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Post by legios on Dec 19, 2010 14:23:01 GMT
Having discovered that the cinema in Falkirk was showing the 2D print of this I thought I would give it a whirl.
It was ok, certainly passed a couple of hours well enough but sadly not a patch on the original. It lacks the sense of wonder and a lot of the humour of the original. The tone is a bit darker, and even a bit melancholy in places, and it feels like it is trying a bit too hard to have weight. The fact that it rests a lot of that weight on the metaphor and actuality of the relationship between fathers and sons means that some of that falls a bit short for me. There are a few sequences that do feel a little constrained at times by the requirements of shooting for 3D (this isn't a huge thing, just a bit of a nagging sense occassionally). It also has an interesting idea that it half-commits to but is afraid to do anything with because it would drive the film in a direction that it isn't sure it wants to go in. It is an interesting idea but in the end it is made no more of than as a piece of convenient backstory.
On the bright side it does have some very nice set-pieces, manages to not fumble the ball on the obligatory light-cycle sequence, and Jeff Bridges knows the tone of every scene he is in. The production design is pretty good to - admittedly they have jetissoned the bright, 8-bit, colours of the original but the new vision of The Grid, seemingly made of glossy black plastic isn't a bad fit both with the modern view of computers and with the tone of the film.
A bit of a mixed bag really - not really satisfying as a sequel to Tron and doesn't stand quite far enough out of the crowd of tosh action movies to really contend for greatness. It is entertaining enough, and fairly watchable (apart from one minor character who made my teeth grate so much I thought I was going to need new caps at one point) but not perhaps able to live up to its predecessor.
Karl
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 19, 2010 14:31:20 GMT
I don't remember the original. Does it ever get shown on TV? I do seem to remember knowing that Bruce Boxleitner was in it.
I presume the new one is watchable without prior knowledge.
Martin
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Post by Andy Turnbull on Dec 19, 2010 14:32:01 GMT
Yes the original was shown on TV, a few times over the years.
Andy
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Post by legios on Dec 19, 2010 15:11:44 GMT
I don't remember the original. Does it ever get shown on TV? I do seem to remember knowing that Bruce Boxleitner was in it. I presume the new one is watchable without prior knowledge. Martin Bruce Boxleitner was indeed in the original, and has a role in the sequel as well. Yes, the new one does enough to fill you in on the bits of the backstory that you need to know to understand the new one. I would think so at least. Karl |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 19, 2010 17:18:12 GMT
I would hope so, given the curious decision not to re-issue the original in home video formats as a tie-in.
I want to see this in a cinema if possible (I suspect it will work best there and the marketing has been little more than 'This is a sequel to Tron' so I don't expect a story), but the local place is only showing it in 2-D in mornings and lunchtimes when I'm working. There is another cinema in the city centre with more showings but I may not be able to make it due to work and general weather madness.
-Ralph
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 19, 2010 17:52:33 GMT
I shall hopefully spend tomorrow in town, and will try to see this (in 3D). The rest of the day I hope to spend sitting by a top floor window in the central library overlooking the city whilst reading a sustaining book. We are forecast for more light snow, which should look pretty from on high.
Martin
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Dec 19, 2010 22:20:44 GMT
Saw this yesterday and thought it was a bit light in terms of story but was enough there to push it along for the length of the film. Would agree with Karl though that it kept verging on a great idea but never totally running with it. Definitely one to be seen (and enjoyed) on the big screen. The audio and visuals are beautiful in many ways actually. I'm currently reading a book in 'Apocalyptic AI' discussing the social implications and religious parallels of transhumanists and the idea of uploading human minds to virtual environments. Was interesting to see a reversal of that in this film with the virtual characters wanting access to the real world not in order to not simply 'upgrade' to a heavenly realm, but to enforce/create their vision of heaven in our world. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 20, 2010 18:23:30 GMT
I liked how they only switched to 3D for the scenes in the virtual world and kept the real world in 2D. Reminiscent of 'The Wizard of Oz' which kept the real world black and white.
Like 'Avatar' worth watching primarily for the spectacle, and probably not worth watching except on the big screen.
Martin
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Hero
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Post by Hero on Dec 21, 2010 9:12:12 GMT
I thought the real world in Wizard of Oz was in sepia. Must check  Original Tron on DVD is £2.99 on Play.com I think. Well it was a year ago when I got my copy anyway. Curious about the de-aging of Jeff Bridges for Evil Flynn in this one. I may sadly have to wait for the DVD release since I am still spending a lot of time at home adjusting to fatherhood and alternating between conscious time-zones. |
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 21, 2010 18:07:49 GMT
The original Tron DVD is out of print and now goes for silly money, unfortunately. As for Legacy, 2-D showings just aren't at time I can go at local cinemas so I will have to wait for the DVD.
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 25, 2010 23:21:26 GMT
Ah! As I am unexpectedly in Edinburger tomorrow I can go see it. There is only one 2-D showing, at the shit time of 11:10am!
-Ralph
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 26, 2010 15:26:14 GMT
I really enjoyed it!
Yes, it avoids an interesting story about the nature of creation and Gods at every opportunity in favour of a father/son plot so hard I was getting whiplash at points but the actors put in a good shift* so I didn't mind. The visuals are spectacular. I really felt I was being shown another world. Some of it was genuinely gobsmacking. Music worked very well with it too.
Not a patch on the original but overall I had a great time watching it. It also has two splendidly hot chicks and nice to see Bruce Boxleitner again.
In other news, it feels deeply wrong to come out of a cinema at lunchtime.
-Ralph
*With the notable exception of award-winning actor and critics darling Michael Sheen, who has sadly done the luvvie thing of 'It's only SF so I won't take it seriously' shtick.
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Dec 26, 2010 17:04:40 GMT
In other news, it feels deeply wrong to come out of a cinema at lunchtime. It's my time of choice. I like a mostly empty auditorium. Martin |
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Post by bertie on Dec 26, 2010 19:30:02 GMT
I think it was Martin who put me onto this after suggesting it here. I like early showings and empty auditoriums now too.
Just get up and mooch down to the cinema. Nice and easy. No queueing, cheaper tickets. Then once the rest of the town has it's act together, do a bit of shopping and go for lunch.
Elliott.
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Post by The Doctor on Dec 26, 2010 20:42:45 GMT
Generally, going to the cinema is something I like to do of an evening.
-Ralph
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Post by Cullen on Jan 14, 2011 10:50:58 GMT
Saw it last night at the iMax and loved it, the imagery and the music particularly. As a programmer myself I really connect with the world of Tron. Having said that I could have happily watch it without the voice track - the pumping soundtrack and the visuals were 99% of my enjoyment. The story and acting were good enough to string it all together.
I haven't seen the original for ages - I must track it down as I could barely remember the plot (other than 'man goes into the computer, has an adventure').
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 21, 2011 0:02:12 GMT
Knowing I would see this at cinema (though I only finally managed tonight for its final showing) I recorded Tron while it was on Sky Anytime back in October or November and tonight finally watched (first time since the early 90s at least) it right before going out to see Legacy.
Its remarkable how well they link together. When theres 28 years between films I don't expect them to join together and feel like they are telling more or less the same continuing story.
The visuals are great though part of me couldn't help feeling that if I was trying to create a perfect world it would look a lot more like the grid in the first film. Not because it looked nicer as such but it seemed more ordered. I made the same positive comparison to Oz as Martin in regard to the use of 3d and on the whole didn't even notice it which is a really good thing to me. It should rarely be any more noticable than the editing, direction, acting or any other individual element. So far too many directors (or more likely studios) don't agree with me. They should.
Andy
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 21, 2011 1:47:19 GMT
I watched the original before going to see Legacy too. I still don't understand how the Wilde lady comes out of the computer at the end of Legacy. In the first movie they establish that something had to be broken down by the laser thingy before it could be reassembled, but she seems to be made out of nothing. Unless they used Kevin Flynn's bits seeing as he didn't come out of the computer. |
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Post by Grand Moff Muffin on Jan 21, 2011 5:16:07 GMT
I still don't understand how the Wilde lady comes out of the computer at the end of Legacy. In the first movie they establish that something had to be broken down by the laser thingy before it could be reassembled, but she seems to be made out of nothing. Unless they used Kevin Flynn's bits seeing as he didn't come out of the computer. Yes, I was curious about that. Almost makes the machine a magical person-creating technology, doesn't it? What else could it create? High-tech vehicles? Martin |
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 21, 2011 14:55:13 GMT
The magical-person creation aspect is a logical way to lead into the inevitable Tron 3 (currently made $329,519,170 and still in theatres so there will be another one no doubt).
-Ralph
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Post by Bogatan on Jan 21, 2011 18:15:51 GMT
I suppose creating a way of digitising a person in to the grid is the hard bit. Creating a digital person that can be sent out into the world would have its challenges, but is hard to see as impossible especially once it has begun creating its own lifeforms.
Andy
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 26, 2011 18:54:46 GMT
My mind boggles that Tron Legacy did not get an Oscar nod for visuals (rarely have I felt so immersed in another world in recent big-screen offerings) but it did get a nomination for sound editing. Hurrah.
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Jan 26, 2011 20:30:35 GMT
My mind boggles that Tron Legacy did not get an Oscar nod for visuals (rarely have I felt so immersed in another world in recent big-screen offerings) but it did get a nomination for sound editing. Hurrah. It was certainly one of the most solidly constructed visual experiences I have had. Everything looked very plausibly like it came from the same aesthetic influences (harder to do than you would think, you usually end up with one or two things that just don't seem to belong along with all the rest). Good to hear about the sound editing nomination though. I suppose creating a way of digitising a person in to the grid is the hard bit. Creating a digital person that can be sent out into the world would have its challenges, but is hard to see as impossible especially once it has begun creating its own lifeforms. Except that it seems at first glance to violate several very important physical laws. If you squint a bit you can handwave the idea that Flynn-Junior is reassembled from the atoms that were originally dispersed when he was digitised, rebuilt the same way from the same stuff (Unlikely, but within the bounds of reasonable handwavium). Creating an entirely new physical body for a digital person appears to involve the laser getting new atoms from nowhere obvious It not only stares down the laws of thermodynamics quite determinedly but would also function as the mother of all rapid prototyping systems at the very least. In fact, with Flynn's laser and plenty of juice you could probably create a post-scarcity economy (if all you need to create anything is one of those laser rigs and enough power then you just punt one into orbit and use it to create solar power satellites until you have the power problem licked, then just make loads of everything else). Typical Flynn, got so fascinated with the ISO's that he missed the world-changing miracle that he already had in his basement! (Of course, all this speculation is somewhat irrelevant as science is about as relevant to Tron:Legacy as computers really. I.E, not that much. But if the toys are left lying about I am always tempted to play). Karl |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 28, 2011 15:49:28 GMT
Well, if information is the underlying structure of reality that the universe is bound to assemble it self from, appearance of digital woman lady is just plonking information from one manifold into another and the universe takes care of the rest........
*waves hands - frantically*
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Post by blueshift on Jan 28, 2011 16:07:36 GMT
If you can turn a person into purely digital data and then reconstruct them, there's no reason why you can't do that with just digital data as a starting point, as long as it is in the same format.
In the same logic, there's no reason why the transporters in Star Trek can't be used to instantly clone an army using a person's data that it reconstructs them from.
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 28, 2011 18:38:34 GMT
She is able to go to our world because she is a lovely looking lass. That is why.
-Ralph
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Post by legios on Jan 28, 2011 21:01:04 GMT
Well, if information is the underlying structure of reality that the universe is bound to assemble it self from, appearance of digital woman lady is just plonking information from one manifold into another and the universe takes care of the rest........ *waves hands - frantically* Actually that works - takes care of all my thermodynamically based objections (unless you invoke some sort of law of Conservation of Information, which is not a necessary or automatic adjunct of that kind of model). In the same logic, there's no reason why the transporters in Star Trek can't be used to instantly clone an army using a person's data that it reconstructs them from. Which is why some of the nonsense spin-offery books exhaust themselves explaining how the Transporter doesnt really reconstruct the person from just any matter but actually sends the atoms that made them up originally somewhere else and then puts them back together like a Space-Airfix kit. Instead of just saying it can't because. Which is quite enough detail for the general audience, and about as much as they really, and rightly, care about. Karl |
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Post by Fortmax2020 on Jan 29, 2011 0:33:21 GMT
Actually that works - takes care of all my thermodynamically based objections (unless you invoke some sort of law of Conservation of Information, which is not a necessary or automatic adjunct of that kind of model). The interaction between the Grid and our universe indicates neither is a fully closed system to the other so even a Conservation of Information law would only be net across the two and thus allow localised repositioning of information within the total. Hmm. I wonder what effect her appearing in this world might've had on the Grid (other than just her vanishing) as the energy to construct her physical nature must've come from somewhere even if the organising principle was in principle transferable. Presumably it removed some form of energy from the Grid to do so. I'm going to bed. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 29, 2011 12:34:16 GMT
If you squint a bit you can handwave the idea that Flynn-Junior is reassembled from the atoms that were originally dispersed when he was digitised, rebuilt the same way from the same stuff (Unlikely, but within the bounds of reasonable handwavium). This is what is established in the first film when they digitise the apple and then rebuild it. |
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Post by legios on Jan 29, 2011 23:26:54 GMT
The interaction between the Grid and our universe indicates neither is a fully closed system to the other so even a Conservation of Information law would only be net across the two and thus allow localised repositioning of information within the total. Hmm, the Grid as pocket continumn as a closed-bubble subset of the universe with a pinvh-point entrance-exit, that makes perfect sense. Also, appropros of nothing, I am going to have to buy the soundtrack - after hearing it out out of context and realizing that one track is a perfect reveal for the Zentradi Fleet - a "milliion ships" moment - and another feels like a perfect Tiger's Claw reveal in a not-hoplesssly-broken Wing Commander film. I.E thet is is an infinitely repurposeful soundtrack (like the soundtrack to the first Transformers film really.) Karl |
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