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Post by grahamthomson on Feb 20, 2009 11:15:25 GMT
Just imagine, for a moment, that Hasbro stopped producing new characters after 1986, but the Marvel comics kept on going and the stories were the same.
For fun, pick any post Target: 2006 story and replace the newer characters with original ones. Would the story still work? Did any of the newer characters actually provide something new that the original characters couldn't have done?
Also, pretend that none of the new TFTM characters didn't exist either. Like that bothersome Hot Rod.
I'll start:
"Ironhide's Story" (instead of "Kup's Story") featuring Cliffjumper and Windcharger (instead of Blurr and Hot Rod) and Ironhide (instead of Kup).
I think that one would work. Any others?
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dyrl
Empty
Transforming robots are no match for combat waitresses from the future!
Posts: 1,652
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Post by dyrl on Feb 20, 2009 12:05:51 GMT
Off the top of my head I can't think of any others right now - but I'm sure if I reflect on it a bit, then I will. However, this same question can be asked as "are any of the newer characters indispensable? Irreplacable by old characters? Absolutely necessary for the story to work?" Here - in a nutshell, is my list of newer characters without whom the story would not have worked: A) Scorponok The entire story arc involving Scorponok is quite complex and fascinating; and it would not have been possible with any of the older characters because Scorponok is bonded to Zarak and the conflict of the two personalities is key here - Zarak is moved by love for his daughter and an understanding of duty to his people to side with Skorponok - he is also jealous of Galen... and he merges with the cold brutal Skorponok and finds himself become more like the Decepticon - but then, towards the end, when the Unicron saga kicks into high gear, we see that Zarak takes the dominant role with human fear of death and a general confusion of purpose and destiny setting in. This dynamic was only possible thanks to the Headmaster process, and I think that even if you replaced Zarak with - say some equivalent human character, and Skorponok with your run of the mill brutal Decepticon (Skywarp?) - it would not have worked because the two would need to have been merged in the special way that the Headmaster process merges people. B) Galvatron Sorry to say this, but while there are plenty of "crazy" Decepticons who could have played his part from the older cast, none of them had the sheer power and endurance to withstand what Galvatron withstood and do what he did. C) Arcee: Because the alternative would be ...Bumblebee in drag? I dunno. We don't even have any remotely "gay" Autobots from the original cast to bring a bit of femininity into the story arc, let alone anyone who could be repainted pink to appeal to the female humans? Can you imagine: instead of: "we built Arcee to show women that we respect them" it would be "we gave Grimlock a pink paint job to show women we respect them?"  True, Arcee was marginal as a character in the comics - but no one could really fill her shoes; that is to say unless we were to liquidate the gender problem - which would be beside the point really... ---- On the other hand - the easiest ones to replace would be: 1) All Decepticon gestalts following Devastator: This would certainly have raised the Constructicons profile, made their combination power all the more unique and given them a much better story development (something the gestalts all lacked due to their sheer numbers) 2) Decepticons like Cyclonus and Scourge: Really - what was their point? Cyclonus was a loyal servant to Galvatron and pretty mindless in the comics. Almost like Skywarp. A throw away character who was thrown away for the greater good of the plot in Time Wars. And Scourge? Sure - he had an "important part" to play - but it had nothing to do with his character or personality as such, but just rather being "the other guy" in the right place and time (or wrong place and time as it were). Easily could have been Thundercracker. Only problem: How do you do a time travel story where you...don't...have any future characters? Well - I guess technically it could have been "future Megatron, Thundercracker and Skywarp" vs. "present Megatron, Thundercracker and Skywarp" --- and instead of Unicron, the big bad event of the future could have been...some really big bomb that would blow up Cybertron or what not... 3) Thunderwing: An absolutely pointless new character. Gnash roar gnash. I'm obsessed with the Matrix and generally a mad hatter. Not unlike Megatron, or Straxus, let alone their deranged combined self, let alone ...oh...say somebody like Starscream - who could easily have collected up a rogue squadron of Cons and made aquiring the Matrix his top priority as a ploy to destroy both Prime and Megatron...kind of like he did in G2 anyways...and then the Matrix could have been possessed by his evil energy but in the end it could have refused him...like it...did in G2... Hmm... Lots of fun combinations to be had. Certainly Transformers suffered from the "just throw this new character in to make it work" syndrome - but in a way that was the nature of the game... Pete |
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Post by grahamthomson on Feb 20, 2009 12:14:07 GMT
I knew this would get a good response from you, Pete!
I pretty much agree with all that you say.
Re: Cyclonus and Scourge. Despite what freeze-framing TFTM on DVD might show, I've always thought of them as Skywarp and Thundercracker respectively. Even the ending of Time Wars with Scourge saving the day makes a sort of sense if it's really Thundercracker.
Re: Arcee. She could be replaced easily, without the need of any "gay" (how can they be gay? there are no male Transformers!) or "in drag" (Drag Strip takes on a new meaning) Transformers. In "Space Pirates" her place could easily have been taken by the likes of Blurr or Kup. Rodimus Prime could (and should, even if he's half as compassionate as Optimus) have shown the same amount of affection/concern for any other Autobot.
I definitely think Devastator could have had a better role. But, come to think of it, outside their introduction stories, did we ever see the Special Teams' combined forms at all? Not even in the big battles with Underbase/Starscream did any of them get to combine!
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primenova
Fusilateral Quintro Combiner
Posts: 6,001
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Post by primenova on Feb 20, 2009 12:26:47 GMT
Target 2006
a altered form Megatron, Thundercracker & Skywarp travel back from the future after an assassination attempt on Megatrons life by Starscream & Soundwave in 2006. This would bring up an interesting aspect to the story when viewing the scene from #79. Also make the whole Starscream part of the story seem different.
to cover the autobots involved [are we classing Magnus as new? seeing he was in the past while the others where from the future] all in pretender like suits - or like in Kup spotlight.
Bumblebee, Ironhide, Sideswipe
Starscream released a virus -so why the con's in new bodies. While the Autobots are in suits to try & avoid changing history [with the fact that Hotrod & Co dont meet any other apart from Magnus in the story]
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Post by blueshift on Feb 20, 2009 12:57:45 GMT
"The Interplanetary Wrestling Championship!" Um, CLIFFJUMPER and the minibots (Beachcomber and Cosmos and friends) diss Optimus Prime and start up their own wrestling championship. But because he is a gigantic robot, Cliffjumper keeps accidently crushing his opponents. Luckily he is red so it doesn't show up. Cliffjumper uses the public spotlight his wrestling has given him to make spirited public speeches where he accuses everyone of being traitors. However the evil Sean Berger and his friends the Decepticon skyraiders decide to force Cliffjumper to throw a fight against Skywarp! However because Skywarp is like, three times the size of Cliffjumper and made of guns, it doesn't take much throwing. Cliffjumper is sad and gives up wrestling forever  |
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Post by grahamthomson on Feb 20, 2009 13:04:01 GMT
That, I would read. Though I would change wrestling to cliffjumping.
"The Interplanetary Cliffjumping Championship!"
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Nigel
Thunderjet
Posts: 4,967
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Post by Nigel on Feb 20, 2009 13:08:10 GMT
I don't think Optimus could have been permanently replaced as leader after his death. Without Powermasters there would have to have been another way to bring him back. There are Autobots who could have had stints in command - Grimlock, Prowl, perhaps Ironhide - but I don't see any long term prospects.
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Post by blueshift on Feb 20, 2009 14:10:01 GMT
Monstercon From Mars!
Thundercracker wanders onto a movie set and everyone screams in horror thinking he is a horrible monster. The film producer tells Thundercracker he is really impressed with how monsterously ugly he is and offers him a part.
Thundercracker agrees, but secretly cries every night in his dressing room.
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Post by grahamthomson on Feb 20, 2009 14:17:48 GMT
Wouldn't Swoop be better for that? I always heard he was upset about being ugly in dino mode. Awww.
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Post by blueshift on Feb 20, 2009 15:40:55 GMT
No Swoop is really pretty  |
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Post by grahamthomson on Feb 20, 2009 16:27:22 GMT
Swoop ain't got no alibi.
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Feb 20, 2009 17:03:48 GMT
Graham Thomson - quoting Daphne and Celeste lyrics..... I despair!
I think the Special Teams got pretty poor deals to be honest. Devastator started out well, and they showed he was flawed and it was even remarked upon prior to Second Generation. It would have been nice to have seen them do more.
Andy
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Post by grahamthomson on Feb 20, 2009 22:12:42 GMT
Dude, you recognised 'em!
I actually like what Furman did with the Special Teams in War Within, it's a shame it never went any further.
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Post by blueshift on Feb 21, 2009 2:20:19 GMT
Ring of Hate!
The biggest Autobot pacifists, Beachcomber, Groove and First Aid travel to the planet Nebulos in search of peace. The natives are a bit iffy so they pull off their own heads.
Since they have no particular Decepticon enemies, there is no need to re-head them. Beachcomber becomes playground equipment for little kids
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Feb 21, 2009 8:36:20 GMT
Matrix Quest could have featured just about anybody - spicing up the existing teams from Dinobot Hunt with the likes of Tracks, Powerglide and co. Prowl or Hound would fill Nightbeat's shoes.
City of Fear, etc. could have been told entirely with characters from the Smelting Pool saga (Springer/Impactor replaced by Blaster and a super-zombie Scrounge).
Transformers: The Movie would have been greatly improved with the following substitutions:
Hot Rod - Bumblebee (the original 'youth' figure)
Blurr - Windcharger (the fastest Autobot originally)
Kup - Ironhide
Perceptor - Wheeljack
Blaster - Jazz
Ultra Magnus - Prowl
Arcee - Hound (he likes humans, so would look after Daniel)
I would keep Galvatron, Cyclonus and Scourge. Having new Deceps but familiar Autobots makes the threat greater. It's having new Autobots and pretending they are established cast and deserve to be front and centre that I resented.
The Earthforce stories could have been told with characters from 1984-5. Oh, wait a sec...
Martin
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Post by blueshift on Feb 21, 2009 13:22:45 GMT
ARISE GOLDBUG?
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Post by The Doctor on Feb 21, 2009 17:00:45 GMT
I would pay money to read that.
-Ralph
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Post by grahamthomson on Feb 21, 2009 20:06:15 GMT
I don't think I could cope with all the Goldbuggery.
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True, Arcee was marginal as a character in the comics - but no one could really fill her shoes; that is to say unless we were to liquidate the gender problem - which would be beside the point really...
