Swearing, is it offensive?

[The Doctor]

Yeah and people will often say something like : "Did you see the game? It was fucking brilliant!" but there is no sexual or angry connotation whatsoever.

-Ralph

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Oct 15, 2010 14:00:11 GMT The Doctor said:

I do sometimes say a toy is "shit" on this board but I don't think of it as swearing.

That's a bit different, because you are in effect comparing the appeal of the toy to the appeal of faeces. It makes some sense.

Unlike "I was in that shop...what do you call it....that....having sexual intercourse....ummm....HMV...".

Exclaiming "Jesus Christ!" (or Gee(z)/Cripes/Crikey/Criminy/Jiminy Cricket/Jeepers Creepers/Crying out loud) or "For God's sake!" (Golly/Gosh/Goodness, etc.) also makes some sense, as in appealing for sympathy to a higher being (whether one believes in it or not).

But exclaiming "Have sex!" when you stub your toe? Hmmm. It'll always sound ridiculous in my ears.

Martin

[Stomski]

And this is entirely where the problem comes in... I'm all for regional dialects and find them fascinating, however there's a reason why when you write online on this board you use a language which is likely different to when you're at the pub.

The danger comes when people assume that the language of their small culture is appropriate in every situation, especially bad when their language has evolved through negative* character traits. As long as people identify the fact that in order to communicate effectively with everyone we need to speak in an agreed common manner.

And that manner acknowledges that some words refer to things that are not polite to refer to, whether it be sexual in nature, racism or even on religious grounds. They may not be swear words, but in a similar nature would be discussing two girls one cup** whilst you were tucking in to some chocolate ice cream.


* OK, now we're getting into very subjective territory!
** do not google, nsfw. In fact, just don't full stop, regardless of whether you're at work or at home.

[The Doctor]

It may depend on cultural context. At the schools I went to we understood 'fuck' or 'shit' to mean 'to be really angry'. We had no clue about any other meaning until much later on. So to this day to say something like: "That's fucking awful!" means "That's dreadfully awful!" in my head rather than "That's have sex awful."

-Ralph

[Gav]

Oct 15, 2010 16:56:34 GMT Grand Moff Muffin said:

Oct 15, 2010 14:00:11 GMT The Doctor said:

I do sometimes say a toy is "shit" on this board but I don't think of it as swearing.

That's a bit different, because you are in effect comparing the appeal of the toy to the appeal of faeces. It makes some sense.

Unlike "I was in that shop...what do you call it....that....having sexual intercourse....ummm....HMV...".


But exclaiming "Have sex!" when you stub your toe? Hmmm. It'll always sound ridiculous in my ears.

Martin

I think it's fairly obvious that folk aren't referring to the act of intercourse when using that word in every instance. It may have stemmed from there, but like a host of other words, swear words have evolved to encompass quite a few different meanings.

Again it's not something I'd expect everyone to get, because as we've established - these things are largely to do with regional dialect and what's acceptable where you're from.

I think having swear words is healthy

[Deleted]

I think it all stems from our childhood. Our impressionable young minds find certain words very amusing and when we hear them once we start to copy the words and incorporate them into our own conversations up to a point where we get as used to saying the swear words as we do normal words.

When I was at school there were two factions. One faction were the do-gooders who either never swore or very rarely swore. We found the words amusing but knew from our strict parents that they were never to be used on a regular basis. I was one of these kind of people. The second faction are the back-of-the-class-mob who bully and irritate teachers and pupils alike. Their parents couldn't care less what they do after school or even after dark and as such they tend to swear more and more until they consider it to be normal.

[Gav]

I think that's a very broad generalisation, but I agree that can happen in some areas where these words are still treated with an odd kind of reverence. I think it's important to have these kinds of words that are somewhat taboo - for several reasons, but I think it's verging on snobbery to lump all folk who swear into some unintelligent, savage camp that can't comprehend their own language - just because you don't support the use of the words yourself. I suppose it's one of those things that some folks will never abide, while others don't see it as a big deal.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Oct 16, 2010 10:00:31 GMT Gav said:

I think it's verging on snobbery to lump all folk who swear into some unintelligent, savage camp that can't comprehend their own language

Oh, absolutely. I'm a snob when it comes to a number of things and I know it. But I can't help it if, for example, visually attractive women become unattractive to me as soon as I discover they're foul-mouthed (and/or not very articulate) - that's just the way I am.

Martin

[grahamthomson]

The origins of the term "fuck" were to strike someone (or something) with one's penis.

[blueshift]

Oct 18, 2010 9:28:41 GMT @grahamthomson said:

The origins of the term "fuck" were to strike someone (or something) with one's penis.

That's amazing

Was that act so common back in the day that it needed a special word?

[Gav]

It's a common act NOW!

[The Doctor]

That is priceless.

-Ralph

[Stomski]

I think it's only snobbish to disrespect another based on their word use alone.

If you see someone who is deliberately performing an offensive act when they know it's offensive (whether it be swearing or anything else), that shows that that person has gone out of their way to disrespect others, and that really does warrant disrespect.

I like to take the stance of holding everyone in positive regard, until they show me otherwise. And deliberately discounting other people's feelings is not a way for me to see you in a good light.

I guess this takes me back to the original thread on the other forum. One of the poll choices was "yes I swear at the poker table, but not in front of women", at least in that case they're considering that it might be offensive to some people and stop in those circumstances... even if the only circumstance happens to be based on a sexist assumption!

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Oct 18, 2010 9:28:41 GMT @grahamthomson said:

The origins of the term "fuck" were to strike someone (or something) with one's penis.

So women can't do it then.

Unless they are in legal posession of a man, I suppose.

Martin

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Just before eight o'clock on the Radio 4 Today programme this morning, presenter James Naughtie mangled "Jeremy Hunt the Culture Secretary" and then coughed his way through the headlines. When the Minister came on after the news, unsurprisingly he was interviewed by Naughtie's colleague, Evan Davies.

twitter.com/r4today says "Yes, your ears deceived you. Move along now, nothing to see here... 8 minutes ago via web".

However, a couple of minutes ago Naughtie came on and apologised for the Spoonerism because as well as a lot of e-mails appreciating the humour of it (it had me in stitches), there were also a lot of e-mails by people who had seriously not appreciated hearing that word on the radio at breakfast time. (Of course, it was an accident.)

I suspect it will be removed from the Internet playback version.

Martin

[blueshift]

There are some words like the c-word and n-word which I find offensive no matter the context, but usually swearing doesn't offend me, it is the context in which it is used that is offensive.

[Bogatan]

Reading through this thread what I just realised is that I'm not offended that much by swearing when the intent is to express anger or annoyance at some one or something. I generally don't swear excessively and mostly only if annoyed. I find I actually have to be careful about when I swear because especially people I work with hear me do it so little when I do they are often shocked by it, despite many of them swearing a lot.

But I am offended when I hear it inserted into a regular conversation every three or four words. I was on the bus a few weeks ago and behind me 2 guys were talking. The basic conversation was along these lines.

"I'm f***ing hungry, lets go to the f***ing chippie"
"I told the b***h the f***ing shut it"
"Is this the f***ing bus stop"

The reliance on fuck to hold any kind of conversation just drives me nuts. it just shows a complete lack of intelligence. No actually its worse than that it shows a complete lack wanting intelligence.

Since secondary school the only people I have ever met (and there have been far to many) that talk this way are the ones who struggle in school or cause trouble in school and then like to get beyond wasted as often as possible. I'm sure I'm being a snob about this and it almost certainly isn't totally their own fault as the swearing must be picked up from their family and then used in school because they want to show they don't care or want to show how cool they are, but by the time they are adults its so hard wired into themthat they can't stop themselves.

Andy

Edit I didn't realise we ont have the filter on so apologises if I didn't bleep out anything I should have.

[Gav]

Can't help but disagree that the use of swear words denotes a lack of intelligence. As I've said previously, even if it's something you've picked up from parents; it doesn't mean you have had a bad upbringing. It can be just as part of a language as any other slang.

Of course it's not acceptable everywhere, and it's definitely a prudent plan to limit swearing depending on your situation/company, but something about the notion of swearing = low intelligence just bugs me. I'll hold off on this topic in future methinks, gets me riled up.

[blueshift]

I casually swear way too much outside of work

[Bogatan]

Dec 6, 2010 13:42:52 GMT Gav said:

Can't help but disagree that the use of swear words denotes a lack of intelligence. As I've said previously, even if it's something you've picked up from parents; it doesn't mean you have had a bad upbringing. It can be just as part of a language as any other slang.

Of course it's not acceptable everywhere, and it's definitely a prudent plan to limit swearing depending on your situation/company, but something about the notion of swearing = low intelligence just bugs me. I'll hold off on this topic in future methinks, gets me riled up.

Sorry no offense intended I'm just talking about my own experiences.

As I said I don't think it is a lack of intelligence rather an unwillingness to use it or growing up in a situation that doesn't encourage it, I don't know, a mix of all three and other elements I suppose. And as you said its also a regional thing, I don't claim this is a universal truth, but in my area in the last 15 years I've come to my conclusions and it has never seemed like a cultural or slang thing. People from the same background at school as the worst offenders (most often from the cities various council estates) and the same gangs/groups at school didn't all swear, the difference always seemed to be those who had no ambition, the ones even at the age of 13 would spend their evenings drinking and doing drugs, who had the worst grades and showed no signs of thoughts of beyond school. I went to sixth form about 200m from my secondary school and the language improved radically in those 3 year. I went to university 3 miles away and for those 3 years again the amount of swearing was less. At the same time I was doing the supermarkets and pubs jobs and there I was still seeing the grown up versions of all the kids from school still swearing away. It's an impression thats not going to change quickly, not while the people I'm talking about are of such an uniform nature.

I'm not talking about anyone who swears, but people who just are incapable of stopping themselves. At school its the kids who would answer a teacher by saying " I don't f***ing know". I've been at group interviews when people have sworn throughout and then be complaining about how they never get jobs, who swear in front of other peoples children and that get angry when they are asked to mind their language. They either don't have the manners, the common sense (if trying to get a job for example) or they don't think.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Jim Naughtie was just unfortunate, but Andrew Marr's a bit of an idiot.

Martin

[The Doctor]

Working in social care backgrounds, I've found that many people from disadvantaged backgrounds/situations have learned to use swearing as a defensive tool and are usually pretty bright too. Often I have had conversations in such situations where both of us would appear to be extremely uncouth to an outside observer but it's honestly just the best way to communicate properly and show that I'm trying to interact with people at a level they find comfortable and natural.

-Ralph

[Shockprowl]

Yes, in my job also it is necissary to communicate with a particular individual in a manner they are most comfortable with. It's tricky.

[Deleted]

I don't mind swearing, but I know far too many people who just use swear words for every other word, and it just gets awkward

[Grand Moff Muffin]

Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn get censored.

In this instance I agree with the person who says "It's about a boy growing up a racist in a racist society who learns to reject that racism, and it makes no sense if the book isn't racist."

You shouldn't sanitise historic works to make them fit in with modern sensibilities, I say.

Martin

[Shockprowl]

I searched for a thread on swearing (instead of just starting a new thread)- and I found it! Big Phil will be pleased with me!



It recently occured to me how much some of my work chumbs swear. Not all of them, not most of them, but many of them. I myself do not swear much. At the very most I'll say 'damn', or something like that, but rarely do I say the real heavy hitters- and when I do it's in a mocking way, or to reproduce what someone else has said to me. I never swear at home obviously. But I've noticed that swearing, the 'f' word in particular, has become part of what many people happen to say in day to day life. 'f' this, 'f' that. As I say, not all my work chumbs do this, but many do. Is it a work based thing? I find it highly distasteful. Yet I've notice that when people say it, they don't really say it in an offensive way. That is, the 'f' word in particular appears to be loosing it's vulgarity with people, generally speaking. People use it as a general expressive, it no long shocks, it is no longer as offensive as it used to be to many people. It seems it's becomming an everyday word.

[Grand Moff Muffin]

I just find sexual swear words ugly and could do without hearing or reading them.

Mind you, taken literally, damning something / wishing someone or something to go to Hell is a much stronger thing than wishing someone or something to go and have sex with itself.

Martin

[Shockprowl]

Ha ha! Yes it is!

[Deleted]

I agree with South Park on this one. I'm not offended by swearing in fiction at all, so long as it fits with the characters who are doing it.

In real life I think people should try to refrain from swearing casually as the more you use the words the less power they have. When I swear it is to make a point. I use the words to elevate what I am saying. It shows when I seriously am pissed off, rather than just talking about things.

I also hate lazy and sloppy speaking, learn the actual meanings of the words you use, don't be Bill & Ted and just label any number of words as either Bad or Good and use at random.

[Deleted]

 aye you wouldn't hear me f@%$#n swearing