The Adventures of the Donut Man

[The Doctor]

...and watch as he compares a young child to a donut around the 6min mark.



-Ralph

[Hero]

Duncan the Donut RULES.

[karla]

I thought it was going to be about Homer Simpson....but he became pie man now, I remember!!

[Andy Turnbull]

The program is pretty terrifying to be honest, all joking aside and is the sort of cynical and manipulative type of children's programming that should never be allowed to air. The idea of telling a child he is empty and sinful is deeply abhorrent. Yes if you wish to provide some substance and religous content tell him he can be better but don't come out with that sort of shit.

Andy

[Hero]

As a youth minister, I agree there in that programming should be about building up and promoting value rather than telling kids they're empty.

The Donut Repair Club I've seen a couple of times on the God Channel and on BEN and liked it as something to poke fun at since its a show from way back in 1993, funded by Dunk'N Donuts and very un 'PC'. The Duncan Puppet is cool, but The Donut Man himself is creepy indeed. I am surprised even the Christian channels are airing it. No way would I ever show that to any of my young uns from Friday youth group.

Why would a Donut need repairing anyway, and would a broken donut be enought to build up a club around? Vegetables are much healthier.

Not all 'religious' promgramming from any era is that bad. Stuff like Vegetales (watched the Movie last Friday with the kids and it went down well), and McGee & Me (which aired on CBBC) are pretty uplifting shows and not too preachy, preachy. Vegetales is pretty much a modern day Munch Bunch whilst McGee & Me is an artists fantasy of sorts.

For some Christian Cheese to have a chuckle or a cringe at, check out some Bibleman. Obviously don't take it too seriously since it will never be seen commercially outside the boundaries.

[karla]

hmmm what would I have my hole filled with....?

in Bolivia, they've completely changed the beliefs of the catholic church its so funny, and angel gabriel is incharge of all the demons but these demons help you find gold. They don't celebrate god or jesus much and thier focus is on The Virgin...who isn't called Mary as this belief was around before the spanish. They've also managed to squeeze in Mother Earth, whereas Brazil is very much focused on Mary and Jesus. My mother denies it of course, but she was from a rich morman family.
Its a shame they don't sacrifice anymore, I would love to visit sometime, stay with my great aunts and stuf....I may never come back

[blueshift]

I really really loathe things that push religious ideals on kids as 'fact' and 'truth', it is such a betrayal of trust I think.

That said, I never realised McGee and Me was religious!

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Mar 17, 2009 10:33:06 GMT blueshift said:

I really really loathe things that push religious ideals on kids as 'fact' and 'truth', it is such a betrayal of trust I think.

Have to say I disagree with you completely, Blueshift. It's what parents have done throughout the world since the earliest human societies. Only in recent decades have a significant number of parents started not passing on their religion to their children, and it has hardly coincided with a generation of better brought up offspring. So I struggle to see where the betrayal of trust is - I only see that when I see parents not concerned with influencing the moral values of their kids. Provided it doesn't teach hatred or intolerance of non-believers, and the family accepts it if the child decides it's not for them when they grow up - I think passing on religion - whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh or whatever - is a healthy thing. Better than not caring how they develop in their early years, at any rate.

And I couldn't actually find anything objectionable in that video either, as long as it is only broadcast to Christian audiences and not on a general TV channel where it would confuse children not being raised as Christians.

I think it was Indiana Jones who said archaeology dealt in fact and if his students wanted truth they should head down the hall to the philosophy class. I was raised a Christian and brought up in a Catholic school, and don't consider there to have been any betrayal of trust at any point in the proceedings. I'm glad I was - it hasn't damaged me in any way, I'm now a scientific adviser to the Government with a PhD and a full set of the works of Charles Darwin, and still go to church. But now I'm a very liberal Christian and I find truth in nearly all the religions I learn about. I've felt the presence of God in mosques, and think all religions get plenty of stuff wrong but also contain truths that you can't find anywhere else.

I think it's just our modern multicultural society that makes TV programmes like this one look wrong, because we see it through the eyes of our multicultural society where most children are not being raised in that way, and would be troubled if they found it on Children's BBC or whatever. But in the context of a Christian upbringing it seems fine to me.

Martin

[The Doctor]

Personally, I can never agree with the idea of telling a child they are sinful, in any way. I find it deeply repulsive. I think this programme is mostly harmless, though, it's so obviously OTT.

EDIT: I've moved this thread to 'Have Your Say' as some interesting points are being raised, if no one objects.

-Ralph

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Mar 17, 2009 16:27:23 GMT The Doctor said:

Personally, I can never agree with the idea of telling a child they are sinful, in any way. I find it deeply repulsive.

I would certainly find it repulsive if the man told the child that the child specifically was sinful - or indeed told the child that the child was more sinful than the man himself was. But I think it is quite right to teach children that we are all sinful, or, if raising them in a secular way, that we are all flawed and less than perfect, and incapable of being wholly good or perfect through our own merits. I think the worst acts in the world are carried out by those religious or secular individuals who have lost sight of their own failings and think themselves morally superior to and more worthy than those around them.

So whether the word sinful is used or some more secular form of words, I think it's important to teach children humility and to recognise their own moral failings - but at the same time tell them they are not alone but share those imperfections with everyone, and that we should strive not alone but together to achieve a higher ideal. Whether that higher ideal be one set by divine example such as Christ or some other concept of a better sort of person, the important thing in my view is to keep in mind that you will never achieve it in this life, but should keep getting back on the horse and trying nonetheless.

There is of course a school of thought these days that is afraid of damaging children's self-esteem - schools that have stopped using red pens for marking written work, and changed to less upsetting colours, etc. I don't mind if children aren't all taught morality through religion, but they should be taught right and wrong. The kid in the video who wasn't being nice to the younger kids had to be told it wasn't the way to behave one way or another. And saying, "You have been loved, so surely you should love others in your turn," is a reasonable argument to make.

Saying we are sinful but can have that hole filled by Jesus if we let him in is just the Christian language for saying we all have bad in us but can replace it with good if we keep in mind the ideal person we should aim to be like.

(Edit: changed "person we would like to be" to "ideal person we should aim to be like" since we'd probably all rather be wealthy, comfortable and oblivious to the hardships of the world than allow ourselves to be flogged and crucified for the sake of mankind...)

Martin