The Golden Compass

[gloriana]

MartinM asked me to be sure to post a review of the Golden Compass when I'd seen it (going at 2pm today). As it's 12.30 I thought I better open the thread and I'll post the review when I get back. Expect it c. 6pm.

Definitely a good "cinema" day. Dreich beyond all belief.

I read the HDM trilogy in one weekend (took me just about 9 hours) and I loved it. I also didn't quite get my head round what Lyra and t'boy were supposed to be doing to get their daemons to fix.

Happy Saturday folks!

Rowan

[Bogatan]

I saw it on Wednesday, everyone at work was getting a bit excited. I think they all wished they had got to work on it.

Gloriana I'll leave the full review to you, but I will say that I enjoyed it and I think it did a fair job of translating the book.

They did something to the end which is annoying but I can understand why they though I think they should have had some more faith in the audiences attention span. The kid stars were all very good.

It was a more grown up film than the early Potter films but not quite as mature as I hoped for of such a good book. Still giving me hope for the sequels.

Andy

[gloriana]

Err... right.
Lyra (well cast) is acomplished liar. Foils plot to kill "uncle" Azriel (Daniel Craig), promises small sidekick to rescue him should the local bogey monster (the Gobblers) get him. Gets given altheiometer as a leaving present and told keep it hidden. Whisked off to the social whirl that is London (in SXFed-out airship - too cool for words) she gets suspicious that Mrs. C is up to her eyeballs in Gobbling. Worse yet, the creepy monkey finds the golden altheiometer (which I'm dying to call a SatNav but I won't). Exit stage window. Captured then rescued by the sea-faring Pikeys, they set off to rescue the kids before they are well and truly Gobbled. Enter the witch Serafina (gorgeous and good casting) and into the North. There, Baddies exit Chased by a Bear (ok a Panserbjorn) who then joins up with Lyra and the Pikeys to rescue the kids. Fight, capture, thrown before the current King of the Armoured Bears Lyra does her lying bit again and pits Good Armoured Bear (GAB) against King of the Armoured Bears (KAB). Fight...well I cringed. Exit to where the kiddies are captured, Lyra and her daemon nearly encounter the cruelest cut but ... again manage to escape. And the rest I think I'll leave to those of you who want to go see it. Suffice it to say that even though parts of the plot are merged, rearranged a bit and heavily cut, the amazing SFX really bring the world to life - and parts of the casting are truly spectacular. My only complaint is that it is too short (OK, so 2 hours is quite a long film but so much was cut, it wasn't nearly as good as it should have been). And of course we didn't see enough of Daniel Craig (YMMV).

Rating: 3/5 - a good way to spend a truly soggy Saturday.

Rowan

[Bogatan]

Well apparently the books ending was filmed but taken out because it was too... something. Probably after the big action scene executives or test audiences were confused why the film was still happening, plus I think it contained talk of original sin. As every religious element has been stripped from the film its not surprising. Now it will likely be tacked on to the beginning of the second one. It'll work there fine and hopefully kick the film off with all the religious talk removed from this one. But it is a waste of a perfect cliff hanger.

I was amused to see that even taking out all religious talk the Christian League is planning a boycott. The last time they did this was the Da Vinci Code. If this film is as successful the studio might have the bottle to properly translate the other books to film.

Andy

[rurudyne]

I've never understood the "boycott" notion if you're displeased with something. Certainly don't go to a movie if you have reason to believe that it offends whatever sensibilities involved (which works for all POVs since almost all POVs can be offended). Also, feel free to communicate why you take objection to something to as large an audience that will tolerate you (such as when I try to point out that a certain PhD and bio-ethicist is either completely clueless when it come to basic Socratic philosophy or else essentially a diabolical rhetorician who knows exactly the sorts of intellectual abuses he is offering as "science").

But if McDonalds sells a Happy Meal featuring a toy from the movie don't go all ballistic and try to strong arm people into not having any business with McDonalds. If you feel that strongly about it call them and tell them so yourself. It doesn't take many calls from people to get even a large corporation's attention.

But "boycotts" add a air of heroic defiance to resisting the resistance inspired by whatever it is that people are offended by.

Which is nvts, if you ask me.... And you didn't.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Thanks, Rowan.

I agree that all the boycott stuff is pretty pointless. I just get irritated by contemptuous one-sided attacks on religion like those that come from Richard Dawkins (who had his own thread on the old Hub) and Philip Pullman. I don't think their works should have huge controversy attached to them, I'm just disappointed that they get to be higher profile than their apparent poor appreciation of the subject warrants - generally as a result of them being extremely talented and intelligent in other departments (writing/authorship, media handling, etc.).

Still undecided about whether to see the film, though I probably will. I suppose I need someone to come on gushing with praise for it, saying it's film of the year or suchlike, to pique my curiosity.

Martin

[gloriana]

Unfortunately I'm not going to be doing the gushing bit. The ending floored me, I was so grr about it. The problem with reading in the God vs Anti-God thing into things like LLW and HDM and even LotR is that it detracts from its primary purpose - which is to be a bloody good read. Karl will tell you that I hated dissecting literature and poetry (particularly poetry) when I was at school. I read because it take me places I've not been before, whether it's somewhere down the road or another universe. If it fires my imagination, I don't want to know that it's a rehash of a plot that everyone and his auntie uses. It detracts from excellent use of language, fantastic concepts and wonderful imagery.

Anyway, I have a pathalogical hatred of bigots. That bizzare church which celebrates the deaths of service personnel in the States and calls AIDS divine retribution for the US tolerating homosexuality/going to war/doing anything liberal makes my fists itch. Does that make me prejudiced against the prejudiced?

Rowan

[Grand Moff Muffin]

gloriana said:

The problem with reading in the God vs Anti-God thing into things like LLW and HDM and even LotR is that it detracts from its primary purpose - which is to be a bloody good read.

Thing is, I'm not sure that is the primary purpose of His Dark Materials. When I started reading them, I thought they were just a bloody good read. But by the time I finished, it seemed more like the bloody good read part was just a build-up/hook leading to the main message, which comes when one of the heroic characters reveals to the children (both those in the book and those reading) that Christianity was all one big mistake and all those who support it are the bad guys. It was fairly explicit in that message, and the author knew what he was doing when he wrote it.

Similarly, The Chronicles of Narnia were definitely written to deliver a Christian message. Aslan pretty much does tell the children (both those in the book and those reading) that in the 'real' world he is Jesus Christ, and they do all go to Heaven at the end. There's stuff towards the end of the Narnia series that has an 'other religions are evil' implication, which I dislike in the same way as I dislike the anti-Christian message behind HDM - it smacks of ignorance/prejudice concerning those other religions.

The Lord of the Rings was just written to be a bloody good read, however. It builds on and revels in the world's great mythological heritage rather than trying to detract from or stifle it. That's why it's in my Top 10 reads of all time and the other two aren't. It opens the reader's imagination rather than trying to place rules and limits on it, and the author shows in his writing his own appreciation for the story traditions of many different cultures.

I read because it take me places I've not been before, whether it's somewhere down the road or another universe. If it fires my imagination, I don't want to know that it's a rehash of a plot that everyone and his auntie uses. It detracts from excellent use of language, fantastic concepts and wonderful imagery.

I know what you're saying. However, it is worth knowing if something you enjoy has built on earlier material, because you may then find that you enjoy that earlier material as much or even more. Reading the Ring Legends of northern Europe has certainly enhanced my appreciation of Tolkien, and the classic texts of Arthurian legend and Greek mythology are essential reading for anyone who enjoys modern interpretations of those stories - not just because they are generally a superior read, but also because they can make you see greater depths in the modern versions (assuming there are greater depths to see).

Anyway, I have a pathalogical hatred of bigots. That bizzare church which celebrates the deaths of service personnel in the States and calls AIDS divine retribution for the US tolerating homosexuality/going to war/doing anything liberal makes my fists itch. Does that make me prejudiced against the prejudiced?

Well, prejudice means pre-judging, i.e. forming an opinion of someone before you properly know them. So long as you get your facts straight about the people in question before your fists get itchy, it isn't prejudice.

Martin

[Mark_Stevenson]

Well, I have to say I thought it was one of the worst films I've seen in years.
The direction was lazy, the child acting infuriating, there's no sense of a narrative arc, it's completely devoid of any intellectual / moral / spiritual fibre. It's clear that no expense has been spared in terms of the cast and CG, but it's clear that the content of what I am told is a very dense, plot-heavy novel has been compressed to an almost bullet-point degree and it's had almost anything that might offend anyone's belief systems utterly boiled out of it. The only way you could find this offensive is if you're one of those eejits who thinks Harry Potter is going to bring about the end of civilisation.
Now, I've never read the books. I went to see it with the uvver arf who ADORES them. And he hated it even more than I did (the word "butchery" came up quite a bit). So there ya go.
Daniel Craig's quite good though, although he's only on screen for about 15 minutes.
That's my tuppeny worth, then.
Mx

[gloriana]

I can understand your point of view Mark. I thought that the kids were pretty well cast and Lyra was just how I imagined her to be. I can understand the mixed reviews that the film received though.

[Bogatan]

Yeah I just saw it for a second time and honestly I can't decide how I feel about it. It looks fantastic and I dont have any problem with the cast, including the three main kids. Whatever problems I have with it are to do with the screenplay. Lyra character development moments seem to have been removed or turned into exposition. Worse still is that the fimmakers have completely removed any sense of mystery.

*Spoilers in Invisible text* well yellow text.....
All mention of Lyra's unknowing betrayal has been removed. I wonder if that is because the ending was taken out so those reference were taken out as well, in which case we might see them on a future special edition.

Dust is explained by various characters so there is no sense of Lyra's discovering the secrets. She also manages to realise that kids are not effected by dust somehow. there is no kid in the photo of the dust so its a pretty big leap of logic.


Its frustrating because discovering what is happening as Lyra does is part of the fun of the book without it it just watching a child travel from one situation to another.

On the other hand my brother actually walked out of the film last night because he was bored and it didn't make sense(well his friends were stumped) and my Dad who saw it today found it didnt make a huge amount of sense either.

So they have created a screenplay that spends too long explaining things to those who havent read the books without doing a very good job of it and have removed the most enjoyable elements of a fairly mature childrens book to make a very kiddie film with a big polar bear. Yikes! and thats without getting into the religious stuff which I wasnt referring to when I mentioned removing fun elements (creepy child abductor more of the Gyptians and most importantly Tony Markosis).

And yet I still enjoyed it. I just hope they get to grips with the next two better.

Andy

[kayevcee]

Gloriana- I think the bunch you are talking about upthread is the Westboro Baptist Church. Channel 4 did an expose on them last year I believe- there are literally about fifty of them in the whole 'organisation', every one of them mental as the day is long. They just get such massive media coverage because their actions are so shocking that the average joe on the street thinks there are thousands of them. Don't worry about prejudice with that lot- a man (or woman) is judged by their actions, and if your actions are those of a twat then as a twat is how you shall be known.

The Golden Compass has much going for it- a fantasy setting, zeppelins, Daniel Craig and talking(?) polar bears wearing armour. However, according to reviews here and on ever-useful Box Office Mojo, it sounds a bit naff. Directionless is a bad word to be using around a fantasy film, where strong characters and storytelling are the lynchpins of the whole thing.

I think we can expect a lot more films based on material with anti-religion themes in the future, especially since it's such big business at the moment. Case in point, The Da Vinci Code. I'll give you a hint- it's at number 25. From what I've heard, both the film and the book are a bit crap and if not for the religious controversy would never have made a blip on the public radar at all. As long as there's serious coin to be made by making reactionary types take to the street with placards, we'll keep seeing it.

-Nick

[legios]

kayevcee said:

Gloriana- I think the bunch you are talking about upthread is the Westboro Baptist Church. Channel 4 did an expose on them last year I believe- there are literally about fifty of them in the whole 'organisation', every one of them mental as the day is long. They just get such massive media coverage because their actions are so shocking that the average joe on the street thinks there are thousands of them.

Thats the thing with the media - they tend to give an airing to extreme views - especially when those views are from folk who are very loud. Essentially, the selection of those who make the most noise compared to those who are actually representative of any kind of constituency.

Directionless is a bad word to be using around a fantasy film, where strong characters and storytelling are the lynchpins of the whole
thing.

Fair to say that it wasn't a word I really wanted to see in that context. With a fantasy film you have to have a very clear idea of where you are going in order to move the audience along with you - especially when you are world-building. Because any lack of clarity from the film is going to cause the audience to start noticing (even subconciously) the sticky-tape that holds the world together.

I hadn't given much thought to going to see the film to be honest - mostly because I am only dimly aware of the book it is adapted from (Kids books haven't really been on my radar recently in terms of things for the "to read" queue). With the price of cinema tickets being what it is I am leaning towards giving it a miss unless I end up going with someone else. It isn't really on my "make a special trip for" list.

Karl

[Mark_Stevenson]

kayevcee said:

I think we can expect a lot more films based on material with anti-religion themes in the future, especially since it's such big business at the moment. Case in point, [url=http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/The Da Vinci Code.

[/url] I'll give you a hint- it's at number 25. From what I've heard, both the film and the book are a bit crap and if not for the religious controversy would never have made a blip on the public radar at all. As long as there's serious coin to be made by making reactionary types take to the street with placards, we'll keep seeing it.
[/quote]

Conversely, 'The Passion of the Christ' did rather well too, and there weren't really going to be too many Christians placarding about that one. Jews, on the other hand...
Make no mistake that the fundamentalist dollar is big, big, big.
*Backs away from uncomfortable subject matter*
Mx

[gloriana]

Interestingly enough, The Passion of the Christ is one of only three films I can remember that sent me to sleep. The 2nd installment of the Wesley Snipes as Vampire franchise and the Scorpion King did the same thing. Probably more to do with my friends taking us to the cinema at the ungodly hour of 10pm, than the actual content.

Of course the fundy buck is big, as is the pink pound and the silver euro (or whatever other metaphor we'll use for those particular socio-economic groups - got to love you, marketing). Niche is Nice as the saying goes. The point is that any film which goes against the WASPish "norm" of God-in-heaven, All's-Right-With-The-World/Church which is not obviously set in a galaxy a long time ago or far far away (cough) is going to get some form of pasting. It allows us to imagine the unimaginable. I don't suppose it matters too much when the SFX were that cool. And the book itself is so rich.

Edited because I teach Business Studies and ICT not English.

[rurudyne]

It wasn't set in a galaxy a long time ago or far far away enough for Lucas to not try to make money with a holiday special once (re: Star Wars "Christmas special").... Once.

If George Lucas — the man who gave us line-less bounty hunters so there would be more toys to sell — won't try to make money with it then you know it must be bad.

[gloriana]

Yeah well ... we never did get to hear what kind of holidays were celebrated in the Empire or the Republic. There goes my illusions of some things being sacred. At least the Vicar of Dibley did Easter specials as well....

[kayevcee]

We'll always have the Wookies' Life Day...

-Nick

[The Doctor]

Let us sing to the tree of life...

-Ralph