 880
|
Post by Rich on Aug 18, 2021 17:51:38 GMT
When I watched Prime's last stand and death on my mate's brother's vhs, it really hit me and even if I'd never got back into Transfomers, I still think it would have been burned onto my memory. I had some great moments watching the cartoon on video too but the movie was the one. You can say it's easy emotional manipulation but no more than Bambi and a million others and it was brought off beautifully. Like it or loathe it, it's difficult for any of us to watch the mivie objectively, too much baggage.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Aug 18, 2021 21:29:48 GMT
Like it or loathe it, it's difficult for any of us to watch the mivie objectively, too much baggage. Very wise words. |
|
Rich
Protoform
Posts: 880
|
Post by Rich on Aug 18, 2021 21:47:34 GMT
Like it or loathe it, it's difficult for any of us to watch the mivie objectively, too much baggage. Very wise words. Especially 'mivie'.  |
|
|
|
Post by Shockprowl on Aug 19, 2021 8:10:42 GMT
Especially 'mivie'. Yes I plan to use 'mivie' more in general conversation. |
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 19, 2021 8:40:13 GMT
Do they still make mivvis?
|
|
|
|
Post by The Doctor on Aug 19, 2021 8:41:37 GMT
I thought they called them fillums now.
-Ralph
|
|
Rich
Protoform
Posts: 880
|
Post by Rich on Aug 19, 2021 8:49:48 GMT
I hear from the kids that it's all about small rivers or tributaries or something that you surf down on the information super highway.
|
|
|
|
Post by Benn on Aug 19, 2021 8:53:31 GMT
Ah yes, tributariring the latest mivie on my smertfone.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bogatan on Aug 19, 2021 10:09:08 GMT
Watching the movie at home is why Sunbow is widely remembered as being better than it is. Because the movie is better than the show, even if it's fairly nonsensical, and until Rhino released the show on DVD for the first time, the movie on old vhs tapes is the only form of the cartoon most people had access to since it went off the air in what, '86? '87? What year did Powermaster Prime happen? Another of those cultural differences. The movie here seemed to disappear from video shelves quite quickly here, I never owned a official release on video till the late 90 or 2000s and then it was second hand. I dont even remember seeing it on VHS in a shop, but thanks to those late 80 early 90s Tempo releases I had a decent collection of cartoon episodes. Which wa good because we only ever got season 1 properly But America got the repackaged season 5 which would have kept new episodes on tv till 89ish and Syndication for even longer. Not really the same need for video releases as us which would leave the Movie vhs release to stand out more. |
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 19, 2021 11:49:26 GMT
Yeah my memory here was that The Movie went quite quick on VHS but the cartoon episodes lingered, especially through various budget and discount releases in the 90s. You'd still see the occasional TF VHS when DVDs started to hit.
I think the DVD was possibly the first rerelease the Movie had had here since 1987?
|
|
|
|
Post by Pinwig on Aug 19, 2021 12:08:11 GMT
The wiki says Maverick did a VHS in Feb 2000 just over a year before they did the first SE DVD in June 2001. Nothing before that in the 90s though since the original 1987 VHS. tfwiki.net/wiki/Maverick_Entertainment |
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 19, 2021 12:09:04 GMT
No, there was a VHS release in 2000 that pre-dated it, the DVD came out later that year.
|
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 19, 2021 12:09:23 GMT
That VHS was my first Amazon purchase.
|
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 19, 2021 13:06:03 GMT
No, there was a VHS release in 2000 that pre-dated it, the DVD came out later that year. I stand corrected. I was mainly DVD by then for new purchases, DW withstanding, and suspect by the time the VHS came out we had a fair idea the DVD was incoming. Does Andu own the 2000 vhs? |
|
|
|
Post by Philip Ayres on Aug 19, 2021 13:19:23 GMT
But even so that's a BIG gap - 13 years - between releases. Even allowing for long availability in the 80s it was probably gone from UK shelves for 10, 11, 12? years
|
|
|
|
Post by Andy Turnbull on Aug 19, 2021 13:24:10 GMT
No, there was a VHS release in 2000 that pre-dated it, the DVD came out later that year. I stand corrected. I was mainly DVD by then for new purchases, DW withstanding, and suspect by the time the VHS came out we had a fair idea the DVD was incoming. Does Andu own the 2000 vhs? Not any more. |
|
|
|
Post by Pinwig on Aug 19, 2021 13:41:04 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Bogatan on Aug 19, 2021 14:25:54 GMT
Didnt realise the Four soldiers got a vhs release, the DVD must have been my first new TF:TM.
So yeah that is a long gap between releases, considering the episodes were getting rereleased as late as G2.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bogatan on Aug 19, 2021 14:28:25 GMT
Doing a quick count of the different episodes that got vhs releases, it looks like we got around 30 in the end, I guess 1 in 3 or 4 isnt bad.
But I am losing my mind at those original US Vhs covers, they look so much like the Marvel UK comic did at the time and even have comic book recaps of the episode on the back.
I will be having myself some of those.
|
|
The Huff
Thunderjet
Hufferlover
Posts: 4,243
|
Post by The Huff on Aug 19, 2021 16:04:04 GMT
I stand corrected. I was mainly DVD by then for new purchases, DW withstanding, and suspect by the time the VHS came out we had a fair idea the DVD was incoming. Does Andu own the 2000 vhs? Not any more. Still have mine. It was the one with the plain black case and Autobot symbol wasn't it? I think it came out the same time as the 'Transformers Takara' one. |
|
