Let's go back to 1989!

[The Doctor]

Like AHM v MD, back in 1989 in the UK comic there were two equally different takes on Transformers! But which was best? Time Wars! Parts, er, 3 and 4 of The Underbase Saga? Try to imagine it's 1989! Let Dreadwind know how you feel.



-Ralph

[charlesrocketboy]

Sorry Dreadwing, but sausages win this round.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

The Underbase was best as it had a coherent plot. It was also the ending Starscream the character was always building up to in the comics, a fine way to go out, and he should not have been brought back in my view.

Martin

[Andy Turnbull]

While Time Wars was much stronger artistically than The Underbase Saga it's the Underbase Saga that gets the nod. Time Wars was not the end capper of the Galvatron saga deserved - we were cheated out of an Ultra Magnus/Galvatron final showdown. BOOOO!

Underbase did have the more coherent plot and as Martin says it was the perfect end to Starscream and it did set the seeds for the softening of Scorponok which Furman ran with.

Andy

[grahamthomson]

I think they're both rotten stories, poorly implemented and incoherent.

But I think, narrowly, Underbase is the worse of two evils. Time Wars I enjoy more and it makes more sense than The Underbase. To me, at least, anyway!

[charlesrocketboy]

Jan 15, 2009 10:25:41 GMT Andy Turnbull said:

we were cheated out of an Ultra Magnus/Galvatron final showdown. BOOOO!

I wonder how that would've gone. Would Magnus have sacrificed himself to finally bring Galvatron down, or would this be the one story where he didn't have to?

[The Doctor]

I thought the inevitable conclusion to their story would be that they both cancel each other out and neither of them walk away.

-Ralph

[Andy Turnbull]

That would have been the proper ending in my head.

Andy

[grahamthomson]

Jan 15, 2009 12:11:32 GMT The Doctor said:

I thought the inevitable conclusion to their story would be that they both cancel each other out and neither of them walk away.

-Ralph

I think that would have been the perfect ending to Ultra Magnus/Galvatron.

In many ways, I think the ending of the Beast Machines television series is the best ending for Optimus Primal/Megatron. Perhaps that "sort of" story/theme/motif is suitable for Magnus/Galvatron.

[blueshift]

But they already did that at the end of Fire on High with the volcano, can't do the same thing twice!

[Andy Turnbull]

But neither of them died they just had extended naps!

Andy

[blueshift]

We didn't know it at the time!

[Andy Turnbull]

I suspected they would both be back, even then as a kid. Funnily enough the only TF death I thought would be permanent when I read it was Ratchet's.

Andy

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I'm guessing you're referring to toy character deaths. The likes of Scrounge were clearly dead as doornails. Then again, Straxus and Impactor returned from the dead. (To die again.)

Ratchet's death in the second-to-last US issue would have been a good death, provided the Decepticons he took with him also stayed dead. But once we learnt that even Starscream had survived, it seemed a safe assumption to me that Nucleon-soaked Ratchet was also still alive and kicking.

Sadly, while it was Starscream's death in the Underbase saga that deserved to be permanent, in the end it was Ratbat who became the first toy character to actually die and not be resurrected.

Sorry to see Underbase is losing to Time Wars. I thought it was a relatively well thought-out story, taking Club Con and The Flames of Boltax into consideration. Certainly better plotted than Galvatron's final year which was all over the place and seemed to be made up as it went along, changing direction all the time. It was very rude of the UK comic to spoil Uncle Bob's flow by interrupting his story to insert Time Wars where it didn't belong chronologically.

Martin

[charlesrocketboy]

Jan 15, 2009 16:14:24 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

Galvatron's final year which was all over the place and seemed to be made up as it went along

It probably was made up as it went along!

[The Doctor]

Jan 15, 2009 13:15:14 GMT blueshift said:

We didn't know it at the time!

Indeed. I thought they were pan bread. I was still a couple of years away from noticing that in comics, apparent death is rarely the end!

-Ralph

[Nigel]

Jan 14, 2009 22:48:00 GMT The Doctor said:

But which was best? Time Wars! Parts, er, 3 and 4 of The Underbase Saga?

There's only one way to find out. FIGHT!

[KnightBeat]

Jan 15, 2009 13:22:02 GMT Andy Turnbull said:

I suspected they would both be back, even then as a kid. Funnily enough the only TF death I thought would be permanent when I read it was Ratchet's.

Who would have been able to repair Ratchet? The Autobots had only two medics - First Aid and Fixit - and one of them was only 7 foot tall. No wonder they developed the CR chamber.

[KnightBeat]

Actually, Wheeljack would have been able to repair him. However, he'd probably have an ED209-type body.

[grahamthomson]

Wasn't Jetfire a trainee medic at some point in the comics?

[Grand Moff Muffin]

No, but Optimus Prime was according to the 1986 annual.

You don't actually need a TF that turns into an ambulance to repair TFs. The Ark repaired them in 1984 all on its own, HiQ rebuilt Optimus Prime, Brainstorm upgraded Fortress Maximus, Grapple built Omega Supreme, the Deceps managed to repair each other well enough before Shockwave built the Constructicons. Grimlock just pumped his comrades full of Nucleon and stood back. Wheeljack was referred to as the Earthforce medic. Etc., etc. It just so happens that the Ark thought an ambulance would be a good disguise mode for the best Autobot medic.

Martin

[The Doctor]

Perhaps rudimentary 'repair and build' functions are hardwired into most Transformers then?

-Ralph

[KnightBeat]

Good points. I had intended to argue that certain characters had skills that made the mental leap to repair duties much smaller. Grapple's architectural knowledge might be applied to the creation of transforming body forms and Wheeljack showed an apptitude for building non-sentient robots. The knowledge gap required to perform robot repair is much lower when compared to someone like Grimlock. However, I just realised that even Hot Rod was able to make basic repairs on Kup in the movie. I guess you're right, guys.

It's easy to forget (or it is for me anyway) that these characters are machines that can have new skillsets uploaded into their minds, Matrix-style. The original Transformers series portrayed several characters with an aptitude and form (e.g vehicle mode, built-in tools... hands) to fulfill specific functions in the story. I'm thinking of Ratchet and Perceptor as particular examples of characters that are allocated to a specific role, almost to the exclusion of everything else. However, a task may be allocated to others if they were provided with specific information. The major difficulty in taking this approach is that the stand-in medic may not have the correct body configuration to perform a task and (potentially) the interaction between the existing personality and new data may produce an unexpected reaction.

[legios]

Given that the Autobots and Decepticons have been involved in a large scale global war for a considerable period by the time of Arklaunch, it would make sense for a lot of them to have some basic data on repair and maintenance "on tap" as it were.

If nothing else it would allow them to make temporary repairs on their comrades long enough to get them back down the line to someone who had access to better tools and more extensive technical databases on hand.

There may be good reasons, in terms of storage capacity limits, that they aren't all running around with comprehensive anatomechanical databases. But very likely one or two robots in each squad (probably at platoon/squadron level for Decepticons) would be the designated "first aider"

Karl.