The Mother of TF Writers Block is...

[dyrl]

Continuity!!... or rather the lack of it.

I'm planning my next photo-comic out, and preliminary brainstorming has generally settled on the following:

a) Transformers Henkei cast

b) Plot focuses on three aspects - Octane providing fuel, Starscream's cynicism, the futility of good/evil dychotomy in war

BUT

I am finding my story smashed against the rugged shores of a continuity so mind bogglingly impossible to grasp, cope with or comprehend, that the banal suddenly becomes not just important, but so important that until it is solved - nothing can proceed!

What does this mean? Well - let me be concrete: What year is the story set in? Clearly, if Starscream is alive (and not a ghost), then it has to be pre-animated-Movie(86) - that is to say prior to 2005 in the TF continuity. All the more so if Megatron is leading the Decepticons.

BUT - while some Henkei characters are refreshingly accurate to their cartoon/comic namesakes - others take a tad too much license. Megatron, for instance - am I to presume that at some point between season 2 and the Movie he decided to become a chromed Nerf Gun instead of a walther P-38 pistol? And what about Onslaught and Silverbolt - their transformations are completely different. And their subgroups are gone.

This leads me to think about placing the action of the story in the future - post-return of Optimus Prime (who, by the way, also has to be alive for the story to work). But then the same question can be asked - when did Prime go from being a boxy truck with a trailer to being Henkei Prime; which is a variation of the G1 Prime, not a direct representation (like, say, Hound, Starscream, Cyclonus are).

Also, if I set it in the future, then Starscream would have to be DEAD! Arrgh!!

So, I resign myself to perhaps setting it in the universe of teh Henkei Manga - which are rather banal.

But this defeats the whole POINT of the Henkei line - I tell myself - because these are supposed to be the original characters from the original Transformers in more cartoon/comic accurate incarnations.

I know that Fun Publications did a comic where Classics appeared between G1 and G2 Marvel comics - but this is useless to me, since technically speaking, I'm not using Classics, I'm using Henkei! And besides, I'm going to have Henkei Ratchet in the story - and G1 Ratchet was seen disassembled and dead in the Fun Publications comic - and I don't feel like doing a retcon.

Speaking of retcons - a simple, nice story idea suddenly turns into a deep quest for understand Transformers continuity which is nerve racking.

I can't even write a simple story called "Huffer takes a poop in the bathroom" because I am not sure where the toilet is, what year it is, what the surrounding circumstances are... And I simply can't bear to craft a Transformers story that takes place in a vaccuum.

This is the result of abandoning any semblence of over-arching themes and continuity following Beast Machines. And yes, yes - I know the whole Unicron/Unitary/Multiverse theory. That's all swell and good - but am I to preface each story with "Somewhere in the Transformers Multiverse...."

Hm.

Wait.

That's not a bad idea!

That solves everything!

"Some where in the Transformers Multiverse..." - and then generally write what you want!

Yay!

I'm happy now. Whew.

Thanks for your help guys.

Pete

[Grand Moff Muffin]

You're welcome.

Alternatively, use time-travel.

Martin

[dyrl]

Yeah - I was thinking of using Time Travel what with Cyclonus and Nightstick being in Henkei - they were top Time Travelers from Time Wars, so definitely the thought has crossed my mind. But now I'm off to translate the Neon Genesis Evangelon comic I did and finally post it on the hub. Ever since I started working out every day, I've got tons more energy and creativity! Woo!

Pete

[charlesrocketboy]

Jun 27, 2009 10:35:39 GMT dyrl said:

I know that Fun Publications did a comic where Classics appeared between G1 and G2 Marvel comics

Actually, it takes place instead of G2. And Earthforce. And the UK strips didn't happen there.

You suck, Fun Pub.

[blueshift]

In regards to continuity, the TF canon is so vast and convoluted that unless it is for some official thing, I'd suggest just writing it as you want and don't worry about convoluted continuity explanations.

[Andy Turnbull]

Someone else usually comes along and does that for you!!!

Andy

[dyrl]

In regards to continuity, the TF canon is so vast and convoluted that unless it is for some official thing, I'd suggest just writing it as you want and don't worry about convoluted continuity explanations.

Well - this is good advise - but what is irritating is the details.

I have a scene planned in the Decepticon base. Now - question - WHAT base? The Underwater base from the cartoon? The Decepticon Fortress from the comics?

If I were using G1 toys for the comic, then the answer would be simple because the choices narrow to Marvel comic vs. cartoon.

But with Henkei toys... again - some of them would just actually look out of place in "G1 canon" - putting Henkei Megatron in the Underwater base when he bears little physical resembalence to the real G1 Megatron is hard to do...

It's wierd. Henkei was supposed to bring us G1 figures with modern articulation and finishes. In most cases it did that. But in some cases it just brought us a variation or commentary on G1 design... Prime is over-detailized and has those arm guards instead of proper smoke stacks. Megatron ...turns into a nerf gun and has his cannon on the lowe portion of his arm rather than upper...

To me - these problems present real difficulties in placing the character... unless we just suspend all belief/disbelief...

I'm sticking with my 'some where in the Transformers multiverse' answer - although it annoys me to no end that Hasbro has let things go like this.

But then again - there are actually people younger than me posting on my local forum here in Poland who HAVE NEVER HEARD OF G1!

Imagine. People would be like - "why does Henkei Powerglide have a heart? That's wierd. Transformers don't have hearts."

And they don't know that the original cartoon existed, much less that there was an episode called "The Girl Who Loved Powerglide."

It's astonishing - but the generational divide HAS begun.

I can only compare it to my total lack of knowledge of 70s super robot anime, or even most anime, before I started studying it. For me, the world began in the 1980s. So, when it turned out that there was all this great stuff and great transforming super robots from the 1970s - it was an eye opener...

Still - I guess Hasbro does have to keep the brand "fresh..."

I have to admit though, that sometimes it pains me to see how they've sacrificed continuity and story and basically made the Transformers about arche-types with constant names (Prime, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream etc).

It annoys me because seldom do these reboot series last long enough to make a meaningful impression.

Part of the reason why the UK comics and Furman's US run were so good was because there was like 4 years of continuity to build on.

Same with Japanese Headmaster and the other G1 series - whatever their failings - they built (however crazily) on what came before (especially Headmasters which is a great great 'crossing over' series between the 'old' G1 and the 'newer' G1)...

Stories like Matrix Quest in the comics or stories like Victory would just not be possible without a rich tapestry to build on.

Finally - look at what the fandom was able to accomplish when G1 stories (sorry Martin for using "G1" - I mean of course original Transformers, not DW) were few and far between, and when people thought it was the Second Coming whenever we got 1 second of Starscream in BW or 1 second of Soundwave in BM...

In that time period I read so much awesome fanfiction that to this day it is more memorable to me than the crap that has been produced after Beast Machines ended (which in retrospect WASN'T the worse series in the universe - because at least it to built on a rich tradition of characters established over three years in Beast Wars).

But here's my point: What do I remember fondly in terms of Transformers over the last few years?

It's not Armada/Energon/Cybertron.

It's Globequake, it's reading the Software Wars. It's taking part in that wonderful Whodunnit? where a new fan wrote a new chapter each time.

It's also War Without End by one Robert Powers (American fan, google "Pandimmensional Productions for the EPIC G2 continuation saga).

It's Neale Davidson's flawless Beast Wars trilogy which was masterfully interwoven in between the three seasons of the CGI program and told the story of how "Generation 1" becamse Beast Wars.

I also am fond of Beast Wars II and Neo - mainly because it really did nothing to HARM previous continuity.

But really - it was when Armada came out that Transformers started to die - at least for me, and I would risk saying "for my generation."

Nowadays, there are kids who LEARNED of Transformers from Armada first - and mainly from the cartoon, so forget about them having read something like Furman's "Worlds Collide."

For them - none of these problems exist; or at least the problems begin to exist with the Movie and with Animated...

The end result is, I think, a situation in which it's really not possible to be a Transformers "fan" - rather - you end up having to be a fan of a particular segment of the heritage of Transformers.

For me - that heritage is from the original cartoon/comic through Beast Wars (Neo/II as well).

I don't even much like Transformers Animated. I admit that it's a wonderful homage; that the designs are spot on in most cases - but ultimately it's nothing more than a nice homage. It's like reading Scifibertron or other Super Deformed Transformers comics - this is nice and funny and silly... but to make it the MAIN event?.. ultimately it just didn't sustain my interest.

And no wonder. All the characters I cared about I did so not on account of their ARCHETYPE - but on account of the path that their stories had taken. I love, for instance, Swindle. But Swindle is not just this great salesman/con artist who has a certain aesthetic. He's also a STORY with a deep history. So, seeing him in Animated (to use one example) was... just mildly fun - but in the end I knew it was just "some Swindle."

Maybe if Animated had gone on for 4...5 years - then yeah - I would have fallen in love with it.

But seriously - when was the last time we got a 3 season or 4 season show? Nowadays it seems that every year Transformers is Transformed and returns to point ZERO.

Every year we start over - we find a new way to get the Transformers on Earth and a new gimmick for them to fight over, and we run through the same rehashed plot line with the same character templates (albeit in new bodies) and the end.

And just when you start to care - they change everything again.

Pete

[blueshift]

A lot of it is the rose-tinted view of nostalgia though. If Hasbro had to work every new release into the exact same framework then it'll die a death.

We got a 'G1' looking Prime in Classics remember though. Okay it was a crap toy, but we got it. Also there's no way Megatron COULD have looked like his G1 version, since that would have been illegal. But we have a silver version, we have a G2 Classics Megatron tank, what more could we want!

Continuity is important, but it depends on context. If you're making a specific sequel (say, to the Marvel comics or IDW stuff) then you need to be careful. But if you want to just tell a story then it just has to feel right. Even from the start there's been so many divergent continuities (cartoon v comic for example, day one), that the tropes have become the important thing, not the fine details.

Also Armada was AMAZING. At least at the end

[dyrl]

Yeah - well - you're right. It's not a sequal, and the story itself is more about characters than about "history." Nothing particularly earth shattering planned - just a good character story focused on Octane and Starscream.

I guess it's like Ralph one wrote (IIRC) about Target: 2006 - when he was a kid, all the hackneyed explanations for the contradictions made perfect sense to him. I guess it was the same with me. I really don't see much of a contradiction between cartoon and comic - to me their bridge is the Transformers Movie, which was also published as a comic and the events of which are incorporated into the Marvel Comic - even if we just take the US comic alone, then in Rhythms of Darkness we see an acknowledgement (beyond The Quintesson Journal and the 4 part Movie comic) of the Movie's impact.

In my mind - all of the cartoon episodes could easily have happened AS WELL as the comic episodes because all of the cartoon episodes from seasons 1 and 2 were united in their always returning to the status quo at the end of each story. And this status quo always had everybody alive and well for the next go round.

Yes, there were the differences in the origin stories and the fact that you had Spike instead of Buster etc etc - and then when Pretenders and Headmasters and the like rolled around...

uh...

ok - you're right.

They were totally divergent

Heh.

I guess I worry too much. I need to chill out. It's just when I sit down to write a story, I like knowing what the ramifications are. But I guess with transformers - they're pretty loose...

Pete

[blueshift]

Also you couldn't have Unicron coming first in the comics, then in the cartoon. And Shockwave mysteriously switching between being a pussy and a badass, and the Dinobots origins, and quite a lot of the characterisation which was very different.

[dyrl]

Well - I was going to write back a bunch of stuff demonstrating how you could have all that, but then decided that would turn this thread into a continuity discussion/debate. If that happens eventually, I've got nothing against discussing it - but your post just goes to show the difficulty that I tried to pinpoint - which is writing Transformers stories given all of the impossibilities of getting a coherent history/time line established.

Now - this is fine if you're writing about obscure characters who hardly got any mention or characterization in the comics and cartoons and other later media. But, in my case, I'm writing about Starscream and Octane - and compelled (since it's going to be a photo comic) to use their Henkei likenesses.

If I were using their G1 toys, I would just set it prior to Transformers the Movie OR at some point within the comic continuity where both of them were alive and well.

But given that it's Henkei, I've got to suddenly account for Onslaught being a Swat vehicle, Powerglide being huge in robot mode and all these other variables...

The only plausible way of doing this is just - as noted - to preface it with 'Somewhere in the Transformers Multiverse' and leave it at that.

But - in the back of my mind - I feel that this is weak. It is sufficient - but it's week.

I dunno about Transformers dying if Hasbro kept things in continuity. I mean - given that originally it was claimed that the war had raged for 4 million years - you'd think that would be enough of a time span to really allow for lots and lots of new story arcs, characters and what not without having to start from scratch again with the same template of characters.

Proof enough of this are Masterforce and Victory. I mean - no Optimus Prime, no Megatron, and hardly any (although some are still there - even some of the first TFs) original characters - all new characters and often radically different settings - all made possible by the fact that by Headmasters, the show was telling a story about the future anyways, which gave them lots of wiggle room to take "history" where they saw fit.

Imagine if the Japanese had said - "Ok - now, with Victory, we'll call this red jet guy with the sword Optimus Prime, and that dragon will be Megatron. And those three cars that combine into a robot? That's going to be Prowl, Jazz and Hotrod. And the combined form is going to be Grimlock. And those Pretender dinosaurs? The Dinobots. And in episode 1 they crashland on earth...

And then in Masterforce - again - the generic names, and a "start over" story...

That would have been terrible.

I understand the need to keep the trademarks - but still - it is possible to do without having to reuse the generic names all the time and re-boot the story.

Oops.

Guess I went into continuity anyways...

But from the point of view of writing up a coherent story - it is difficult, and one is compelled to use extremely convuluted pretexts to set things up sometimes...

Pete