Cullen
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Post by Cullen on May 4, 2023 10:11:17 GMT
Just thought I'd start a non-controverial thread on the monarchy and the upcomming coronation of Charles III. Personally I think the monarchy are an outmoded institution and should be replaced, and having a large celebration of someone who is extremely wealth while people are struggling to pay their bills is pretty poor. But very interested to hear what people think about the coronation or royalty in general.
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Post by The Doctor on May 4, 2023 12:06:23 GMT
Not watching it. Will be in the cinema instead. I am not swearing allegiance!!!
Charles has plenty of money so should pay for the ceremony himself.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 4, 2023 17:26:57 GMT
We live in a democracy. If and when abolishing the monarchy becomes a priority for voters, it should and will be abolished. But only when the majority want it gone will the monarchy be an outmoded institution that should be replaced. As long as the majority like having it, it should remain. Democracies should have a right to hold onto a monarchy if they want to. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65326467"To gauge the public mood ahead of the coronation, Panorama commissioned a new YouGov opinion poll. The results suggest broad support for keeping the monarchy, with 58% preferring it to an elected head of state - which was supported by 26%." People are entitled to say what they think and should have a right to wave anti-monarchy placards by the side of the road, but in my view should not disrupt proceedings and spoil other people's enjoyment of the day. As far as the King himself goes, I like his work on the environment and his love of the Goon Show. We could do worse. Martin |
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Post by legios on May 4, 2023 18:20:07 GMT
I've got no particular interest in the House of Windsor(nee Saxe-Coburg-Gotha). If they wish to perform a ritual then they may do so, in the same way anyone has freedom to practice their beliefs provided they harm none. I have no more interest in watching this ritual than I had in any of their family funerals or weddings, and therefore will be choosing not to watch said ritual.
As to swearing allegiance... The idea of feudal overlordship is itself a relic of a deeply repressive, class-bound and unegalitarian age and I do not accept it as a valid basis for any kind of human interaction. So yeah, that is not happening.
I've got a book to finish, gunpla to build and films to get around to watching. I have far better things to do on Saturday than be bored.
(As to it being a historic event, I did not watch the swearing in of the current US President, or his Russian counterpart. Arguably far more historically significant events. So I see no reason to break that streak for a far less significant ritual)
Karl
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 4, 2023 18:21:28 GMT
Also, did getting rid of Emperors, Tsars and Kings make countries like China, Russia and France better countries than the UK, Belgium, Denmark or Japan? Does not having a monarchy make the USA a healthier democracy than the UK? Or is there actually zero correlation between having / not having a monarchy and being / not being a well-functioning democracy?
Martin
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Rich
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Post by Rich on May 4, 2023 19:08:23 GMT
I'll watch a bit just because it's an important thing happening in the country that I live in but that doesn't change the fact that monarchy is, to me, an utter absurdity.
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Post by legios on May 4, 2023 19:44:02 GMT
Also, did getting rid of Emperors, Tsars and Kings make countries like China, Russia and France better countries than the UK, Belgium, Denmark or Japan? Does not having a monarchy make the USA a healthier democracy than the UK? Or is there actually zero correlation between having / not having a monarchy and being / not being a well-functioning democracy? Martin We are definitely straying from the point of this thread here, but in brief I would argue that the form of a government and the degree to which it functions well are entirely separate axes. Likewise, the form of a government and the degree to which it acts in a benevolent manner to its citizens are independent axes. It is possible to have an absolute monarchy that functions very well, or one that functions very well badly. Likewise it is possible to have a democracy that functions extremely well, or one that functions extremely badly. But a monarchy is based on the axiom that one individual human has more _inherent_ value than others in that nation simply by regard to whom their parents were. I disagree with that principle, and it is for that reason I don't hold with monarchies. (Also, I'd argue that Japan is a good example of monarchy entirely distinct from both the quality and nature of a countries government - they have remained a monarchy through periods ranging from effective military dictatorship, "machine politics" two-party states, institutional corruption, mostly functional democracy through to almost rule-by-bureaucracy and on to whatever comes along in the next few decades). I'm going to cut myself short here, because this is extreme topic-drift here. But to sum up, I disagree with the idea that it is right for the social status, value or the privilege extended to one human being as opposed to another to be decided by their parentage. Karl |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on May 4, 2023 20:30:34 GMT
I can't see us ever being given a vote on getting rid of the Monarchy no matter how much of a democracy we have. And even if we do, as the run up to the Coronation has shown, it wouldn't be a fairly decided vote as none of the leading parties or media would give the idea much time of day no matter how many people might want it gone.
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Post by The Doctor on May 6, 2023 8:04:19 GMT
Happy 'Paying for a rich guy to get a special hat' day!
Seriously, however, Charles is very wealthy. I really do object to us paying for his Special Hat Day.
However, it has been a rubbish few years so if folk get fun out of watching it then fair enough. It's not for me. Mrs Ralph will be watching. I will be out.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 6, 2023 9:14:09 GMT
I would object to our taxes paying for it if I regarded the ceremony as being for his benefit, which it would be if it was an expensive private ceremony that nobody got to watch but him. But the ceremony isn't for him, it's for all the people who want to see it, which is a significant number. So it's just like anything that taxes get spent on which not 100% of taxpayers agree with.
My Dad wants to see it, so I'm watching it with him, and it's our morning amusement so we're benefiting from the expenditure.
Martin
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Post by blueshift on May 6, 2023 9:27:31 GMT
I'm on team Martin here.
We are making the quiche. Is anyone else?
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on May 6, 2023 9:31:47 GMT
No, I'm doing savoury cheese pancakes with mash and and gravy for lunch.
Martin
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Post by The Doctor on May 6, 2023 9:39:18 GMT
I'm on team Martin here. We are making the quiche. Is anyone else? McDonalds breakfast here. I had been heading to the local community space for breakfast but changed mind as they are showing the coronation. I didn't want to be the grumpy guy in the corner! Now off to the cinema! Which I imagine will be empty. -Ralph |
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Post by Benn on May 6, 2023 9:42:46 GMT
Day or motorsports for me. Formula E in Monaco and then F1 qualifying in Miami later on. I've had some toast. Might have a bit more.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 6, 2023 10:03:14 GMT
Comic shopping and then editing pages of The Runner.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on May 6, 2023 10:18:25 GMT
I'd absolutely argue the ceremony is for his benefit, the fact that large swathes of the public want to see it as well doesn't change that fact.
As an aside, people who have been turning up to peacefully protest are being systematically arrested by the Met isn't a good optic either. All security arrangements would have been discussed with him and the Royal staff ahead of this, so assent and approval to the tactics being employed has been given.
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Post by legios on May 6, 2023 10:47:11 GMT
I'd absolutely argue the ceremony is for his benefit, the fact that large swathes of the public want to see it as well doesn't change that fact. As an aside, people who have been turning up to peacefully protest are being systematically arrested by the Met isn't a good optic either. Yeah, the Met are very clearly not interested in doing their - already pretty awful - reputation any favours this morning. Karl |
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Post by The Doctor on May 6, 2023 13:49:19 GMT
I had a lovely relaxed time in a very quiet cinema.
-Ralph
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Post by Pinwig on May 6, 2023 14:08:01 GMT
Town was quiet this morning but I suspect that was as much to do with the pissing rain as the coronation.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on May 7, 2023 6:51:00 GMT
In the end, I stuck it on for 5 minutes during lunch, was bored and went back to sorting things to take to the tip.
The tip was wonderfully quiet between this Old Man Gets a New Hat business and the rain; a great day.
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Cullen
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Post by Cullen on May 10, 2023 8:57:35 GMT
I'm going to cut myself short here, because this is extreme topic-drift here. But to sum up, I disagree with the idea that it is right for the social status, value or the privilege extended to one human being as opposed to another to be decided by their parentage. That's basically my position. I'd like this country to be a meritocracy but your parents income and social standing are better indicators of educational attainment than anything else. It's hard trying to bring up my son to believe he can work hard to attain what he wants when the poster-children for wealth and priviledge are hardcoded into our democracy. |
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