The Mystery of the Legacy Era Minicons

[Philip Ayres]

Jul 28, 2023 19:29:35 GMT Philip Ayres said:

SDCC QnA: Legacy news.tfw2005.com/2023/07/28/sdcc-2023-hasbro-show-floor-qa-legacy-studio-series-video-games-more-488215

Q: Now that Jolt is coming with Powerlinx Hot Shot, are there plans to do the rest of the Minicons as well?

A: Mark and I have talked about it. We know Armada fans want them, we are discussing how to get them out there.

Q: Will Jolt get a retail release to pair with the normal Hot Shot?

A: Maybe at some point we will do a redeco that goes with retail Hot Shot.

Both of the Minicons revealed overnight:

I wonder what the plan is for these? More? Singularly, Multipacks, With larger toys?

Are we going to be able to get both in their Armada colours? Orange Jolt is kind of halfway between his original and Powerlinx colours. tfwiki.net/wiki/Jolt_(Armada)

But he is kind of orange in the cartoon:

[Philip Ayres]

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SonicBomberCore/posts/591408809845739

I can see Jolt's Minicon port in one picture.

Not sure if Whisper has one, suspecting he has a 5mm peg

[Philip Ayres]

In Hand Jolt

www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/post-wfc-trilogy-generations-toylines-speculation.1192381/page-3021#post-21540181

Jolt has a 5mm peg hole AND a handle - wish I'd posted the close up of the box image that made me suspect that now!

Which kind of explains how Whisper attaches to Sideswipe if he too has a fold down 5mm peg

[The Doctor]

Sideswipe getting into pegging was not on my 2023 bingo card.

-Ralph

[Toph]

Okay so the minicons offer a perplexing mystery.

Having both Whisper and Jolt, they physically do not fit anywhere in the current (or recent) price point format.

They're not big/complex enough for singular releases at the core pricepoint (but studio BB Ravage and G1 Rumble severely test this), but they're also too complicated with too many moving parts to fit the Battlemaster pricepoint. (Likewise as a micromaster two-pack)

However, I think they'd fit as a deluxe pricepoint as a three-pack. And given that we have four released Armada characters (and five unique decoes), one confirmed coming (Tidalwave), one cybertron with a canon partner (metroplex) one not rumored but very likely (Wheeljack), and one rumored, I think the threepack deluxe format is the most efficient one.
1) Sparkplug, Over-Run, and Leader-1
2) Jolt, Swindle, and Windsheer.

And if they're not gangmolded, it leaves open the mix and match option for their repaints.
3) Powerlinx Jolt, Ramjet, and Clench
4) Drillbit, Zapmaster, and Corona Sparkplug

But then there's also not even a rumor of any more of these guys. But then, there were also no rumors of Whisper and Jolt, either.

[Philip Ayres]

I'd been thinking for a while the Legacy Minicons needed their own thread. Toph's post pushed me over the edge. I'll gather in some further suspects on the matter.

[Philip Ayres]

Some thoughts, some of which are retreading ground our US correspondent has covered:

Toys that are Out needing Minicons

Metroplex - Drillbite
Starscream - Swindle
Megatron - Leader-1
Optimus - Sparkplug
Hotshot - Red Jolt
Powerlinx Hotshot - Yellow Jolt

Minicons that are OUT

SG Whisper with Sideswipe
Orange Jolt with Powerlinx Hotshot

From there we can infer the existence of the following Minicons

Whisper for/with Wheeljack
Red Jolt for Hotshot
Yellow Jolt for PL Hotshot

The existing toys imply the following repaints which in turn imply the following Minicoms:

Starscream repainted as Thundercracker - Zapmaster
Megatron repaint as Galvatron* - Clench
Optimus as various repaints - Sparkplug repaints/remoulds

* Galvatron has been listings leaked as has Vector Prime who would need a Safeguard Minicon

We know Tidal Wave is coming as a Titan which may or may not have a Ramjet minicon packin, which in turn may help to explain why the Earthrise Ramjet PR disappeared.....

Megatron's Leader 1 and Metroplex's Drillbit would seem likely to be the same toy remoulded

It is not a huge stretch to think that Vector Prime's Safeguard could be remoulded as Optimus/Nemesis' Over-run/Run-Over

[Toph]

And Swindle can be remolded into Mirage, which opens the Skyboom Shield, and all the other minicon combiners (which work best at the suggested/hypothesized deluxe three-pack).

And those four sets (Perceptor, Star Saber, Skyboom Shield, and Requiem Blaster) are the most likely minicons to get updates outside of the partners.

[The Doctor]

It would be nice to see Minicons properly return.

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

Mar 17, 2024 20:47:53 GMT Bogatan said:

Picked up Legacy Megatron to compliment Crystal Convoy. Scale actually works pretty well.

Feb 29, 2024 17:05:02 GMT Jim said:

I opened Legacy Armada Starscream; I kind of really like it despite my usual reservations about toy homages where they've gutted them of play features.

While I fully understand that feeling, my big gripe with Armada was the loss of articulation that Beast Wars had made standard. While I miss some of the play features and can not comprehend why there are no minicon ports on Megatron

There are no original Minicon Ports on Megatron. Sneaking one or two in might have been nice

There's tons of 5mm holes thought and since Arms Micron it's been standard for the Minicons to have 5mm posts. The two Legacy era Minicons we have so far both have fold out posts. Expect that on future Legacy Minicons.

See tmukhub.proboards.com/thread/12085/mystery-legacy-era-minicons

Go dig out your Siege era Micromasters. Most of them have a 5mm post and can double as Minicons. Megatron likes the Air Strike team's sword

[The Doctor]

No, Phil, no! Micromasters are not mini-cons!!! You go too far this time!

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

Do you not think that Minicons are Micromasters who've just had their concept tweaked to integrate them with larger robots?

[Andy Turnbull]

No.

[The Doctor]

Mar 17, 2024 23:02:38 GMT Philip Ayres said:

Do you not think that Minicons are Micromasters who've just had their concept tweaked to integrate them with larger robots?

No.

Also, Micromasters were invented first you mad man!!!

The Siege Micromasters are also DIRECT REMAKES of G1 Micromasters. NOT ONE OF THEM IS BASED ON A MINICON.

-Ralph

[Philip Ayres]

Mar 17, 2024 23:41:45 GMT The Doctor said:

Mar 17, 2024 23:02:38 GMT Philip Ayres said:

Do you not think that Minicons are Micromasters who've just had their concept tweaked to integrate them with larger robots?

No.

Also, Micromasters were invented first you mad man!!!

I never said Minicons were first

Mar 17, 2024 23:41:45 GMT The Doctor said:

The Siege Micromasters are also DIRECT REMAKES of G1 Micromasters. NOT ONE OF THEM IS BASED ON A MINICON.

-Ralph

The Air Strike Patrol's combined mode owes something to the Air Defence Team's surely?

And the entire "using the smaller transformer as weapon that can attach to the larger TF" comes from Armada's Minicons

[The Doctor]

You do realise it is possible to have more than one set of planes?

Not *everything* has to relate to older stuff.

-Ralph

[Jim]

ISTR many years ago people using a LEGO connector piece to turn Mini-Cons into hand-held weapons, feels like that ought to work in this context as well (if you don't mind mixing LEGO into your Transformers - I did mind so I never did this!).

[The Doctor]

NOOOOO!

-Ralph

[legios]

Mar 18, 2024 10:36:06 GMT Jim said:

ISTR many years ago people using a LEGO connector piece to turn Mini-Cons into hand-held weapons, feels like that ought to work in this context as well (if you don't mind mixing LEGO into your Transformers - I did mind so I never did this!).

LEGO Technic piece - it works...ish... if you don't mind the grip tending to spin in the socket on the mini-con. It limits the poses that you can put the toys in because they will rotate under the influence of gravity as the technic peg is not wide enough to create sufficient friction against the inside of the socket.

Karl

[Benn]

Mar 17, 2024 23:46:58 GMT Philip Ayres said:

And the entire "using the smaller transformer as weapon that can attach to the larger TF" comes from Armada's Minicons

The Targetmasters say hi.

[Philip Ayres]

Yes, there's an element of Targetmasters to some Minicons - notably Overrun and Prowl - but Targetmasters are handheld guns that plug into one specific place on the vehicle. Minicons expand that

[Benn]

So Micromaster + Targetmaster = Minicon? Which mean that by taking elements of two things you have created one wholly new thing.
Like, you don't bake a cake and say you've evolved the concept of an egg.

[Fortmax2020]

Oh no, not more Phil Mathematics!!

[Toph]

Minicons are not the same species as Micromasters. They are a wholly new thing that evolved a near identical appearance through convergence evolution, because they were filling the same environmental niche.
It's like Ichthyosaurs and Dolphins.

It's only now that this is becoming a biological problem since Micromasters have been brought back from extinction. Both groups are now competing for the same resources, and are also confusing some of our fandom with their similar appearance.

Targetmasters however only share a similar size. They do not fill the same niche, although some minicons cross over into Targetmaster territory. But to be fair, targetmasters were also extinct at the time, as well.

While Minicons typically do not share a niche with the 'masters, save for a few notable exceptions, the newly deextinct Micromasters have all been genetically enhanced to act as Targetmasters specifically.
There is a valid argument to be made about the ethics of this, but I'm not the one who will make it.

[Toph]

Unlike the Micromasters in their day, the Minicons had a symbiotic relationship with the megafauna of their time.
The larger species could not fully function without the minicons, and when the Minicon population went into decline (partly because of the invasive Omnicon species who were not native to that niche), the larger transformers who were reliant on minicons, had to adapt without them (thus, the cyberkeys).

[The Doctor]

Couldn't put it better myself.

-Ralph

[Andy Turnbull]

Mar 19, 2024 8:09:42 GMT Benn said:

So Micromaster + Targetmaster = Minicon? Which mean that by taking elements of two things you have created one wholly new thing.
Like, you don't bake a cake and say you've evolved the concept of an egg.

I think we all absolutely need to start doing that from now on.

[Philip Ayres]

news.tfw2005.com/2024/08/03/sdcc-2024-hasbro-interview-john-wardens-return-generations-studio-series-combiners-more-513802

TFW: Do you think Minicons sold as their own packs are possible as well?

John: Absolutely. The Armada universe is filled with incredible Minicons. When I first came to Hasbro, I worked at Kenner years ago – a lifetime ago – and I was in a boardroom with Archer when he was pitching the idea of Minicons. And so I’ve been along the ride for the lifespan of it, sort of in a tertiary sense. I was working on Pokemon at the time, but what’s cool about Minicons is they came to rise in the same time Pokemon sort of came to rise. And I always admired, in Archer’s office, they had one of these like, acrylic cases with all the Minicons in it. And I would just stand there, like a dork, and just stare at it. On of the things I love about the Minicons and the Armada series in general is the groupings of them. I know that in Thrilling 30 we touched on it, but I think that there’s absolutely potential for more. What I don’t want to do is kind of shortchange these characters and make them like, not meaningful redecos, because a lot of them really have – at the time the style was asymmetrical, really unique heads, the deco colorways are really, really nicely done. So I can see a world where we bring some of those guys back. I’m pretty sure some of those old tools still exist, so I’m gonna have to, like, really get dorky and dig into what tools exist, could we redo them with more articulation, like how would we do it, how many do we include, that type of stuff. But I think there’s definitely a share of Armada characters that don’t come with their Minicon companions and I know there are people out there that’ve been asking, so there’s room for that for certain.

[Toph]

Maybe this run of Warden won't be so hardcore All G1, all the time!

...or is that too much to hope?

[Philip Ayres]

Alas we need to upgrade the AWOL Minicons list:

Toys that are Out or Announced without their Minicons

Metroplex - Drillbit
Starscream - Swindle
Megatron - Leader-1
Optimus Prine - Sparkplug
Hotshot - Red Jolt
Powerlinx Hotshot - Yellow Jolt
Tidal Wave - Ramjet
Vector Prime - Safeguard
Thundercracker/Supermode Starscream - Zapmaster
Galvatron - Clench
Wheeljack - Wind Sheer

Minicons that are OUT

SG Whisper with Sideswipe
Orange Jolt with Powerlinx Hotshot

From there we can infer the existence of the following Minicons

Whisper for Wheeljack
Red Jolt for Hotshot
Yellow Jolt for PL Hotshot

The existing toys imply the following repaints which in turn imply the need for the following Minicoms:

Optimus as various repaints - Sparkplug repaints/remoulds

Megatron's Leader 1 and Metroplex's Drillbit would seem likely to be the same toy remoulded. Swap the cab's direction, change the guns out for drills.

It is not a huge stretch to think that Vector Prime's Safeguard could be remoulded as Optimus/Nemesis' Over-run/Run-Over[/quote]